Coral Boring Spionid Worms- Anybody Killed them?

[Reefahholic]

These turds have survived Bayer, Coral RX Pro, KCI, and Exodus dip.

They apparently retract into their tubes, and back into the coral skeleton where they apparently are safe from the medications.

Below I will post some pictures for reference. The first pic is mine, but the others are just random pics I found so forgive me if this is one of your pictures. I would give photo credit, but I do not remember where I got them. I am still unsure exactly what these are, but the picture that has the red circle is for sure what I have in a few corals. I’m not completely sure that all these pics have the same exact species, but it looks pretty close. When I first noticed mine, they were at the base of the coral in the first pic. They formed several like brown spikes or tubes. I broke them all off, and instantly dipped that coral in Bayer and Coral RX. Thought for sure I got them only to see them come out 3-5 days later. So I fragged the LT branch off that frag and remounted it. So far so good and it’s encrusting the rock. Has good color. Hoping I fragged it high enough.

If you know a medication or treatment that will smoke these guys, please post up. Some of my corals basically started to grow slower, and will probably quit progressing all together. I believe they basically stunt the growth over time and in some cases kill the host coral. Likely a slow death and one of those corals that sits and just doesn’t grow or do well.

They appear to put out the two tentacles as filter feeders. IDK. Anyway, I have that first frag on the plug to test with so let me know.

 

[Rubymoon286]

Ivermectin for The Removal of Spionids

Summary: Ivermectin paste (1.87%) was successfully used to remove Spionid worms from an infested acro. Context: At the time of the trial, the acro was already so heavily infested with spionids that the likely hood of survival was already extremely low. The acro never showed any polyp...

www.reef2reef.com

This person used ivermectin which I've not used before, but it seems to have been pretty successful during the dip though I didn't see a follow up on if it kicked the entire infestation.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

I’ve heard of people having success with Interceptor, Ivermectin, and Bayer - since yours survived Bayer, you’ll probably want to try the other options (you’ll likely need a longer exposure time to the meds than a dip would allow, so you’d likely need to treat it in a QT; it might be some species are more resistant to the dip, or they might just have an operculum they can block the dip out with, I’m not sure).

You can't scrape them off (the are literally bored into the coral skeleton, they're not just sitting on the outside of it), but if they are only on that one coral you can try to treat that coral by itself in a separate hospital tank using Interceptor, Bayer, or Ivermectin (please do not use these in your main tank, they will cause you problems):
The link I posted above can give you an idea of what people have tried to do to deal with (unsuccessfully, for the most part).

Edit: just to add, be careful using any of the above medications, and figure out how to dispose of them appropriately before disposing of them.

Some thoughts on Ivermectin use:

I was going to suggest ivermectin but you won't be able to keep inverts (shrimp, crabs, pods) for 6-12 months as it is THAT toxic. Ask me how I know ...

If milbemycin doesn't work, set up a small temporary tank and try ivermectin. You can buy it off Amazon, so it's readily available.

I would only use ivermectin external to the main tank, and that would require three external tanks: one for treatment, one for rinse, and one for decontamination with a lot of activated carbon. It is extremely toxic to all inverts (except corals) in minuscule doses. I also bleach any water containing ivermectin to try to chemically neutralize it prior to disposal, as its environmental half life is very long (e.g. don't just pour your waste down the drain).

Coral Boring Spionid Worms -- an ugly bane to SPS

This is not something I've ever seen before. They are extremely ugly. Mar the appearance of SPS. This is on a "Beach Bum" encrusting montipora. I would take aphasia or even montipora eating nudibranchs over this crap. I've beat those with hard work. Not sure how to eliminate these without...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Reefahholic]

Ivermectin for The Removal of Spionids

Summary: Ivermectin paste (1.87%) was successfully used to remove Spionid worms from an infested acro. Context: At the time of the trial, the acro was already so heavily infested with spionids that the likely hood of survival was already extremely low. The acro never showed any polyp...

www.reef2reef.com

This person used ivermectin which I've not used before, but it seems to have been pretty successful during the dip though I didn't see a follow up on if it kicked the entire infestation.

I’ll reach out to him now. Thx!

 

[Reefahholic]

I’ve heard of people having success with Interceptor, Ivermectin, and Bayer - since yours survived Bayer, you’ll probably want to try the other options (you’ll likely need a longer exposure time to the meds than a dip would allow, so you’d likely need to treat it in a QT; it might be some species are more resistant to the dip, or they might just have an operculum they can block the dip out with, I’m not sure).


Some thoughts on Ivermectin use:

Coral Boring Spionid Worms -- an ugly bane to SPS

This is not something I've ever seen before. They are extremely ugly. Mar the appearance of SPS. This is on a "Beach Bum" encrusting montipora. I would take aphasia or even montipora eating nudibranchs over this crap. I've beat those with hard work. Not sure how to eliminate these without...

www.reef2reef.com

Anybody know a good starting dose for ivermectin? I have a frag to play with right now. @bexlc

 

[Reefahholic]

OK, I FINALLY ID’ed the ones that I have. They are “Boring Spionid Polychaete worms.” In the paper below, “Of 656 corals examined, 218 (33.2%) were infested with boring spionid worms.” Furthermore, they concluded that “high abundances of coral-boring polychaetes have been reported in other reef areas close to organic waste discharges. we conclude that anthropogenic nitrogen enrich- ment of waters surrounding coral reefs at Eilat may have caused corals to become vulnerable to infestation by boring spionid polychaetes, resulting in coral skeleton aberrations and increased susceptibility to damage by storms.”

Here’s the paper:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/David-Glassom/publication/233497635_Patterns_of_polychaete_worm_infestation_of_stony_corals_in_the_Northern_Red_Sea_and_relationships_to_water_chemistry/links/54d31b550cf2b0c6146cd279/Patterns-of-polychaete-worm-infestation-of-stony-corals-in-the-Northern-Red-Sea-and-relationships-to-water-chemistry.pdf

 

[Reefahholic]

Also, I did a 1 Hr dip tonight with Bayer. I used a strong dose of 60 mL’s- (3) of the 20 mL syringes below to 500 mL tank water. I didn’t break any of the tubes this time just to see if they will tolerate it. In a week if they did make it (I suspect they well) I will try Ivermectin next.

The markings are apparently off. Looks like I added more than 60mL.

After the dip:

Only 3 pods came off. HaHa

They are under the encrusted base of a staghorn, but it is thriving. They are also on the encrusted base of a red planet, but it’s also thriving. However, the worms that have bored into the coral skeleton itself- those corals are growing much slower or stunted. Out of 6 corals that have worms…4 are growing slowly or stunted, and the other two I mentioned above are thriving. So it appears that once they get into the coral skeleton, the coral will decline over time and possibly die a slow death. Some may survive, but I suspect they will never really do as well as the other corals.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

OK, I FINALLY ID’ed the ones that I have. They are “Boring Spionid Polychaete worms.”

Just for clarification, Boring Spionid Polychaete Worms are boring (i.e. they bore into things like rocks or corals) worms from the taxonomic order Spionida in the taxonomic class Polychaeta; so it's not a terribly specific ID, but the paper you linked is a good one. I don't recall if I've read that specific paper or just a similar one before, but either way it's got some good info in it.

 

[sculpin01]

Anybody know a good starting dose for ivermectin? I have a frag to play with right now. @bexlc

2 cc of the 1% solution per 2.5 gallons for 1-2 hours.

 

[Reefahholic]

2 cc of the 1% solution per 2.5 gallons for 1-2 hours.

Thx! Have you tried that one before? How hash is it on Acro’s you think?

 

[Dr. Jim]

I used Ivomec 1% at 2-4 ml per 30 gal for 6-8 hrs to get rid of Bearded Fire Worms and that dosage stunned many types of worms including spaghetti worms, bristle worms, and the Fire Worms. I'm not sure if that low dosage would kill the spionids but it might stun them to the point where you could pull them out or maybe a slightly higher dosage would kill them. That dosage scaled down would be about 0.1 ml per gallon for a dip. If it was me, I'd probably start with about 0.5 ml per gallon and work my way up if it didn't work.

 

[chenwon54]

You’re not going to like it but the dremel is your best friend with them. You will want to use the tiny burr or drill bit attachment; and be sure to wear gloves and safety glasses. Nothing kills them. Bayer, various dips, interceptor, ect always leave half or more alive. They can spread to plague like proportions quickly. Bumble bee snails do seem to eat them but they replicate faster than the snails can mow them down. You can glue their tubes shut but I’ve had poor success with that method. They tend not to bore into rock like coral which makes it easier to remove from rock. But once they get out of hand; they are happy attaching to anything really; Pumps, plumbing, coral, glass, rock, sand, snails, crabs, ect. So far the most effective is physical removal. I am unsure of which spinoid sp I’ve been dealing with but I would assume they are somewhat similar.

 

[Savoury]

@Reefahholic Any updates in getting rid of them?

 

[SuthernReefer]

Bump. I just discovered these on montipora. Ordered some Ivermectin, but wondering if I should just trash the coral

 

[sculpin01]

Bump. I just discovered these on montipora. Ordered some Ivermectin, but wondering if I should just trash the coral

I would consider trashing the affected parts and making frags of whatever is unaffected.

I use ivermectin as a biosecurity agent for my big system but it requires a lot of care and preparation to use. Frags go into a dip container with ivermectin, then to a fresh sea water wash container, and then into a holding tank with a ton of activated carbon for 24 hours. All this is to make sure no ivermectin gets into the main system. If it does get in there, I will know it quickly as my snails, crabs, shrimp, and pods will die rapidly.

After all of that, the ivermectin dip water gets a bunch of clorox dumped into it and sits for several days prior to disposal. Pouring un-cloroxed ivermectin down the drain will lead to poisoning of local waterways as it has a very long half life (>200 days) and is toxic to all manner of things.

 

[Reefahholic]

I used Ivomec 1% at 2-4 ml per 30 gal for 6-8 hrs to get rid of Bearded Fire Worms and that dosage stunned many types of worms including spaghetti worms, bristle worms, and the Fire Worms. I'm not sure if that low dosage would kill the spionids but it might stun them to the point where you could pull them out or maybe a slightly higher dosage would kill them. That dosage scaled down would be about 0.1 ml per gallon for a dip. If it was me, I'd probably start with about 0.5 ml per gallon and work my way up if it didn't work.

Which 1% ivermectin are you guys referring to? I have 3mg and 12mg pill form. Can you plz post a pic of the product you used so that I can do the conversion. Thx!

 

[Reefahholic]

2 cc of the 1% solution per 2.5 gallons for 1-2 hours.

Which 1% ivermectin are you guys referring to? I have 3mg and 12mg pill form. Can you plz post a pic of the product you used so that I can do the conversion. Thx!

 

[Reefahholic]

There’s typically 1,10, 20 mg/mL of the liquid form. Can you guys see if your bottle states which potency you have.

 

[Reefahholic]

I may just start with 3mg per 500mL of tank water for 30 min, and see what happens.

 

[Reefahholic]

Well, that was an epic fail.