cycling new tank

[thoughtknot]

I've been cycling my new 10 gallon tank for about a month, i have been using Dr.Tims one and only and doing 10-20% water changes about every other week. i cannot seem to get the ammonia down its been constantly at 8ppm i am running Live rock and a HOB Fluval Aquaclear 50 aquarium power filter with biomax ceramic rings and carbon. is there any way to lower ammonia without disrupting the cycle. Thanks in advance.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

What source of ammonia did you start with? Are you still adding ammonia? Do you have a powerhead in the tank? A tank pic is always helpful. Which test kit are you using? What are the nitrite and nitrate levels?

 

[brandon429]

consult a cycling chart: at one month you're cycled. you're using test kits that if searched, shows 8 ppm ammonia (falsely) in matured and stocked reef tanks. your cycle isn't stuck. simply do a full water change and you're done, cease using any testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate here since they're not calibrated digital kits you're using it's causing false delays.

change water, don't retest, you're cycled, because there are no cycling charts with an ammonia drop taking longer than ten days. if you searched your brand test kit, you'll see it in the lowest trustworthy status of any test kit in reefing is the bet. that's why I didn't inquire about params from you beyond ammonia: it's all from the same misread kit. I developed testless reef tank cycling exactly for this recurring problem in public reef tanks-there isn't a cycle problem at all. you're doing a full water change because that's easy in a nano and it exports the things that make your test kit misread and starts the system with fresh clean water, but lined on all surfaces are the filter bacteria that you don't have a reliable method to test. thankfully we don't need to test at 30 days wait, the charts have it done for us already. they're time based charts/ all cycling charts are time-based and you can solve for the param using the time axes on the charts.


you can't not be cycled by day 30 on dr tims using any approach.

 

[thoughtknot]

i havent added any ammonia the fish person at my LFS told me to put some damsels in to help the cycle and they ended up dying, this was about two weeks ago. my live rock is currently in a bucket with saltwater as it smelled like something died. I am using the API master saltwater test kit, but am looking into getting the hanna saltwater set pretty soon.

 

[brandon429]

its time to put the live rocks into the tank, with all new water matching temp and salinity to the old water, and then reef onward without running those tests again. your issue now is fish disease preps, cycling is done by 30 days if you had rocks in water this whole time w bottle bac

to get the proper steps for disease preps, fallow and quarantine, must self-study in the disease forum several day's worth of reading.

 

[Dmmz]

I would recommend doing more research before adding any fish to the tank. It is sad that people are saying to cycle the tank with fish still since there are a lot better ways to get it done without having fish die

 

[Garf]

i havent added any ammonia the fish person at my LFS told me to put some damsels in to help the cycle and they ended up dying, this was about two weeks ago. my live rock is currently in a bucket with saltwater as it smelled like something died. I am using the API master saltwater test kit, but am looking into getting the hanna saltwater set pretty soon.

Is that a bird cage, or a rodent house perhaps? Did you put the rocks in, then take them out after a while?

 

[brandon429]

anytime I get shown a pic of a reef with no rocks in it, I know something atypical is up. even if there was no ammonia debate here, like there always will be when API is the kit, inputting damsels is a huge uronema risk which permanently ruins the setup if it gets in. that's not even considering ich/crypto and a host of other contams instantly put into this new tank already

disease is the risk

we haven't even discussed acclimation, which isn't likely by the book here at all, because that's what old cycling science does: refuses anything as a causative but ammonia. plopping sick damsels into a tank also can be dangerous to damsels if the salinity rise is a large degree. I'd expect a lfs housing damsels to practically sell them in freshwater to avoid the hassles at the store of the diseases manifesting.

there are too many variables to pinpoint here.

time to put the rocks into the tank, change out all the water, never run those kits again, stock with corals and CUC but not fish. you'd stock with fish after several days reading in the disease forum, covering acclimation and fallow and quarantine.

 

[thoughtknot]

Is that a bird cage, or a rodent house perhaps? Did you put the rocks in, then take them out after a while?

I took them out because they started to smell like something died

 

[thoughtknot]

anytime I get shown a pic of a reef with no rocks in it, I know something atypical is up. even if there was no ammonia debate here, like there always will be when API is the kit, inputting damsels is a huge uronema risk which permanently ruins the setup if it gets in. that's not even considering ich/crypto and a host of other contams instantly put into this new tank already

disease is the risk

we haven't even discussed acclimation, which isn't likely by the book here at all, because that's what old cycling science does: refuses anything as a causative but ammonia. plopping sick damsels into a tank also can be dangerous to damsels if the salinity rise is a large degree. I'd expect a lfs housing damsels to practically sell them in freshwater to avoid the hassles at the store of the diseases manifesting.

there are too many variables to pinpoint here.

time to put the rocks into the tank, change out all the water, never run those kits again, stock with corals and CUC but not fish. you'd stock with fish after several days reading in the disease forum, covering acclimation and fallow and quarantine.

I have live rock but took it out due to them smelling like something died

 

[brandon429]

wash them off in clean saltwater, use a knife to scrape off any attached decaying growths

put them back clean into that tank, after you've cleaned it up and changed 100% of the water for new water. your cycle bac are still fine on the rock. don't add any more fish until the rock smells better. the cycle runs independently to the smell, they could be rotting from within. a couple dead fish do not smell up rocks after a sw cleaning.

if they still stink after a common cleaning run, they're stinky rocks to begin with. no live rock I've ever owned smelled bad, that is unique for sure.

 

[Spare time]

I took them out because they started to smell like something died

You should have left them in.
However, the sand should hold enough bacteria imo. Was the rock live meaning wet from another tank or was it dry and previously used (or dry and never used before)? I have a feeling the rock was curing meaning the organics on it were rotting off.

 

[thoughtknot]

wash them off in clean saltwater, use a knife to scrape off any attached decaying growths

put them back clean into that tank, after you've cleaned it up and changed 100% of the water for new water. your cycle bac are still fine on the rock. don't add any more fish until the rock smells better. the cycle runs independently to the smell, they could be rotting from within. a couple dead fish do not smell up rocks after a sw cleaning.

if they still stink after a common cleaning run, they're stinky rocks to begin with. no live rock I've ever owned smelled bad, that is unique for sure.

Thank you I’ve had them in a bucket with a power head and heater for a couple days I’ll clean them up and buy them back in the tank

 

[Garf]

You should have left them in.
However, the sand should hold enough bacteria imo. Was the rock live meaning wet from another tank or was it dry and previously used (or dry and never used before)? I have a feeling the rock was curing meaning the organics on it were rotting off.

Certainly sounds like rock curing. Or he has a conure in that cage and it's producing projectile faeces into the tank, lol.

 

[thoughtknot]

The rock was alive from my LFS tank that had a bunch of live rock in it, I don’t have a bird by the tank.

 

[brandon429]

That's reliable rock I bet

Are u almost done fixing the tank back up? I bet it'll run fine after preps.

Specifically don't run tests. Those kits aren't helpful, they're distracting and too often incorrect.

We can use alternate means to guide the tank

Clean up the system as stated, new water etc and add some corals and snails but not fish just yet. Watch how those animals survive first then wind up with fish

 

[Garf]

Specifically don't run tests

This advice in my view is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[thoughtknot]

That's reliable rock I bet

Are u almost done fixing the tank back up? I bet it'll run fine after preps.

Specifically don't run tests. Those kits aren't helpful, they're distracting and too often incorrect.

We can use alternate means to guide the tank

Clean up the system as stated, new water etc and add some corals and snails but not fish just yet. Watch how those animals survive first then wind up with fish

What coral and snails are good for beginners, also here are the rocks I have. Thanks for the help

 

[brandon429]

Get a couple mushroom rocks.

Some simple zoanthids are what I first tried


Ask lfs which snails they recommend. Don't feed the system a bunch but feed a couple small pellets a week until you work up to new animals. Any choices beyond these are up to you and part of your reefing journey
What I do is fix up cycles

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

The pic is not clear, but looks like there is no water movement, maybe you are smelling stagnant water. Should get a powerhead in there and point it at the surface to help oxygenate the water.