Everything is a disaster

[blaxsun]

GSP and xenias are fine - but don't place them into a tank unless you anchor them to a rock and isolate (they will spread and overtake everything). Here is exhibit A, B, C (etc.) I let a small (we're talking 1") GSP colony thrive on the side of a rock, thinking "how harmless could it get". 6 months on and it's overtaken what was (once) a rather nice zoanthid colony, duncan colony and favia. Oh they're still they're - just overgrown by GSP.


More proof of "Do as I say" and "Not as I've done"...

 

[nuxx]

Tank was up for a few years before I really started adding coral, even that was slow.

Ended up jumping ship because of un-explained fish deaths. The coral was finally starting to grow too

 

[saltyfins]

Am I missing something? Your Iodine is way way to low. This alone will make corals check out. I use the ATI and Reef Moonshiners ICP so the Fauna Marin is foreign to me.

this is the one, I'm pretty sure, that Andre advises to not mess with, due to not being reliable at all. but...not 100%

 

[Joekovar]

If it makes you feel any better, I think I've had more things die than I currently have alive in my tank after 2 or 3 years. I'm certain 2-3x as many fish as I have now have died.

I've lost track of how many $k's I've dumped into livestock. If I keep track, it's going to feel like a business, and that's not why I got into the hobby.

Stuff dies, I put different stuff in to replace it, some of it survives, some doesn't. The important thing is that over time the tank as a whole is growing.

 

[workhz]

Stuff dies, I put different stuff in to replace it, some of it survives, some doesn't. The important thing is that over time the tank as a whole is growing.

That’s the reality for a lot of people and on some level pragmatic. I’m not the type that equates a fish or coral with say a dog or cat but would hope people strive to take a bit more of sustainable approach.

 

[Joekovar]

That’s the reality for a lot of people and on some level pragmatic. I’m not the type that equates a fish or coral with say a dog or cat but would hope people strive to take a bit more of sustainable approach.

The only thing I've lost twice has been a 6 line wrasse, and that's because they both vanished without a trace. I'm reluctant to try a 3rd.

 

[Gatorpa]

The only thing I've lost twice has been a 6 line wrasse, and that's because they both vanished without a trace. I'm reluctant to try a 3rd.

Does your take have a lid?
Ive a six line for like 6 years. Been through about 6 moves, a house fire and an ick outbreak. Dude is fat as hell.

 

[ReefCheef]

I'm so close to quitting this hobby and I have only been in it for a little over 8 months.

Spent 9k so far to have some “easy” beginner corals die on me. I have an advanced skimmer, a reef mat running 24/7, 2 Wavemakers with Dual output, 2 red sea led, and 90 gallons of water. I Got my first corals after 1.5 months (pocillopora, stylophora, montipora, candy cane, green mushroom, Duncan). They were showing very good colors, was super happy and everything was just good. I also got a blue tang, a yellow goby and a pistol shrimp, 2 expensive clownfish (the one that cost 183 USD jumped out of the tank one day), and a butterfly fish (which just disappeared one day). Got ich at some point, which killed all my fish except the goby and clown, and I had a QT up for 50 days which luckily eradicated ich I think (?) with the help of some super nice members on this forum (thank you so much).

since all my fish was gone from the aquarium, a lot of weird-looking creatures multiplied in my tank. I got 3 corals more (1 more montipora, a rare rainbow chalice, and one more expensive montipora). one day my montipora had a big chunk bitten off. I was confused, all the other corals were doing good and having some growth. I had made sure to dip all my corals when I got them so surely nothing could have come into the tank? wrong, I had montipora eating nudibranchs, which is a death sentence for the coral. I tried scrapping it twice a week, but nothing seemed to help. In the meantime, I got another clownfish as I felt bad for my clown to be alone, a fox face rabbitfish, and a regal angelfish. I finished my QT and fallow period at that time. I read online that a six-line wrasse will help against the nudibranchs so I got one of them as well. on delivery day I got 2 clownfish instead of the one I ordered. they go crazy on each other and I have to separate them and sell one of them.

luckily my new batch of fish is thriving and to this day, none of them has died all of them are feeding well and are nice to each other. I feed them frozen Mysis, frozen Artemia dipped in vitamin dip, frenzy pellets, formula 2 and 1 pellets, AF pellets m and s, AF algae pellets, algae sheets daily, easy masstick, and live black worms (they love that, especially the regal angel).

my montipora both ended up dying so I had to get some new corals that cannot be eaten by my nudibranchs. I get 2 cleaner shrimp, 6 different montipora worth 700 USD, and a euphyllia holy grail worth 220 USD, and they get delivered in October. on arrival they have all lost their colors, one of them has already white tips on delivery, and surprise, they all die shortly after in my tank except for my euphoria. I understand that was a very dumb move on my part, and that I should not have gotten them so early. this is when things went downhill. suddenly on my rainbow crush chalice, a white spot appears. it gets bigger and now my Duncan is completely retracted. my euphyllia is still happy, but every other coral is sad. this goes on for a while, and my chalice ends up shrinking to half its size, the Duncan ends up getting good again, the pocillopora and stylophora die, my mushroom gets 2x bigger and spreads (only coral that loves my aquarium), the euphyllia gets smaller and smaller and I'm pretty sure it is dead now. my candy cane also melts and dies. what happened? all my parameters were good? I do an ICP test

aluminum is 10x higher than recommended and zinc is 5x higher as well. where does it come from? to this day I still don't know, but I have done a lot of water changes since. I now only have 2 corals left, a Duncan which looks like it has been through a war zone but it looks happy today and a mushroom which has never felt a thing. 2 weeks ago I bought some lordhowenis corals which are said to be easy. it looks good today. I also bought some zoanthids corals. half my them are out and the other half is retracted. I got a new montipora which is looking okay, polyps are not completely out and a slight white area is forming on the bottom of it. my new euphyllia torch toxic green/black is looking super happy with widely expelled polyps. last but not least I also got a clam which died after 24 hours.

I have spent so much money on this and kept parameters good for the last 3 but corals are furious for some reason. back in the start when I did not have as much control of parameters, and where I did not keep them as stable my corals were 100x happier. I'm so close to quitting and going full-on FOWLR.

this was my rant, I just had to get it out there. Merry Christmas and I hope your corals are doing much better than mine.

My first and only question, do you have an RODI system that's putting out 0 TDS water? From what you've spent I'd imagine you do, but if you're using tap water or getting it from a fish store that isn't good enough for long term success.

For what it's worth, my tank is just finishing it's 10th month. I didn't introduce a coral until the 7th month (1.5 months is way too early IMO regardless of what they say on YouTube - anyone that says otherwise is someone you need to avoid the advice of). I don't like talking about the money in this hobby because it makes me sick, but if it makes you feel better I put over 30k into my system, and even after waiting 7 months to add something, I lost my first 4 corals (acros) within a week of putting them in the tank. I ordered 2 more, those also died. Then I waited til the 9th month and ordered more. All of those are now encrusted and are covered in growth tips. This is my 4th reef tank, and in every single one, there is a random month where it goes from everything dying, to everything living. It's not the cycle completing. It's not the parameters being in check. It's just maturity that no one knows how to define, and there is no standard time where this happens. If I had to put a timeframe on it I would say right around a year. If it happens before that consider yourself lucky. Hang in there. You are getting close.

 

[Joekovar]

Does your take have a lid?
Ive a six line for like 6 years. Been through about 6 moves, a house fire and an ick outbreak. Dude is fat as hell.

No lid. My first thought was them jumping out. I checked every nook, every crevice, under furniture, every possible place they could've flipped into throughout the room. The second time I systematically moved every thing in the room and still found nothing.

I think something is eating them.

 

[TbSaysNo]

Can I ask one question and I don't mean insult here. What's the train of thought buying so many corals at once? Wouldn't you want to know if one could make it before buying 6 and then 2 euphyllia? I'd be very wary of what dropping 8 stony corals into my tank would do to current stability and would want to be on top of my tank and ready to meet the shift/need that will occur from that (CA, alk, mg, n+p) . I may not know what im talking about here but that's nothing new either lol.

I'm sorry for the hardship... Gotta be frustrating... Not trying to add to it

definitely will go more slow from now on until things stables out. thank you for the reply

 

[TbSaysNo]

8 months in is usually the tipping point for the ones who leave the hobby.
Adding any corals before your system is rock stable is a gamble at best, maybe softies at 1.5 months but even Xenia can melt without the micro-fauna backbone that supports Coral.
I can see your numbers look good to me. Those two metals can be added to city water as part of their conditioning. Chorine regularly shows up as well. Perhaps some of these enter your system with RO top off. If present, mop them up with Metasorb or similar binder, if chlorine is found, remove with chlorine block stage on.

You’ve come too far to look back, let’s look forward to identifying the causes and adding this to our experience.
You show the ICP, but that’s a point in time.
Can you add what flux’s you allow in each parameter?
Ick and fallow periods usually result in lower populations of good algaes and bacterias which invisibly are an energy source for corals. Food processing of the fish stops, so those nutrients requiring to sustain/increase the micro-fauna are not available.
But it will recover fast.

I have big concerns that a reef mat, in early systems, is stripping what we need in our waters in the first year or two.
I have further concerns with water changes, in the end, again, those nutrients are gone.

A new system needs nothing but a skimmer at start, we want the good/bad algae and bacteria to war out with each other. The stabler the water, the faster good outcompetes bad.
Corals love to consume both nitrate directly, and phosphate consume by algaes.

Let’s rule out water chemistry stability. Have parameters remained virtually unchanged for say 4 months?

Parameters seems to be stable now, but they have not been too stable if you look back a month.

I started with Red Sea Pro Coral salt and this seems to increase the Mg significantly. I have now decided to switch to Red Sea Blue Bucket. I can't really remove the Al and Zn with Polyfilter or Chemipure as its apparently not available in Europe. The same goes for Metasorb. I think the only way to get the values down is by water change. You suggest I disconnect the reef mat. Will this not have a negative effect on the cleanliness of the water? Thanks.

 

[TbSaysNo]

Starting with the salt - What brand are you using ?
Are you using RODI water or Tap water from the faucet ?
What test kits are you using?

Im using, or used, Red Sea Pro Coral salt. But I have decided to switch to Red Sea Blue Bucket as especially my Mg went to high.
I'm using Red Sea test kits but have just bought the Hanna Marine Tester (haven't got it yet as it is out of stock)
I'm using RODI water 100%
Thanks

 

[zdrc]

What's your nitrate and phosphate? You have a lot of nutrient export and possibly not a lot of fish stocking.

I've heard switching salts on an established tank is a bad idea. Did this coincide with any of your problems?

MarinePure biomedia has been known to leach aluminum.

I know some people wait crazy long to add corals, but this just doesn't seem like the problem to me. I added corals (LPS) to my tank after just a few weeks. Adding a lot of expensive corals all at once does seem like a bad idea though.

I think the only major mistake you made was that large online coral purchase. It's a pretty painful mistake though. The super expensive online eye-candy corals are really appealing, but based on your experience level and past problems I would avoid these corals for a while. Losing a $30 frag is a lot less painful than losing a $300 frag, and nothing will make you want to quit this hobby faster than massive monetary losses.

You could go FOWLR, but I see no reason not to add some softies and some cheap easy LPS. There are some beautiful mushrooms out there. Start with this and try some SPS again in another 6 months or so.

You had success with corals in the past, and I'm sure you can be successful in the future.

 

[TbSaysNo]

My first and only question, do you have an RODI system that's putting out 0 TDS water? From what you've spent I'd imagine you do, but if you're using tap water or getting it from a fish store that isn't good enough for long term success.

For what it's worth, my tank is just finishing it's 10th month. I didn't introduce a coral until the 7th month (1.5 months is way too early IMO regardless of what they say on YouTube - anyone that says otherwise is someone you need to avoid the advice of). I don't like talking about the money in this hobby because it makes me sick, but if it makes you feel better I put over 30k into my system, and even after waiting 7 months to add something, I lost my first 4 corals (acros) within a week of putting them in the tank. I ordered 2 more, those also died. Then I waited til the 9th month and ordered more. All of those are now encrusted and are covered in growth tips. This is my 4th reef tank, and in every single one, there is a random month where it goes from everything dying, to everything living. It's not the cycle completing. It's not the parameters being in check. It's just maturity that no one knows how to define, and there is no standard time where this happens. If I had to put a timeframe on it I would say right around a year. If it happens before that consider yourself lucky. Hang in there. You are getting close.

Yes, I'm using RODI water. How often do you do water change (and how much). I'm getting VERY different advises on this. I probably have to do some significant water changes myself to bring down the Al and Zn values but hopefully can slow down later when its in place.

 

[Gatorpa]

No lid. My first thought was them jumping out. I checked every nook, every crevice, under furniture, every possible place they could've flipped into throughout the room. The second time I systematically moved every thing in the room and still found nothing.

I think something is eating them.

Do you have cats or dogs?

 

[Gatorpa]

What's your nitrate and phosphate? You have a lot of nutrient export and possibly not a lot of fish stocking.

I've heard switching salts on an established tank is a bad idea. Did this coincide with any of your problems?

MarinePure biomedia has been known to leach aluminum.

I know some people wait crazy long to add corals, but this just doesn't seem like the problem to me. I added corals (LPS) to my tank after just a few weeks. Adding a lot of expensive corals all at once does seem like a bad idea though.

I think the only major mistake you made was that large online coral purchase. It's a pretty painful mistake though. The super expensive online eye-candy corals are really appealing, but based on your experience level and past problems I would avoid these corals for a while. Losing a $30 frag is a lot less painful than losing a $300 frag, and nothing will make you want to quit this hobby faster than massive monetary losses.

You could go FOWLR, but I see no reason not to add some softies and some cheap easy LPS. There are some beautiful mushrooms out there. Start with this and try some SPS again in another 6 months or so.

You had success with corals in the past, and I'm sure you can be successful in the future.

Also with buying “cheap” frags I find they can really change color under bright lights. See below, that piece was a brown ugly piece.

 

[TbSaysNo]

What's your nitrate and phosphate? You have a lot of nutrient export and possibly not a lot of fish stocking.

I've heard switching salts on an established tank is a bad idea. Did this coincide with any of your problems?

MarinePure biomedia has been known to leach aluminum.

I know some people wait crazy long to add corals, but this just doesn't seem like the problem to me. I added corals (LPS) to my tank after just a few weeks. Adding a lot of expensive corals all at once does seem like a bad idea though.

I think the only major mistake you made was that large online coral purchase. It's a pretty painful mistake though. The super expensive online eye-candy corals are really appealing, but based on your experience level and past problems I would avoid these corals for a while. Losing a $30 frag is a lot less painful than losing a $300 frag, and nothing will make you want to quit this hobby faster than massive monetary losses.

You could go FOWLR, but I see no reason not to add some softies and some cheap easy LPS. There are some beautiful mushrooms out there. Start with this and try some SPS again in another 6 months or so.

You had success with corals in the past, and I'm sure you can be successful in the future.

I haven't changed salt yet. I will change the salt in small steps. Adding 10% blue bucket and 90% pro in the first mix and then slowly increase the blue bucket salt content. At least I have learned that making big changes in the reefer is not the way forward

 

[Pridedcloth3]

What's your nitrate and phosphate? You have a lot of nutrient export and possibly not a lot of fish stocking.

I've heard switching salts on an established tank is a bad idea. Did this coincide with any of your problems?

MarinePure biomedia has been known to leach aluminum.

I know some people wait crazy long to add corals, but this just doesn't seem like the problem to me. I added corals (LPS) to my tank after just a few weeks. Adding a lot of expensive corals all at once does seem like a bad idea though.

I think the only major mistake you made was that large online coral purchase. It's a pretty painful mistake though. The super expensive online eye-candy corals are really appealing, but based on your experience level and past problems I would avoid these corals for a while. Losing a $30 frag is a lot less painful than losing a $300 frag, and nothing will make you want to quit this hobby faster than massive monetary losses.

You could go FOWLR, but I see no reason not to add some softies and some cheap easy LPS. There are some beautiful mushrooms out there. Start with this and try some SPS again in another 6 months or so.

You had success with corals in the past, and I'm sure you can be successful in the future.

I second this, I've done coral dumps after a couple months with no issue. Heck my mantis tank was a few days old when I put a few large softies in. Big baller spending is what is say is the issue. Too much filtration on such a young tank would be where I'd start. I typically start with a canister filter and let the nutrients build. And just go bare bones until the other stuff becomes a requirement.

 

[Joepie]

22 years of owning a reef tank learned me that succes and mishap are a “normal” manifestation in a tank. Firstly: be slow, patience is important. You are way to inpatient. Please Sps corals only after years. Second: corals like ‘dirty” water. A too good functionning Skimmer, roller mat and frequent water changing are imo too much. I change < 2% water per week. Third: check only the most important parameters and try to be constant with them: flow, light, temp, salt level, PH, KH, Calcium, Magnesium, Nitrate and Phosfate. I have never understand why people test (much) more, you will be anxious cq mad to correct a too high or too low extreme ingredient of the water. One warning: people are inclined only to publish pictures on R2R or RC when there tank is blossoming and beautiful. No one is proud to show his /her tank when things are going extremely bad /dirty. So there is a publication bias. Let that not distract you, when your tank is sometimes not functionning. Most reefers know or knew that too.

 

[Joekovar]

Do you have cats or dogs?

Other than my aquarium, I live alone.

I suspect a large emerald crab I had got the first one. I never did see a carcass though. There's a couple of caves they could've ended up in that I can't see inside of.