GHL Doser 2.1 with Director.....Doser Fried?
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blfuller123
375 Mixed Reef
I have my components stacked and had a leak from my KHD ph probe. The two lower dosing units I thought were done but I dried them out and cleaned everything out with contact cleaner and the only problem I had with either of those pumps is one of the top LEDs doesnt always work.
A couple of days later the KHD dosing pump heads would randomly lock up. I just purchased a replacement dosing pump for the KHD. I will keep the other one for parts.
I did incorporate drip trays under my equipment now and I try and touch the ph probe with my hands every few days. I will be adding leak detectors for each shelf but havent done so yet.
A couple of days later the KHD dosing pump heads would randomly lock up. I just purchased a replacement dosing pump for the KHD. I will keep the other one for parts.
I did incorporate drip trays under my equipment now and I try and touch the ph probe with my hands every few days. I will be adding leak detectors for each shelf but havent done so yet.
I agree that the leak trays are a good idea, but should we really have to worry about equipment this much that is used around water all the time!? It's hard for me to accept that I need to pay a premium price for a doser and then make it "reef proof" afterwards. They should never tell you to stack the Director on top of the Doser for one thing...this is just asking for problems. The way the PH probe is setup on the Director is also a pain in the butt. Considering you are supposed to calibrate this every 2-4 months it should be a real joy always making sure it seals up. The initial reason I purchased this product is because I am away from my tank a lot and needed more automation, but I am beginning to see that these monitoring devices are high maintenance and I may end up spending more time keeping them up and running than what I could simply just testing my alk twice a week with the salifert test kit.
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Your ticket was replied to shortly after being submitted. Please take a look.
GHL is refusing to cover this under warranty. They are stating that the manual and video says to stop the test immediately if there is a leak (which I can't find this information anywhere in the documentation or video). They are totally ignoring the fact that the doser leaks water from the top of the enclosure straight onto the electrical components, even if it's only 50-100 ml.
Josh Kraft
Well-Known Member
I had the same thing happen, they can repair your doser for you for a fee much less than the cost of a new one.
It took me a bit to understand that it was my fault, but essentially it was. I didn't tighten the ph probe nut enough and water leaked down onto my doser. I used to hand tighten it, I now use plyers to do it.
They recommend two options for how to arrange your hardware, one of them is definitely more safe than the other.
It took me a bit to understand that it was my fault, but essentially it was. I didn't tighten the ph probe nut enough and water leaked down onto my doser. I used to hand tighten it, I now use plyers to do it.
They recommend two options for how to arrange your hardware, one of them is definitely more safe than the other.
Michael Gray
Valuable Member
What I might do and might be good for everyone. Is to put a small bead of clear silicone at the seam of the bottom plate and top plate so water can't get in between the covers. That being said if needed to open up the product. Wouldn't take much but a tiny blade and then can peel off the silicone and when done seal it again
I had the same thing happen, they can repair your doser for you for a fee much less than the cost of a new one.
It took me a bit to understand that it was my fault, but essentially it was. I didn't tighten the ph probe nut enough and water leaked down onto my doser. I used to hand tighten it, I now use plyers to do it.
They recommend two options for how to arrange your hardware, one of them is definitely more safe than the other.
This is most definitely NOT your fault and should have been covered under warranty. The top enclosure is not properly sealed and it's most definitely a defect that should be fixed asap. They shouldnt even suggest putting the Director on top of the Doser period!
blfuller123
375 Mixed Reef
That sucks! I wish they would have consider this happening when it was designed, Im kinda of worried if there is going to be similar issues when the Ion Director comes out.
blfuller123
375 Mixed Reef
If its a known issue, I wonder why the design was never corrected and incorporated as is into the Ion Director. Like you said, people know now.
Caseyoidae
Valuable Member
Sorry to hear about your experience. I was looking at these as an option but am reconsidering now
I created this thread just to see how people felt on the situation you are in.
Simply said, you should have leak checked your equipment. Did you leak check the plumbing on your tank? My guess is you did. This is the same thing.
www.reef2reef.com
Also you might want to read this too.
www.reef2reef.com
Simply said, you should have leak checked your equipment. Did you leak check the plumbing on your tank? My guess is you did. This is the same thing.
Who is at fault?
I was reading a post about someones equipment that was ruined due to a leak. I'm trying to keep it vague as I don't think the manufacture needs to get thrown under the bus and neither does the owner. You can call it a question of ethics and there is no right or wrong answer. However recently...
www.reef2reef.com
Also you might want to read this too.
QUESTION OF THE DAY - THE BLAME GAME: Are we too quick to blame others? Maybe we should look in the mirror.
Now don't get mad at me on this one. I've thought about this one for a while, put it on a list, but never posted it because I didn't want it to go off the rails so to speak! But I think we're all adult enough to discuss this topic without it getting personal. So let me preface this with that. :)...
www.reef2reef.com
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lexinverts
Well-Known Member
It’s not a good design to have the probe so vulnerable to leaking, and if it is likely to leak on the first try, it’s really not good support to recommend the stacked configuration.
How do you know if it leaks or not until you run it for the first time? The exact same thing could have happened to me on my first test run.
I don’t understand why GHL would not fix this obvious design flaw in such an expensive piece of equipment.
How do you know if it leaks or not until you run it for the first time? The exact same thing could have happened to me on my first test run.
I don’t understand why GHL would not fix this obvious design flaw in such an expensive piece of equipment.
I created this thread just to see how people felt on the situation you are in.
Simply said, you should have leak checked your equipment. Did you leak check the plumbing on your tank? My guess is you did. This is the same thing.
Who is at fault?
I was reading a post about someones equipment that was ruined due to a leak. I'm trying to keep it vague as I don't think the manufacture needs to get thrown under the bus and neither does the owner. You can call it a question of ethics and there is no right or wrong answer. However recently...
Also you might want to read this too.
QUESTION OF THE DAY - THE BLAME GAME: Are we too quick to blame others? Maybe we should look in the mirror.
Now don't get mad at me on this one. I've thought about this one for a while, put it on a list, but never posted it because I didn't want it to go off the rails so to speak! But I think we're all adult enough to discuss this topic without it getting personal. So let me preface this with that. :)...
I am not sure how you would suggest leak testing something without running water through it....if you know a way please let me know and I will use it going forward. These dosers are going underneath people's stands all over the place, if even 50-100 ml of water gets on top of the doser on that right side, the doser is going to be toast!! If I tested again I bet in some cases as little as 5 ml to 10 ml could cause this issue. It would cost GHL next to nothing to seal this area up so this would never happen again, but they clearly don't care because they just make the customer's pay for it with no regard for bettering the product.
If you don’t seal a bulkhead correctly and it leaks, who’s fault is it? It’s easy enough to seal the probe and watch the first test... it just takes 15 mins to ensure no leaks, these probes need calibrating every month or so if you can’t seat a probe correctly or check for leaks maybe these arent for you...
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GHL has the policy not to discuss personal support, warranty or repair cases in public. This case is handled via the official GHL support cases, we don't comment more it about anywhere else. If the customers does prefer to keep his audience informed it is his decision, it doesn't change how GHL handles this case, it also does not change how GHL decides about a case. GHL tries to be as fair and cooperative, but naturally there are economic limitations for that. This is all we are going to say about this case.
I decided to write here because this thread gives the impression there was a general design flaw. This is not the case, because:
1. We never stated that a Doser (or P4 or KHD or other device) was water-proof. This is just not possible. Even if the upper part of the case was water-proof, the water would still run down the case and penetrate somewhere, most likely where the plugs are. What would a water-proof lid or even a PCB-coating help then? Right, nothing. These measures would only increase the production price which needs to be paid the customer. Who wants to pay more something which does not provide any benefits?
2. If you tighten the nut correctly you won't have ever any leakage problems. Would you expect that you can tighten a union nut thread somewhere in your plumbing just a bit? I don't hink so. Would you then blame the manufacturer of the fittings, pumps or pipes that there was a damage caused by a leakage? No.
In the case it was not obvious that a nut needs to be tightened we added that information on a large label next to the probe, it is mentioned at several locations in the manual as well as on the web page. What else could we do?
3. We sold meanwhile a high 4 digit number of KHD all over the world. Wouldn't there be a huge ****storm if there was a general design flaw? I admit that this problem - a leaking sensor due to bad tightening of the probe-holding nut - occured now a few times. But these case are still in the per mil range! I know that any case is one unhappy customer and one too much, but I can't see here any options for improvement on our side.
That's all I can say about this case and the leakage topic in general.
Getting back to work on the IOND. And yes, the design is similar. If you don't tighten this nut it is possible that water comes out of this hole during the measurement.
I decided to write here because this thread gives the impression there was a general design flaw. This is not the case, because:
1. We never stated that a Doser (or P4 or KHD or other device) was water-proof. This is just not possible. Even if the upper part of the case was water-proof, the water would still run down the case and penetrate somewhere, most likely where the plugs are. What would a water-proof lid or even a PCB-coating help then? Right, nothing. These measures would only increase the production price which needs to be paid the customer. Who wants to pay more something which does not provide any benefits?
2. If you tighten the nut correctly you won't have ever any leakage problems. Would you expect that you can tighten a union nut thread somewhere in your plumbing just a bit? I don't hink so. Would you then blame the manufacturer of the fittings, pumps or pipes that there was a damage caused by a leakage? No.
In the case it was not obvious that a nut needs to be tightened we added that information on a large label next to the probe, it is mentioned at several locations in the manual as well as on the web page. What else could we do?
3. We sold meanwhile a high 4 digit number of KHD all over the world. Wouldn't there be a huge ****storm if there was a general design flaw? I admit that this problem - a leaking sensor due to bad tightening of the probe-holding nut - occured now a few times. But these case are still in the per mil range! I know that any case is one unhappy customer and one too much, but I can't see here any options for improvement on our side.
That's all I can say about this case and the leakage topic in general.
Getting back to work on the IOND. And yes, the design is similar. If you don't tighten this nut it is possible that water comes out of this hole during the measurement.
After the running the leak test I DID tighten the the PH probe more before performing the second leak test and it still leaked. GHL simple wants to brush the real issue under the rug and that is the fact that the doser enclosure has a major defect which is allowing even the smallest amount of water to get inside the unit. Additionally, I can guarantee many more people are using your official videos to perform the install. You are basically saying ignore our movies because they are wrong and it's your fault you didn't read both the manual and watch the movie.
I am done discussing this issue. It is clear to me that GHL does not care about their customers at all or about fixing their defective products. I will be returning my KH Director, Slave Doser, KH Ion, and selling the Master Doser once it's fixed and going back to Neptune who has treated me well for 10 years now.
@Matthias Gross, thanks for replying.
I will say there is most defiantly room for improvement on your products. I have seen first hand the attitude of we can do no wrong from you and your support team. From a new Maxi Doser tube failure to breeze fan mounts being cracked. In each case you guys dismissed the issues. In the case of the tubing failure you tried to blame possible sand or a snail. I found out through the grapevine that others have had similar issues. BTW that ticket is still open and my queries to Vinny went ignored. On the breeze mounts I was told basically not to worry about it. Both times it left me knowing GHL has terrible support. So it was up to me to support my self.
I can assure you as a person who was a quality inspector for the Air Force and a 2M circuit card repair technician and has repaired multi layer circuit cards for Americas fighter aircraft, improvement is always an option. You say you have seen several similar failures that’s a red flag and should tell you as a manufacture that something is wrong.
Simple things such as conformal coating and sealing the box could and would likely have prevented the OPs card failure. Perhaps even adding small rubber feet to the bottom to elevate it off the surface could help. keeping water from seeping in from the bottom. You can look at the PCB where it burned and know that’s where the salt water entered.
Now you need to say what’s the cost to me as the manufacture. Raising the price of the product to add some protection or deal with customers who arn’t happy with your product.
I’ll be the first to say the OP should have done their due diligence and done a proper leak check. But after seeing your reply and knowing this is a bigger issue I think you have work to do too.
I think GHL is a good product and am looking forward to the ION. But to say I’m happy with the product that answer is no.
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Sure improvement is always an option, but at what cost. I am not willing to pay a premium for 100% waterproving an electical device because some people don't understand the risk involved when mixing water and electricity.
Neptune isn't waterproofing the Apex because somebody might drop it in his sump..... unplugged. I am certain though they issue warnings in the manual about handling the Apex around water unplugged.
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