Help me reduce my nitrate

[Vmacisback]

So After adding sand to my BB tank a few weeks back I noticed my corals went from looking dark and rich to dark and kinda off in a way. Maybe on the verge of browning out but not popping color like I am use to. My phos is about 0.0-.03 and I change out my GFO monthly or as needed. Heres the scary part... My nitrate is reading 40ppm in my dominant SPS tank. All corals that were yellow are now minty green and there is somewhat of a lack of PE. I did a large water change about 25g on my 100g tank and siphoned the sand and cleaned the sump. It maybe budged the nitrate 5ppm or so not much. As for now I have new chaeto in the sump with a reverse light cycle and GFO, other than that just weekly 10g water changes. I should state that I quit using filter socks but put one back on tonight as i noticed my sump would build up with detritus and gunk rather fast without it.

So my question is what would you do?

I have used Ecobak pellets with success of keeping the nitrate low but still having to run GFO. I just never felt like I had much control with pellets and if I was doing it correctly.

Never dosed Vodka or VSV but have heard good things and would be willing to try, just skeptical of the long term effects of this.

All in one biopellets sound like a winner but theres no real experts out there and tank that make me want to jump on the wagon.

Help please....

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't prefer the All in one pellets. You don't remove the GFO from the tank when using them, and you have no control over the ratio of GFO to organics.

There are lots of good ways to reduce organics, and I use several of them.

They include growing macroalgae, ATS, organic carbon dosing, skimming (or more skimming), and various types of denitrators.

Why did you stop the pellets before? The control issue?

 

[Reefing Madness]

I've been dosing vodka for a couple years now, no long term negative affects here.
Vodka Dosing by 'Genetics' and 'Stony_Corals' - Reefkeeping.com
Vodka dosing | Melev's Reef

 

[Vmacisback]

I don't prefer the All in one pellets. You don't remove the GFO from the tank when using them, and you have no control over the ratio of GFO to organics.

There are lots of good ways to reduce organics, and I use several of them.

They include growing macroalgae, ATS, organic carbon dosing, skimming (or more skimming), and various types of denitrators.

Why did you stop the pellets before? The control issue?

I stopped the pellets before on a larger tank because of lack of control. Once my tank reached ULNS I could never feed enough to actually raise any of the numbers. Then I questioned did i have to many pellets? Was i tumbling too fast? etc.

 

[Vmacisback]

I've been dosing vodka for a couple years now, no long term negative affects here.
Vodka Dosing by 'Genetics' and 'Stony_Corals' - Reefkeeping.com
Vodka dosing | Melev's Reef

This sounds like what I need i read this last night and its a good starting point just hand heard someone doing it for more than a year or so. Most people bounce around with methods in this hobby, thanks for the info.

Do you see a decrease in Phos levels with vodka dosing or mainly nitrate? Do you still run GFO?

 

[beaslbob]

+1 on using macro algaes

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I dose vinegar and also grow macroalgae, skim, and use GFO and GAC, and have large rock-filled refugia.

Organic carbon dosing of any form does reduce phosphate, but is more skewed to reducing nitrate.

 

[Vmacisback]

I dose vinegar and also grow macroalgae, skim, and use GFO and GAC, and have large rock-filled refugia.

Organic carbon dosing of any form does reduce phosphate, but is more skewed to reducing nitrate.

I have heard when carbon dosing you should not have a refugium because of some sort or bacterial competition, is this in any way true?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have heard when carbon dosing you should not have a refugium because of some sort or bacterial competition, is this in any way true?

It doesn't make sense to me. The bacteria have to grow somewhere, and I prefer the bacteria to grow in a refugium rather than possibly be visible in a display tank.

 

[Vmacisback]

It doesn't make sense to me. The bacteria have to grow somewhere, and I prefer the bacteria to grow in a refugium rather than possibly be visible in a display tank.

no thats not really what I mean. When I used biopellets in a reactor I was told to not run a refugium at the same time because the bacteria from the biopellets and the bacteria from the fuge will be in competition and one will inevitably not work...either the pellets or fuge will not be effective in this situation.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think what some people find is that with aggressive organic carbon dosing (pellets or otherwise), the macroalgae in refugia often withers away and dies due to lack of nutrients. It's not the bacteria in the refugium that have a competition problem, since none need grow there.

However, I grow both without a problem, probably because I am not striving for a ULNS tank where nutrients get very low. I also use a type of macroalgae that is pretty good at getting nutrients (Caulerpa racemosa).

 

[Vmacisback]

glad to know you can use both. I think for my problem I am leaning towards an ATS. Whats your opinion on those as opposed to vodka?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think an ATS a fine way to go if you have the space.

 

[fishroomlady]

does an ATS work on nitrate reduction or primarily phosphate?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It takes out both in a fairly balanced fashion.

 

[Vmacisback]

Randy,

I cant find any info on ATS and SPS tanks. Did I make the wrong move here in ordering an ATS? What would be the precautions if any. Thanks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If the ATS is working, I think it is likely a fine plan.

Do a google search on "ATS and SPS reef tanks" and you'll find lots of discussion.

 

[brandon429]

Randy
What is your take on the leaky nature of plants and phosphate, the crux of the anti ats mode as all workable modes have an anti heh

The forum chemists who discuss how plants uptake and then actively leak the phosphate (why not to use ats) have shorted on one answer: how are the masses reporting any gains whatsoever. Something is at work or the method wouldn't have got past Adey



The active cleaning was mentioned by Santa Monica as a difference in the two takes on plant binding, perhaps that removes faster than the plants leak the phosphate back into the water? That concept blew my mind when I'd first heard it. I always thought plant binding was locked until decay

Something provides the benefits that the before and after pics show for tanks using various forms of plant filtration whats your take
B

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not really familiar with the leakiness discussion, except that broken cells can spill some of their contents, but all of the tissue removed by scraping contains N and P.

 

[tonizzy22]

I have had a similar situation when running gfo and biopellets at the same time. Nitrates began to rise and rise for no reason. Remove the gfo and nitrates will begin to fall again, if not phosphates are still too low you may have to dose some phosphates into the system. Remember to monitor nitrates and phosphate levels. Brightwell has NeoPhos which is a controllable dose of phosphate. I myself used Neutral Regulator which is a phosphate buffer which is found at LFS. I mix 1 smidgen measuring spoon (smallest spoon I had)to 2 liters of water. One drop raised an estimated 100 gallon total water volume 0.01ppm. I also used microbacter7 to boost the bacteria numbers to consume the available nitrates and phosphates. Also what test kit kit are you measuring phosphates with?