HELP! Tank crash? Inverts dying, coral stressed

[buruskeee]

I'm not sure what's happening. Tank main parameters look fine.

Cycled end of August 2023 (dry rock/live sand)
150g system
34.5ppm salinity
Alk 8.3 (dosing 15ml AFR never outside of 8.0-8.5dKh)
Cal 430
Mag 1325
No3 8ppm (Hanna HR)
Po4 0.04ppm (Hanna ULR)
Temp 77.7F

All tested with trident, but double checked with Hanna/Salifert manually to rule out errors.

For the past 3 months or so I've been fighting dinos. Started with Ostreopsis, beat it with in tank UV (still stragglers here and there so UV still 24/7). 3 weeks ago when Ostreopsis suppressed, LCAs came in (could be SCA but everyone on Mack's dino FB suggests LCA). I've dosed silicates via 40% waterglass to 2ppm. 10 days ago. I've let GHA run wild to help outcompete. What I've noticed is that everywhere the GHA is, the LCA will attach (half way up my rocks, I have to keep up with blowing them off).

I've used carbon starting 10 days ago too as I saw 1 snail parish. Still in sump ready to replace in a few days.

Now the bad. Starting 3 days ago, corals are stressed (green slimmer is usually always fully extended and polyps are barely seen, and my duncan is usually huge in PE, but almost closed up all day). I'm losing color in some SPS that were deeply colored, and a couple others RTN'd fast (over those 3 days). 5 trochus snails died yesterday, and it looks like another handful are dying today (even though they just laid eggs again). I don't know what to test. I'm doing an ICP today, but that will take a couple weeks.

I have not done a water change in almost 3 months - when the dinos started. I'm afraid it will start the dino cycle again. Do I water change? Do I start process of beating GHA and immediately dosing silicates to battle LCA? I'm not even sure LCA is causing my problems. I've had zero swings in any parameter that is measured.

I'm all out of ideas. Is my tank just crashing? Fish seem fine for now, RO water last ICP tested 4 months ago showed zero pollutants and filters look fresh still (have an inline TDS meter too).

I need some guidance. What's the safest approach?

Photo yesterday after blowing Dinos off:

 

[shakacuz]

first guess looking at your water parameters, po4 could actually be 0 or very close. the Hanna egg checker has a range of 0.03 +/-, i believe. so because you read exactly 0.04, it could actually be 0.01, or 0.05. beyond that, maybe introducing some copepods/phyto/bacteria to outcompete the dino's as you filter them out through UV (whenever you chose to not run it 24/7)

 

[buruskeee]

first guess looking at your water parameters, po4 could actually be 0 or very close. the Hanna egg checker has a range of 0.03 +/-, i believe. so because you read exactly 0.04, it could actually be 0.01, or 0.05. beyond that, maybe introducing some copepods/phyto/bacteria to outcompete the dino's as you filter them out through UV (whenever you chose to not run it 24/7)

I have tons of pods and dose phyto. I’ll try to increase Po4 but right now my main concern is what to do to help my inhabitants.

 

[buruskeee]

Update - I just checked and my Blue Throat Wrasse is panting hard laying on the sand. Don’t know what to do. I’m preparing 40g of water right now.

 

[shakacuz]

right now my main concern is what to do to help my inhabitants.

that is done with fixing the root issue. as of now, po4 is my first guess but i would wait for others to provide input

Update - I just checked and my Blue Throat Wrasse is panting hard laying on the sand. Don’t know what to do. I’m preparing 40g of water right now.

make sure to test the water before changing it so you don't chock your system. that could add more stress, but will help if it is indeed a water chemistry issue.

 

[buruskeee]

Update again. Wrasse quickly ate a couple bites when I fed flakes. It has then returned right back to the same spot in the sand. Do I remove him and place in acclimation box to monitor? Do I set up hospital tank even though I’m not sure what’s going on?

Both salifert sticker and ATI show no ammonia spike.

I’m starting to panic.

 

[Doctorgori]

start running carbon in the. meanwhile ( as your. new water. is. mixing)
I normally use. IO but choose a fast acting salt

 

[shakacuz]

Update again. Wrasse quickly ate a couple bites when I fed flakes. It has then returned right back to the same spot in the sand. Do I remove him and place in acclimation box to monitor? Do I set up hospital tank even though I’m not sure what’s going on?

Both salifert sticker and ATI show no ammonia spike.

I’m starting to panic.

@vetteguy53081

 

[Doctorgori]

I’ve had a few emergencies ….never hurts to have a simple dual outlet air pump along with carbon and/or poly filters handy ….

Added… be advised If your water is freshly mixed, it could possibly stress the fish ( not a absolute, but be aware)

I would only remove the wrasse if you are setup.

 

[buruskeee]

start running carbon in the. meanwhile ( as your. new water. is. mixing)
I normally use. IO but choose a fast acting salt

Red Sea brand Carbon has been in the sump for a little over a week now. Should I change it out? I have an are being made and Red Sea salt ready to mix once I have water.

 

[buruskeee]

I’ve had a few emergencies ….never hurts to have a simple dual outlet air pump along with carbon and/or poly filters handy ….

Added… be advised If your water is freshly mixed, it could possibly stress the fish ( not a absolute, but be aware)

I would remove the wrasse if you are setup.

My smaller Bimac Anthias is also looking stressed now. It’s hiding under on of the caves and did not come out for eating.

 

[buruskeee]

Do I potentially kill the Wrasse trying to catch it? It’s now swimming a little bit in a very stressed way.

 

[PocketGoose]

Dinos have the ability to release toxins into the water column. Inverts can also ingest this same toxin and ultimately end up perishing. Looks like you have a decent infestation. A mass die-off could potentially trigger the release of the toxin and expose your fish. It sounds like you've taken serious measures to eradicate them, leading to a potential release. I think a WC/carbon may help relieve some of the symptoms and dilute toxins if that is in fact the cause, adding some oxygen might help too.

 

[Doctorgori]

Red Sea brand Carbon has been in the sump for a little over a week now. Should I change it out? I have an are being made and Red Sea salt ready to mix once I have water.

yes, TBH I’m not certain exactly how much overlap is between carbon vs poly filter BUT when I suspect toxins, pollutants or whatever I run both carbon and poly filters followed by a few massive water changes … I then run carbon afterwards also

anyone, neighbors et spraying insecticide, hairspray et in the air ? ( have you eliminated airborne contamination as a possibility ?)…doubt it but worth mentioning

 

[buruskeee]

Dinos have the ability to release toxins into the water column. Inverts can also ingest this same toxin and ultimately end up perishing. Looks like you have a decent infestation. A mass die-off could potentially trigger the release of the toxin and expose your fish. It sounds like you've taken serious measures to eradicate them, leading to a potential release. I think a WC/carbon may help relieve some of the symptoms and dilute toxins if that is in fact the cause.

Do I try to catch my wrasse and place it in the acclimation box? Do I leave it? I don’t know what to do right now. The wrasse is starting to look pale. I haven’t added any new fish for 3 months only snails and the fish were all fully QTd.

 

[PocketGoose]

Do I try to catch my wrasse and place it in the acclimation box? Do I leave it? I don’t know what to do right now. The wrasse is starting to look pale. I haven’t added any new fish for 3 months only snails and the fish were all fully QTd.

Speaking from my limited experience I would say stressing the fish out further by trying to catch it may not be beneficial.

I really don't think this is happening from disease - wrasses are supposedly pretty tough for the most part. I think there is some sort of toxin/contaminant in the water and you should address that before anything.

 

[Dom]

@buruskeee

First, thank you for a thorough first post on the problem.

You certainly have a lot going on and it can get overwhelming. I'm overwhelmed after reading your post!

I would suggest pulling back a bit. When using additives, there is no way to know the interaction that occurs between the combination of additives.

I would start off with the healthy water change you are preparing and some carbon too. I'd stop everything else, including products designed to eradicate anything.

I would manually siphon out the Dinos until I had a good 6 weeks of weekly water changes. Once everything stabilizes, you can start up additives again to deal with Dinos.

And remember: The only reliable QT is your own QT.

 

[Doctorgori]

I always keep a cheap Walmart quality plastic 32 gal garbage can. for emergencies
…you might wanna be be mixing water as we speak.
I do 33%. x 33% x 33% over a few days ,,,
if it’s “ code red” 50% x 50%
temp being with a couple degrees, salinity within 2 ppt, if not error on the side of going high to low.
Edit add: each brand of salt has its own “ready/ ageing” period, so choose a brand with fast mixing

 

[buruskeee]

@buruskeee

First, thank you for a thorough first post on the problem.

You certainly have a lot going on and it can get overwhelming. I'm overwhelmed after reading your post!

I would suggest pulling back a bit. When using additives, there is no way to know the interaction that occurs between the combination of additives.

I would start off with the healthy water change you are preparing and some carbon too. I'd stop everything else, including products designed to eradicate anything.

I would manually siphon out the Dinos until I had a good 6 weeks of weekly water changes. Once everything stabilizes, you can start up additives again to deal with Dinos.

And remember: The only reliable QT is your own QT.

As I was on the phone with a not so local LFS that’s super knowledgeable with fish and treatments (he’s humble fish certified QT retailer), the wrasse remarkably started to act more normal and is now swimming again (still can tell it’s stressed).

That is my biggest concern - the fish. The small Bimac is still hiding under the cave though.

I used my DIY coral snow (calcium carbonate) because I was in a panic. Hopefully that caused some of the toxins to get bound and filtered out.

I’m going to do a siphon to remove some GHA and Dinos from the sand to help alleviate the toxins.

I have 5g made so far and it takes about 10 hours to get the full 40g. Worst case I can drive to grab jugs from my LFS.

 

[Dom]

I used my DIY coral snow (calcium carbonate) because I was in a panic.

Get a grip!