ION Director - measuring Ca + Mg

[ReefyB]

Hi,

haven't written here for a longer time for a good reason, I justed wanted to see how my experiments go.
It seems that Nitrate works, but Phosphate seems a problem since the concentrations are usually very low in our marine water tanks. In general it is possible to measure, but these small values give not a sufficient accuracy.
What do you think - is Nitrate enough or is Phosphate a must-have? Maybe we start with the rest and add Phosphate later when we are OK with the results.

Furthermore I am working on getting the costs down, especially the recurring costs.

Please excuse the recent silence, just don't want to announce uncertain things.

Even when I don't comment everything: Please continue to discuss here, your thoughts and concerns are very appreciated and welcome, this helps me to develop the right product, I read all posts here.

For phosphate, maybe then consider, if you haven’t already, having tiers instead of an exact value, for example maybe < .01 | .01-.05 | .05-.1 |.1-.2 |.2-.5 |>.5. I think as long as it can accurately put us somewhere in the ballpark so we have an idea of big changes it will definitely be worth it.

 

[JoshH]

For phosphate, maybe then consider, if you haven’t already, having tiers instead of an exact value, for example maybe < .01 | .01-.05 | .05-.1 |.1-.2 |.2-.5 |>.5. I think as long as it can accurately put us somewhere in the ballpark so we have an idea of big changes it will definitely be worth it.

I think that would work very well to start and could be fine tuned down the road.

@Matthias Gross any chance you guys could get an automatic copper testing/dosing machine in the works?

 

[WWIII]

I feel like releasing it with calcium, magnesium, nitrate would be ok as long as we are only talking about adding a phosphorus probe later. If something else needed to be changed, I think it would be better to wait.

I have no idea how ion selective probes really work, especially when we are trying to measure things that normally are not. Or if they are, the probes are very expensive and have a short lifespan. If we can get those 3 main options, with phosphate guaranteed down the line, at a reasonable price and with a decent lifespan, then I am all for it! On the other hand, if you think something in the machine or the calibration would need to be changed, maybe waiting would be best?

How long do we think the probes should last before needing to be replaced? Are the costs of the different ion probes going to vary much? For example, will phosphate probe be really expensive while magnesium probe is considerably cheaper? Just an example...

Can't wait to see this in action! I have a ton of confidence in GHL with this project!

 

[WWIII]

I think that would work very well to start and could be fine tuned down the road.

@Matthias Gross any chance you guys could get an automatic copper testing/dosing machine in the works?

As long as the phophate probe that is the fine tuned one doesn't cost $1k. Lol.

I agree copper would be awesome, but there's no way I'm putting a machine like this on my quarantine tank. Haha

 

[JoshH]

As long as the phophate probe that is the fine tuned one doesn't cost $1k. Lol.

I agree copper would be awesome, but there's no way I'm putting a machine like this on my quarantine tank. Haha

Lol It would probably have to be a separate machine all on it's own but if they could keep it in the $3-400 range I'd shell out for it.

 

[WWIII]

Lol It would probably have to be a separate machine all on it's own but if they could keep it in the $3-400 range I'd shell out for it.

Now you're talking! I'm sure I would have a couple extra dosing heads. If they sold a copper ion selective "probe box" with a in/out around that price I would definitely buy it. I'm lazy and while the hanna checker works great, I usually only test a couple times here and there while new fish go through qt. Would really change the copper qt game!

 

[Wrasse-cal]

Hi,

haven't written here for a longer time for a good reason, I justed wanted to see how my experiments go.
It seems that Nitrate works, but Phosphate seems a problem since the concentrations are usually very low in our marine water tanks. In general it is possible to measure, but these small values give not a sufficient accuracy.
What do you think - is Nitrate enough or is Phosphate a must-have? Maybe we start with the rest and add Phosphate later when we are OK with the results.

Furthermore I am working on getting the costs down, especially the recurring costs.

Please excuse the recent silence, just don't want to announce uncertain things.

Even when I don't comment everything: Please continue to discuss here, your thoughts and concerns are very appreciated and welcome, this helps me to develop the right product, I read all posts here.

I am heavily invested with Neptune Apex products and own the Alkatronic.

If you folks came up with a reliable, and accurate CA, Mg, Nitrate and Phosphate test, I would seriously consider switching systems.

The nitrate and phosphate testing would be the lynchpin as far as I am concerned. I only test my CA and Mg occasionally. I test my KH 12 times per day.

 

[JoshH]

Now you're talking! I'm sure I would have a couple extra dosing heads. If they sold a copper ion selective "probe box" with a in/out around that price I would definitely buy it. I'm lazy and while the hanna checker works great, I usually only test a couple times here and there while new fish go through qt. Would really change the copper qt game!

I don't think it's about being lazy. What I think would be awesome is being able to set your QT volume size and have the machine be able to ramp up the copper nice and slow in completely equal doses up to the minimum therapeutic levels. And keeping it stable at those levels I feel would have HUGE benefits long term with QTs and survival rates.

 

[road_runner]

Talk about a game changer. This is a true game changer. Cannot wait to get my hands on one.

 

[road_runner]

Hi,

haven't written here for a longer time for a good reason, I justed wanted to see how my experiments go.
It seems that Nitrate works, but Phosphate seems a problem since the concentrations are usually very low in our marine water tanks. In general it is possible to measure, but these small values give not a sufficient accuracy.
What do you think - is Nitrate enough or is Phosphate a must-have? Maybe we start with the rest and add Phosphate later when we are OK with the results.

Furthermore I am working on getting the costs down, especially the recurring costs.

Please excuse the recent silence, just don't want to announce uncertain things.

Even when I don't comment everything: Please continue to discuss here, your thoughts and concerns are very appreciated and welcome, this helps me to develop the right product, I read all posts here.

New fan of GHL. I am amazed by the wonderful build quality and customer support you guys are giving.
Equally amazed by the real innovation that is going with you.
Rooting dor you.

 

[Silver14SS]

I am heavily invested with Neptune Apex products and own the Alkatronic.

If you folks came up with a reliable, and accurate CA, Mg, Nitrate and Phosphate test, I would seriously consider switching systems.

The nitrate and phosphate testing would be the lynchpin as far as I am concerned. I only test my CA and Mg occasionally. I test my KH 12 times per day.

I too have an Apex and Alkatronic and have been happy with both. If there ends up being a package with controller, testers, dosing pumps, it would be very tempting to switch.

All this innovation made me look at my test logs. Whoops on not testing Ca or Mg for a while...

 

[road_runner]

I too have an Apex and Alkatronic and have been happy with both. If there ends up being a package with controller, testers, dosing pumps, it would be very tempting to switch.

I second that. I would switch in a heart beat.

 

[Torx]

I already did and never looking back. My GHL control center is the heart of my rebuild. New custom tank coming in July 2019

 

[road_runner]

I already did and never looking back. My GHL control center is the heart of my rebuild. New custom tank coming in July 2019

Can you share some experince in this thread I just made. The more i read about the GHL product line the more it blow my mind..

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...&share_tid=597041&share_fid=1020&share_type=t

 

[siggy]

Nitrate is always welcomed for those with low nutrients, I was dosing it wile I had low Phosphates and I needed to monitor no3 BUT PO4 is the KEY and the one that needs to be watched closely IMHO
I cant think how Po4 can be done with a probe to get accurate separation.....unless the probe is basically like......Think hanna with logging output Waiting on the day a Home ICP is the norm

 

[road_runner]

Nitrate is always welcomed for those with low nutrients, I was dosing it wile I had low Phosphates and I needed to monitor no3 BUT PO4 is the KEY and the one that needs to be watched closely IMHO
I cant think how Po4 can be done with a probe to get accurate separation.....unless the probe is basically like......Think hanna with logging output Waiting on the day a Home ICP is the norm

Po4 with prob is tough one I think. I think reagents are needed due to the low concentrations
Dr.bridge the inventor of khg, have a po4 tester that is similar form factor to the khg but he chose not to monetize it now.
Actually dr. Bridge have so much innovative products its crazy. His name is Dr.chen he is PhD in robotics and chemistry. Crazy combo ha ha.

 

[Reefahholic]

Love my GHL. Please see my dosing thread.

Also...being able to monitor NO3 / PO4 would be excellent.

 

[Tristren]

Hi,

haven't written here for a longer time for a good reason, I justed wanted to see how my experiments go.
It seems that Nitrate works, but Phosphate seems a problem since the concentrations are usually very low in our marine water tanks. In general it is possible to measure, but these small values give not a sufficient accuracy.
What do you think - is Nitrate enough or is Phosphate a must-have? Maybe we start with the rest and add Phosphate later when we are OK with the results.

Furthermore I am working on getting the costs down, especially the recurring costs.

Please excuse the recent silence, just don't want to announce uncertain things.

Even when I don't comment everything: Please continue to discuss here, your thoughts and concerns are very appreciated and welcome, this helps me to develop the right product, I read all posts here.

I agree with @WWIII that launching with "just" Nitrate first makes sense as long as adding Phosphate later is possible in a reasonable way. Presumably that would mean (for the consumer) buying a new probe for around the same cost as your other probes. Frankly that would be amazing.

From what I have seen on this and other forums, the key to a positive user reaction to such a path would be clarity and transparency. And you are obviously providing that already but it would need to be in the marketing material as well.

The way you seem to be describing the options, the best model could actually be your Doser model. Meaning you can sell a testing unit with up to four slots (as you do with dosing heads). Then sell the probes separately, including for Alkalinity. That would put you well ahead of the pack and really be a key differentiator from the other options in this market. If that is technically feasible that would be the gold standard in this segment. I know that I would buy one.

The market is moving quickly though, and if you have Ca, Mag, and Nitrate tests that you are happy with, and are not sure if Phosphate will work to the level you want, you may be best to move forward with that.

But if you do so I would strongly strongly recommend making sure that you are transparent about the fact that Phosphate may be coming later so that people can decide to buy now or wait. From what I have seen missing that communication can lead to a strangely strong backlash from hobbyists. Then of course you need to decide if it is worth launching a product with part of your market holding back. I do think it makes sense to do so if you can manage the "upgrades" effectively though. From what I have seen lack of demand has not been an issue for any major new product. If anything a slower launch could be a good thing to allow for production and distribution to ramp up.

Of course, @Matthias Gross , you know your business better than I. And @Marco@GHLUSA and @Vinny@GHLUSA know your North American market well. So these are just my outside thoughts and you should only take them for what they are worth.

Cheers, Tony

 

[Lasse]

From this thread

The ION Director takes one sample and will do testing for all values at the same time, if this was the question. One ION Director, one Doser, for all.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[WWIII]

One thing that gives me more confidence in this project is GHL's probe maker. I have no idea who makes their probes, but the current probes they have for the profilux and kh director are excellent! I get that ion selective probes is a whole different ball game, but it can't hurt that the probes they currently offer are extremely accurate and last for a very long time! I know that GHL understands this is the key to make this ion director a success. If they hadn't already had some promising results for the past couple years, we wouldn't be talking about it here yet.

Pretty excited to see this develop! I know there's at least one other company that recently popped up using the same technology. Who knows if or when that will develop? My confidence lies in the company itself, not the technology. GHL has been around a long time and isn't going to leave us waiting for years and years. Nor are they going to dissapear if issues arise!