Is Kalk all it’s cracked up to be?

[VegasRick]

Adding kalk to an ATO container is better than nothing but still not ideal. Kalk will separate from the solution over time. You need to find a way to keep the kalk in suspension in the mixture. Most people use a simple mixing pump. Mine has to mix for 15 minutes every 3 hours or Kalk is not properly supplemented into my system. Keep in mind that this time frame is used on a Kalk Reactor, which only doses the water at the very top, where it is least saturated. The mixing pump is a key element to safely dosing kalk.

Thats not my understanding
from The Degradation of Limewater in Air by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Limewater can lose potency by reacting with carbon dioxide in the air, forming insoluble calcium carbonate. Since calcium carbonate is not an effective supplement of calcium and alkalinity in reef aquaria, the limewater can become less useful through this process. The rate at which this happens in large containers, such as plastic trashcans with loose fitting lids, is much less than many aquarists expect. There is, in fact, little degradation under typical use conditions. Consequently, the dosing of limewater from such large still reservoirs can be just as effective as dosing using any other scheme, and may have substantial advantages. These advantages include simplicity of the system and the ability to use organic acids such as vinegar to boost the potency. The use of a reactor to dose limewater has the advantage of requiring less space, but does not have the oft-stated advantage of eliminating degradation by atmospheric carbon dioxide that is reported to plague delivery from reservoirs.

 

[AcroholicReefer]

Can you explain a bit more? Are you saying that you don't need a mixing pump? I'm just going off of the experience of running a kalk reactor for over 4 years now. Yes, when calcium carbonate is formed, it becomes useless. By keeping the mixture stirred and the 24/7 dosing, the carbonate does not form since it is only exposed to a small amount of surface area. This is also the advantage of a well built reactor, one that is water tight and not exposing it to the air.

 

[Onedesign1]

I'm using a DIY reactor ... not sure who gets credit for the concept...Neilson maybe but not sure...anyhow the reactor was made by someone for a calc reactor with 2 large acrylic canisters. Deal was he would give me the setup if I made him a kalk reactor too. So i took it. Its very basic. I mounted a MJ400 at the bottom of the chamber so it sucks in the water and blows it back in the bottom to stir it. Feeding the reactor is my ATO tank which uses a JBJ ATO unit in the sump. The top off RO/DI water enters the reactor from the top which has a tube down to the bottom of the reactor. The exit is a short tube 4 inches long also at the top and water pushes through there back into my sump. The JBJ float sensor turns the entire operation on and off. Every 3 hours the pump stirs the mix. When the ATO kicks on it further stirs whats at the bottom but since most if the settling is in the lower half of the unit the solution dispensed into the sump is not white. The unit holds about 2 gal of RODI water...to that I add 8 tsp of kalk every 1.5 weeks.

My calc has been pretty locked in at 450 since I started this and my ph right at 8.3. I still measure and occasionally have to dose Alk. Mag has been solid once I dosed it up to proper levels

Been running about 2 months now.

Question for everyone....how often should we clean out the reactor?

 

[AcroholicReefer]

Question for everyone....how often should we clean out the reactor?

Sounds like you have a great set up! The biggest factor for how often you have the clean the reactor depends on the quality of kalk that you use. I use the BRS stuff and it defiantly is not the purest. ESV makes really good quality kalk. I clean mine every time I replace the kalk, which is about once every 2 or 3 months.

 

[Onedesign1]

BRS stuff here too....I thought it was supposed to be pretty good. Will checkout ESV. Thanks

 

[VegasRick]

Can you explain a bit more? Are you saying that you don't need a mixing pump? I'm just going off of the experience of running a kalk reactor for over 4 years now. Yes, when calcium carbonate is formed, it becomes useless. By keeping the mixture stirred and the 24/7 dosing, the carbonate does not form since it is only exposed to a small amount of surface area. This is also the advantage of a well built reactor, one that is water tight and not exposing it to the air.

Well I have never used a Kalk reactor. But I have used KW since the early 90s. My understanding is that it doesn't fall out of solution or the amount it does fall out is negligible. I used to think it needed to be stirred but after some discussions on another forum and reading RHF's article I changed my opinion. A reactor that stirs it often can be adding supersaturated liquid, that is some of the ca hydroxide is in particle form floating in the water and once it enters the sump is quickly dissolved.

 

[Cjscott]

Adding kalk to an ATO container is better than nothing but still not ideal. Kalk will separate from the solution over time. You need to find a way to keep the kalk in suspension in the mixture. Most people use a simple mixing pump. Mine has to mix for 15 minutes every 3 hours or Kalk is not properly supplemented into my system. Keep in mind that this time frame is used on a Kalk Reactor, which only doses the water at the very top, where it is least saturated. The mixing pump is a key element to safely dosing kalk.

So what if I got a smaller container for my top off water and used it more quickly?

 

[AcroholicReefer]

Well I have never used a Kalk reactor. But I have used KW since the early 90s. My understanding is that it doesn't fall out of solution or the amount it does fall out is negligible. I used to think it needed to be stirred but after some discussions on another forum and reading RHF's article I changed my opinion.

I think that the main thing is that as long as you are adding kalk to a reef system, you are doing good things to your aquarium, no matter how you add it. When you add kalk to the reactor, you add it well past the equilibrium point (saturation point), leaving extra kalk at the bottom of the reactor and creating a couple of months of reserve. This can happen just as well in an ATO container. I guess the goal of this method is to add the amount of kalk need to reach the equilibrium where you have all of the kalk in the solution. Which is fine but I just see the mixture being more dilute than closer to the saturation point.

A reactor that stirs it often can be adding supersaturated liquid, that is some of the ca hydroxide is in particle form floating in the water and once it enters the sump is quickly dissolved.

A pH monitor prevents overdosing to go along with a float valve that prevents salinity changes.

 

[AcroholicReefer]

So what if I got a smaller container for my top off water and used it more quickly?

Sure, that is the safest way to add kalk in an ATO container.

 

[GIT RITE]

Well this was a very interesting read, learned a lot. All my questions have been answered but one. My BC 14 only evapes roughly a 2 cups a day, would this reactor work for me. I only ask this because the stirring effect is only done by in flow of ATO water and since I dont evape much it wouldn't stir much. Would this be ok?

 

[VelasCorals]

Well this was a very interesting read, learned a lot. All my questions have been answered but one. My BC 14 only evapes roughly a 2 cups a day, would this reactor work for me. I only ask this because the stirring effect is only done by in flow of ATO water and since I dont evape much it wouldn't stir much. Would this be ok?

Any kalk stirrer will work with your application and evaporate rate. However I would not recommend the TLF reactor. The design has a major flaw and that is the need of a check valve. The check valve continuously fails and causes saturated kalk mixture from the bottom of the reactor to be siphoned back to the ro/do reservoir. The next time the reactor kicks on you get an overdose of kalk water because all the kalk from the bottom of the reactor was just pulled out and into the reservoir and rodent have time to settle.

I've had two of these reactors and they both have the same problem. I even had TLF send me a new check valve and still had the same problem. You just can't use a check valve on an application with kalk because of the build up so the whole design is flawed.

If I were to do it again I would purchase a motor driven stirrer like the one Avast sells.

 

[GIT RITE]

I gotcha, thanks for the expertise. I have been looking at the Avast one and I like the simplicity of it, looks as though it would last a long time. Do you still have to use a check valve with the Avast Kalk reactor or any similar brand?

 

[VelasCorals]

Any motor driven kalk stirrer doesn't reply on that check valve. So you wouldn't have to worry about a check valve failing all the time.

 

[sweetride]

forrealb50 is the TLF reactor now off line? how long did you end up using kalk? and how stable was your parameter say after 3 months and 6 months?

 

[REEFKEEPER10]

my question is do you dose magnesium separate. I read the entire thread and did not see anything on that. I assume you do but I could be wrong.

 

[danka-cedium]

i have used both the tlf reactor (peice of crap) and k2. The k2 is well made and those guys are great with customer service.

 

[arotbart]

Question on the Additions to the Stirrer

I purchased one of the TLF Stirrers and followed the instructions and my ALk shot up too much for my liking.

Some information about my set up.

I have a 180g SPS with a 30 Gal frag tank plumbed and 40 Gal sump, so total vol gross is bout 250, and say 210-220 after rocks are taken into acct.

I run a calcium reactor and hit a wall. I could not get more than 8.5 on Alk and 400 on Cal and was pushing the CO2 and the effluent at a pretty good clip. not that those numbers are bad, but I am trying to concentrate on growth right now and wanted to hit about 9.5-10 on the Alk and 430 on Cal, so I thought the TLF would be a nice way to supplement both alk and CA. I had been dripping dosing Kalkwasser, but was not really doing anything.

Well followed the instructions, my evaporation rate is about 2-2.5 gallons per day - 14-17.5 per week and added a cup of the Kalk figuring this would be on the low side.

Well my ALK shot up to 12.5, PH ran up to 8.6....sooooo, to counter the run up in PH...added a little vinegar, and got the PH under control. throttled back on my CO2 and effluent rate (this was done about a day ago, so it takes around 48 hrs or so for this to really kick in), and manually dosed some Cal in order to bring down the ALK and so far so good, got Alk down to 11.2 or so and will repeat today.

I reset the stirrer (flushed it clean and instead of the recommended cup, went with only 1/2 cup), and so far so good.
My questions is how much Kalkwasser is added to the stirrer on a weekly or monthly or some other basis? What is done with the old "used up" kalkwasser?

I am going to basically let my system tell me by reading my PH and testing CAL and ALK on a daily basis until i hit my targets, but was curious as to what everyone else is doing......

 

[MBG75]

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[Aquaph8]

Arotbart, when I started my Kalk reactor I took everything else off line to see what the kalk did by its self and then started supplementing other means of cal/alk to compensate for where the kalk wasn't keeping up. I also use a half cup and just add another half cup when it get low or my ph starts to fall. What are you using to test your PH?

 

[arotbart]

I have a pin point monitor...calibrated monthly.

I kinda did that....I pulled way back on the CA reactor (both the CO2 drip rate and the effluent drip rate) to see what the Kalk Stirrer will do on its own in terms of AlK and CA. So far so good...I am at 9.5-10 on Alk, CA is running at 430-440, and PH runs 7.95 in the morning before lights come on, to around 8.25 to when MH shuts off in the PM....I am going to add about 1/3 - 1/2 cup of KW later today as the PH is starting to trend down a bit..