Is Kalk all it’s cracked up to be?

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VelasCorals

VelasCorals

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forrealb50 is the TLF reactor now off line? how long did you end up using kalk? and how stable was your parameter say after 3 months and 6 months?

I'm using the TLF reactor but in a different way. I now add the kalk in the 20gallon ro/di res. When the pump comes on for the ATO it still goes through the TLF reactor but the check valve and sprinkler head is removed.

my question is do you dose magnesium separate. I read the entire thread and did not see anything on that. I assume you do but I could be wrong.

I'm going to start dosing magnesium.

I actually broke down the 60 gallon tank last year and I have my new 187 gallon that I'm using Kalk in. The tank is still new around 4-5 months and still working out the dosing schedule kinks.
 

MBG75

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Started Kalk in my top off container. Using 6 teaspoon for 6 gallons, but my Alk is still dropping, but much more slowly..
Do I just add more Kalk to the top off?

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Troylee

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Started Kalk in my top off container. Using 6 teaspoon for 6 gallons, but my Alk is still dropping, but much more slowly..
Do I just add more Kalk to the top off?

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
Ya you can double that dose if ya want but be careful and work up to it slowly... Not sure what kalk your using but I use brightwells kalk+2 and I use 3tsp to 5 gal of top off water... Seems to work great in my system... On my big reef stuffed with Sps colonies I was using 2tsp per gallon of top off water...
 

MBG75

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Ya you can double that dose if ya want but be careful and work up to it slowly... Not sure what kalk your using but I use brightwells kalk+2 and I use 3tsp to 5 gal of top off water... Seems to work great in my system... On my big reef stuffed with Sps colonies I was using 2tsp per gallon of top off water...

Using the same, Brightwells Kalk +2. It's a 75 mixed reef. Before Kalk, Alk would drop one number each day. With Kalk in my top off at 1 tsp per gal it takes 3 days for the same drop..
Evap is just over a gal a day.

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mcarroll

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Great thread!

I haven't read the whole thing yet (wow - a lot of pages - too little time!) but here are a few thoughts that I haven't seen so far:

All the Kalk ractors do somewhat assume that you won't be dosing more than the reactor's volume in any given dose. For most people this is no big deal because the way most of you design your sumps the return chamber is tiny and even a big water-level drop doesn't amount to much water. If you use a large sump, or your return chamber is large or you use a less sensitive ATO probe like the Blueline Tsunami AT1, you might have a problem with getting some kalk powder in your tank. (May not cause issues - some even dose kalk-milk on purpose - but good to be aware of this. I take care to avoid it.) The Tunze 5074 and the TLF reactor both have about a liter of usable water in them.

I have a large sump without baffles, so the whole thing is my return chamber. I cannot use an ATO like the Tsunami because it allows 1" of play in the water level - which across the surface of my sump amounts to almost 2 gallons of water. I switched to a reed-switch ATO (Ultralife) and have been fine - only about 1/8" of play in the sump water level, maybe less. In theory one could run multiple reactors in parallel to work around this, but that's a pricey solution for me.

Another thing is the addition of vinegar. This is a great way mitigate almost all the possible negative side-effects associated with kalk and boost the mineral output of your kalk reactor - whether you use a discreet reactor or premix kalk in your RO container. Here's the best, most consolidated guide to vinegar+kalk that I've found, but of course read everything you can on reefkeeping.com as well.

Personally, my 100 gallon system evaporates about 5 gallons per week (1500 sq in of surface area open), so I use the Tunze 5074 in my 5 gallon RO bucket. (Tunze and USPlastic sell a 7 gallon bucket if you need larger and can't find one.) I drive it with my Ultralife ATO that's hooked up to a standard Rio 800 pump. I've measured (with Salifert) the effluent from the 5074 (used as directed) at 100ppm Ca from the reactor - up to 200ppm with the addition of vinegar to the RO bucket in the ratio recommended in the above guide. (If you also want to be dosing vinegar you can overdose beyond their recommendation....that's for another thread tho.)

I've been about 3 years or so with this rig. I have massive SPS colonies (mostly Monti and birdsnests - fast growers) so I also heavily dose two-part, but this method of dosing kalk works great! In theory, one could increase the quantity of kalk+vinegar (still in the ratio above) to get whatever ppm effluent they need, but I never got into experimenting with that...too much else to do! :)

-Matt
 
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DeeFromBrooklyn

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How has this unit worked for you? I have had problems with dosing Kalk in the past with PH fluctuations and results can be a nightmare. I'd like to get your conclusion on this. How's your tank look now?
 

mcarroll

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How has this unit worked for you? I have had problems with dosing Kalk in the past with PH fluctuations and results can be a nightmare. I'd like to get your conclusion on this. How's your tank look now?

Kalk is great, but for me it's just something to supplement 2-part dosing and water changes. Without ratcheting up the vinegar ratio linked above (which should be emminently doable) I'd never cover the whole dosing need of my system.

Also, I try to keep up with my alkalinity testing, so obsessing over every pH swing doen't enter into the picture. :)

If you want to avoid the pH issues and to still only use kalk, then I would highly recommend using the vinegar ratio and premixing your kalk and/or getting a reactor like the 5074. I'd recommend testing every day for the week that you are putting this regime in place so you can compensate for adjustments immediately as well as to note rates of consumption for calculating your most-correct dose.

-Matt
 

bmac16

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has anyone ever tried kalk on a ulns(pellets)??....i wonder if it will sustain calcium without blowing alk levels? maybe low doses or something...i may have to try it!
 

DeeFromBrooklyn

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I still stick to the 2 part dosing but have found Alk stability by lowering the amount of kalk mix with RO/DI top off. This is been going well but as mentioned by BMAC doesn't keep the calcium levels where I want them.
 

bmac16

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Even if it slows down the fluctuation of the cal I would think it would still help being a little more stable then no Kalk, and the ph stability, right?
 

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I just started mixing Kalk on my ATO. I go through a 5 gal container in a week as far as evap goes. Since I started doing the Kalk on my ATO (was doing 2-part) my Calc has gone through the roof (500+), PH has gone up to 8.6 but my Alk has stayed at about 8.4 dkh. With 2-part I was keeping params at 9dkh Alk, 450 Calc and PH around 8.1-8.2. All I did was mix 8 tsp of Kalk in a 5 gal ATO container, mixed it, and let it sit overnight before I hooked it up. Do I need to lower the tsp? What would you recommend for a 55 gal mixed reef with quite a few SPS frags?
 

mcarroll

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Dose Rate
I would lower the tsp by 50% (and dilute your ATO bucket with 100% more water) at least - maybe even go back to straight RO water for top-off until the numbers normalize with water changes, then resume at 50% dose-rate. Also consider getting a reactor to dose your kalk.

Reactor
Tunze's 5074 (my preference) or TLF's reactor are both nice, simple solutions. Tunze gets my nod since it's based on airline-sized tubing and thus can be run by an Aqua Lifter if you don't have Tunze's pump (which costs about the same as an Aqua Lifter, FYI...no reason not to use it.). Never a need for ball valves or any worry about flow rate.

Ca and Alkalinity Usage
Additionally, from your results, there may be close to zero Ca usage in your system. Especially after you consider the effect of your water changes. (You should have a pretty rigorous water change schedule prior to needing to dose kalk, IMO. 20-25% per week or more could be done. Reef Crystals will give you the added Alk buffer you're missing in your test numbers.)

Alkalinity has other factors which can trend it down hard enough to need dosing before coral usage becomes a factor and causes Ca dosing to be necessary too. Did you record any data on Ca and alkalinity levels prior to dosing? You should have (or could have, anyway) seen some indication of this "lopsided" usage there too.

Water Changes
If you have not already, I would suggest maximizing the impact you can have with water changes (no more than 10-20%/day and you can do a water change almost every day....I did 10% daily for quite a while.) while easing your way into dosing using a steady rhythm of testing along the way. Two part is a simpler approach to begin dosing with, IMHO. Kalk is easy to use within a two-part dosing scheme, however as you have the experience.



<soapbox>
This case is a good example (thank you for posting and not just lurking angrycubano!) of why I actually recommend folks start out with a quality commercial supplement - Brightwell being my main preference - vs "DIY" type infredients. The reason being: proper instructions. Their instructions for use of two-part, Ca, Alk, kalk and the basics are the best I've seen. Specifically, the liquid Calcion and Alkalin8.3 products are the best of the best and what I recommend most people to start with. They actually give you a good basic understanding, product concentration levels, not just a dosing rate. These two products (along with a lot of reading and testing) got me through the first three years of my reef with verifiably excellent, consistent product. :)

You'll pay more for Brightwell's product on a per-weight basis, but how much are the instructions on the side of the container worth when they would have steered you clear of this experience? And you would have known the concentration of the product you were adding, so you would have known to avoid this outcome. :) (Not asking/picking on U angrycubano, I swear...this goes for "anyone." We've all gone through some version of this. :) :) :)) Once you're done with the need for those instructions is the time when you should graduate to DIY type ingredients such as what you are using. Makes sense in another way too. Money. When you're at the beginning and need those instructions the most, you're really not dosing any significant volume of product, so the price isn't really all the great for the name brand product. DIY comes to the rescue when your corals are big and dosing starts to get heavy! Smart!​
</soapbox>

Just my $0.02. :angel:

-Matt
 

_sludgefactory

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I just add 6 teaspoons to my 5 gallon jug and top of as needed and it works just fine. So much better than 2 part! Cal and alk always stay nice and steady. Eventually I'm going to make an ato.

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angrycubano

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Dose Rate
I would lower the tsp by 50% (and dilute your ATO bucket with 100% more water) at least - maybe even go back to straight RO water for top-off until the numbers normalize with water changes, then resume at 50% dose-rate. Also consider getting a reactor to dose your kalk.

Reactor
Tunze's 5074 (my preference) or TLF's reactor are both nice, simple solutions. Tunze gets my nod since it's based on airline-sized tubing and thus can be run by an Aqua Lifter if you don't have Tunze's pump (which costs about the same as an Aqua Lifter, FYI...no reason not to use it.). Never a need for ball valves or any worry about flow rate.

Ca and Alkalinity Usage
Additionally, from your results, there may be close to zero Ca usage in your system. Especially after you consider the effect of your water changes. (You should have a pretty rigorous water change schedule prior to needing to dose kalk, IMO. 20-25% per week or more could be done. Reef Crystals will give you the added Alk buffer you're missing in your test numbers.)

Alkalinity has other factors which can trend it down hard enough to need dosing before coral usage becomes a factor and causes Ca dosing to be necessary too. Did you record any data on Ca and alkalinity levels prior to dosing? You should have (or could have, anyway) seen some indication of this "lopsided" usage there too.

Water Changes
If you have not already, I would suggest maximizing the impact you can have with water changes (no more than 10-20%/day and you can do a water change almost every day....I did 10% daily for quite a while.) while easing your way into dosing using a steady rhythm of testing along the way. Two part is a simpler approach to begin dosing with, IMHO. Kalk is easy to use within a two-part dosing scheme, however as you have the experience.



<soapbox>
This case is a good example (thank you for posting and not just lurking angrycubano!) of why I actually recommend folks start out with a quality commercial supplement - Brightwell being my main preference - vs "DIY" type infredients. The reason being: proper instructions. Their instructions for use of two-part, Ca, Alk, kalk and the basics are the best I've seen. Specifically, the liquid Calcion and Alkalin8.3 products are the best of the best and what I recommend most people to start with. They actually give you a good basic understanding, product concentration levels, not just a dosing rate. These two products (along with a lot of reading and testing) got me through the first three years of my reef with verifiably excellent, consistent product. :)

You'll pay more for Brightwell's product on a per-weight basis, but how much are the instructions on the side of the container worth when they would have steered you clear of this experience? And you would have known the concentration of the product you were adding, so you would have known to avoid this outcome. :) (Not asking/picking on U angrycubano, I swear...this goes for "anyone." We've all gone through some version of this. :) :) :)) Once you're done with the need for those instructions is the time when you should graduate to DIY type ingredients such as what you are using. Makes sense in another way too. Money. When you're at the beginning and need those instructions the most, you're really not dosing any significant volume of product, so the price isn't really all the great for the name brand product. DIY comes to the rescue when your corals are big and dosing starts to get heavy! Smart!​
</soapbox>

Just my $0.02. :angel:

-Matt

Great info man. Thanks a bunch.
 

MBG75

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Using the same, Brightwells Kalk +2. It's a 75 mixed reef. Before Kalk, Alk would drop one number each day. With Kalk in my top off at 1 tsp per gal it takes 3 days for the same drop..
Evap is just over a gal a day.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

Update. Since using kalk in top off along with dosing pump for cal alk mag. My tank has taken off. Amazing growth and color.
 

ionix

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Cheap and easy.. Says the guy with all these doodads in his sump area. I feel like the oldest 22 year old at this point. Hahaha.
 

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