Is this encrusting cyanobacteria?

[fersann]

Hello Reefing Community
Im looking for knowledge or some one who can help.

I tought my tank was doing great, i tought my tank was full of coraline algae. A wired looking coraline algae.

• it looks a bit more red or violet.
• it has a different kind of texture, almost as a sponge but a bit compact.
• It wont detach from the rock work with a turkey blaster.
• It grows on top of coraline algae and on rock.
• This thing keeps my phosphate levels on 0.00 and every time i add phosphates, this thing consumes all the phosphates.
• It doesn’t produce bubbles as normal cyanobacteria
• It can be pealed off(i can peal it off with my nail but only small pieces will come off)
• Brushing it wont help much.
• Vibrant will help (it disolves it and turn it into normal stringy, hairy cyanobacteria with bubbles)
• It has a grade of fluorescence (coraline algae doesnt have fluorescence)

I want to keep stable phosphate leveles and it seems the only way is getting rid of it.

Does some one knows how do i get rid of it?

In fact my corals are doing good, they are laking of color and i think it is because of the low phosphates

My tank levels are:

-Alk 8
-Cal 420
-Mag 1400
-Nitrates 12.5
-Phospahtes 0.00 (hanna phosphorus ULR says 0)
-Temp 77 F
-Ph 8.1 to 8.3
-Salinity 1.025

I used to feed my corals “reef roids”. Last time i feed with reef roids was 6 months ago.

 

[Dan_P]

@taricha, this resembles a firm mat of cyanobacteria. I can only suggest a microscope to diagnose this plague. Thought?

 

[taricha]

there are some types of "encrusting" algae that don't actually make a calcified crust.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-red-turf-algae-battle.365765/

 

[Spare time]

I wonder if an urchin will eat it. I usually hesitate to recommend urchins though as usually they eat all the algae we want and ignore the algae we don't want lol

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello Reefing Community
Im looking for knowledge or some one who can help.

I tought my tank was doing great, i tought my tank was full of coraline algae. A wired looking coraline algae.

• it looks a bit more red or violet.
• it has a different kind of texture, almost as a sponge but a bit compact.
• It wont detach from the rock work with a turkey blaster.
• It grows on top of coraline algae and on rock.
• This thing keeps my phosphate levels on 0.00 and every time i add phosphates, this thing consumes all the phosphates.
• It doesn’t produce bubbles as normal cyanobacteria
• It can be pealed off(i can peal it off with my nail but only small pieces will come off)
• Brushing it wont help much.
• Vibrant will help (it disolves it and turn it into normal stringy, hairy cyanobacteria with bubbles)
• It has a grade of fluorescence (coraline algae doesnt have fluorescence)

I want to keep stable phosphate leveles and it seems the only way is getting rid of it.

Does some one knows how do i get rid of it?

In fact my corals are doing good, they are laking of color and i think it is because of the low phosphates

My tank levels are:

-Alk 8
-Cal 420
-Mag 1400
-Nitrates 12.5
-Phospahtes 0.00 (hanna phosphorus ULR says 0)
-Temp 77 F
-Ph 8.1 to 8.3
-Salinity 1.025

I used to feed my corals “reef roids”. Last time i feed with reef roids was 6 months ago.

Looks more like film than encrustment. One way to tell is to apply gentle bursts from a turkey baster. Film will fall apart while encrustment will remain steady or be stubborn

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Hello Reefing Community
Im looking for knowledge or some one who can help.

I tought my tank was doing great, i tought my tank was full of coraline algae. A wired looking coraline algae.

• it looks a bit more red or violet.
• it has a different kind of texture, almost as a sponge but a bit compact.
• It wont detach from the rock work with a turkey blaster.
• It grows on top of coraline algae and on rock.
• This thing keeps my phosphate levels on 0.00 and every time i add phosphates, this thing consumes all the phosphates.
• It doesn’t produce bubbles as normal cyanobacteria
• It can be pealed off(i can peal it off with my nail but only small pieces will come off)
• Brushing it wont help much.
• Vibrant will help (it disolves it and turn it into normal stringy, hairy cyanobacteria with bubbles)
• It has a grade of fluorescence (coraline algae doesnt have fluorescence)

I want to keep stable phosphate leveles and it seems the only way is getting rid of it.

Does some one knows how do i get rid of it?

In fact my corals are doing good, they are laking of color and i think it is because of the low phosphates

My tank levels are:

-Alk 8
-Cal 420
-Mag 1400
-Nitrates 12.5
-Phospahtes 0.00 (hanna phosphorus ULR says 0)
-Temp 77 F
-Ph 8.1 to 8.3
-Salinity 1.025

I used to feed my corals “reef roids”. Last time i feed with reef roids was 6 months ago.

I've had the "spongy" cyano before. I could peel pieces off the rock and it almost had a leathery feel. I don't have any secrets for keeping it from returning, but manually removing from the rocks (using tweezers if cleaning in-tank or a toothbrush outside of the tank) seemed to work for me. In my tank, it spread slowly and didn't directly bother coral, and was definitely preferable to regular cyano.

 

[fersann]

Looks more like film than encrustment. One way to tell is to apply gentle bursts from a turkey baster. Film will fall apart while encrustment will remain steady or be stubborn

• It wont detach from the rock work with a turkey blaster.

I can't remove it even if I scrub it with a toothbrush.

 

[vetteguy53081]

• It wont detach from the rock work with a turkey blaster.

I can't remove it even if I scrub it with a toothbrush.

If it feels soft to the touch, may be turf algae or encrusting sponge such as Chirolophis, Caryophyllia or Peyssonnelia

 

[encrustingacro]

Is it hard? I've seen red coralline similar to this.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

This pic actually does look quite like a sponge (the first pic not so much). The first pic does look more like a coralline to me, and coralline can sometimes fluoresce (in some cases brightly).

That said, I agree with Dan_P that microscope pics of samples from both pics would be helpful here.

 

[Cell]

I've got some of this stuff in my tank. It is hard and slippery and does not scrape off easily. Here is some growing on a frag rack.

 

[deanos]

i have this to at first it was looking like nice caroline but now its all over the tank and started suffocating the corals the sps does not want to crust on it and the zoa does not want to grow on it realy hope that there is some way to remove it.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

i have this to at first it was looking like nice caroline but now its all over the tank and started suffocating the corals the sps does not want to crust on it and the zoa does not want to grow on it realy hope that there is some way to remove it.

Assuming it's a sponge (which I would guess yours is), there's always manual removal with peeling it off like mentioned above, or you can try some of the methods below:

For removal:
I've heard of some good removal success rates with the injection method (described below), but that may be risky with the sponge being on the zoas.

The best way I've heard to control sponge growth at this point is to use a steel straw to scrape and siphon out the sponge you want to remove. Sometimes you can create bad conditions for them and kill them off that way, but that's typically much harder and not always effective.

Some other sponge removal methods:

Other suggestions include exposing the sponge to air (obviously not a guaranteed solution, and definitely not viable for this situation); hydrogen peroxide dipping the sponge (again, not viable here); injecting the sponge with hydrogen peroxide, vinegar, boiling water, or air; microbubbles in the display; and a few more. Predation is not usually a good solution for this issue

Basically, if the sponges have enough food and enough trace elements (which for most sponges includes silicates) to meet their needs, then you’ll see their populations booming.

If you can figure out what’s allowing them to thrive in your tank, then you can deal with that root cause and get rid of them.

Some people may suggest scrubbing with a soft toothbrush to try and avoid irritating the zoas.

Also, with regards to zoas and palys in case this is an issue for your tank:

Yeah, if you do scrub it off in a bowl of tank water, since it's growing on palys, you may want to run carbon in the bowl to absorb any toxins.

Any scrubbing with zoas/palys should be done in a very well ventilated area, and you should be aware of the symptoms of palytoxin poisoning just to be safe:

Palytoxin Poisoning: Marine Aquarium Safety | SA Health

Palytoxin poisoning: Zoanthid coral species can contain Palytoxin and cause dangerous symptoms if not handled carefully. Protect your family with these aquarium tips.

www.sahealth.sa.gov.au

To add, some sponges have incredible regenerative capabilities, so multiple removals may be necessary, and doing what you can to minimize the odds of remaining sponge cells ending up back in your tank is recommended:

I would try the scraping with a steel straw/brushing with a toothbrush and siphoning out for that one in particular - if you can do this is a bowl of saltwater out of the tank (I don't recommend adding the water to the tank after) and rinse with clean saltwater (not from the bowl) afterwards, that would be even better.

I should clarify here - the scraping and siphoning method I refer to literally siphons through the straw as you scrape to try and prevent spreading (this is also why I recommend doing this in a bowl outside of the tank).

 

[Cell]

This stuff does not peel off. It is hard and slippery and doesn't even scrape off easily.

 

[deanos]

Assuming it's a sponge (which I would guess yours is), there's always manual removal with peeling it off like mentioned above, or you can try some of the methods below:

For removal:
I've heard of some good removal success rates with the injection method (described below), but that may be risky with the sponge being on the zoas.

Any scrubbing with zoas/palys should be done in a very well ventilated area, and you should be aware of the symptoms of palytoxin poisoning just to be safe:

Palytoxin Poisoning: Marine Aquarium Safety | SA Health

Palytoxin poisoning: Zoanthid coral species can contain Palytoxin and cause dangerous symptoms if not handled carefully. Protect your family with these aquarium tips.

www.sahealth.sa.gov.au

To add, some sponges have incredible regenerative capabilities, so multiple removals may be necessary, and doing what you can to minimize the odds of remaining sponge cells ending up back in your tank is recommended:

it not sponge it like caroline if i want to remove it from the rock i need to use scraper its really crust there it does not peel off with the hand and with tothbrush and if i leave the rock out of the water for 1 hour and put it back in it does not die so i do not think its sponge

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

it not sponge it like caroline if i want to remove it from the rock i need to use scraper its really crust there it does not peel off with the hand and with tothbrush and if i leave the rock out of the water for 1 hour and put it back in it does not die so i do not think its sponge

Well, it's definitely possible that I'm wrong - I guessed yours is a sponge because it seems to have a few osculum (the out-current holes of a sponge) in the pic (similar to the second pic the OP posted), mostly on the right side of the pic; but it could be just odd shapes of the rock underneath.

With regards to the air exposure, not every sponge dies from air exposure (some may, but many don't):

I've heard this too, but I strongly question the validity of it because numerous sponge species are found in the intertidal zone and are exposed to air with every low tide (see the link below). That said, it's possible that it may be able to cause problems for some species (see the quote below), but your method of releasing the air bubbles is what I would've done/suggested anyway as a precaution.

Again, I personally doubt this is actually an issue. This subject reminds me of the confirmedly false myth that starfish die when exposed to air; in reality they only die from prolonged air exposure, similar to how we humans die from prolonged water exposure (submersion). For starfish, a quick trip through the air won't kill it, and I'd imagine the same holds true for most (if not all) sponges.

So, I'd assume that as long as your tank can provide the proper environment and care for the sponge, it'll recover from any problems.

Splendid Sponges (Intertidal)

An interactive guide to the intertidal sponges of New Zealand.

niwa.co.nz

Agreed - it seems to be a very nicely colored sponge.

With regards to sponges dying when exposed to air, my understanding is that they essentially get air trapped inside their structure and slowly desiccate and/or starve from not being able to continuously filter the water in and out of their body. I wonder if this condition could be treated successfully using methods similar to how one "burps" a clam or a nautilus (i.e. I'm curious if slowly rotating it 360 degrees underwater multiple times would help relieve the problem/release the air from inside the sponge). I suppose with a sponge you would likely need to rotate it 360 degrees in a number of different directions (i.e. top to bottom, side to side, diagonals, etc.) and/or possibly expose it to some flow while "burping" it to help dislodge any bubbles in the spicules, but - in my mind/in theory at least - it seems like it would help.

Regardless, hitting it with hydrogen peroxide, vinegar, or lemon juice may or may not still help - it might be worth a shot.

If it is coralline, an urchin may help, as many urchins eat coralline.

Again, microscope pics would help with an ID (which would help with a course of treatment).

 

[deanos]

here some more pics it even encrust to the snails

 

[Cell]

That's definitely the stuff. I have a couple snails that look like that as well.

 

[fersann]

Update.

I did found an algae that looks a lot like ours “Ref Encrusting Lobophora”

I started using “vibrant for salat water aquariums”

1. My feather dusters are gone (thats a bad thing)
2. This algae is shrinking
3. My phosphates levels are slowly going up (.06 phoaphates)
4. Now i have the real stringy and slimy Cyano. (This is also a bad thing but i know how to control it)

I will keep on using vibrant, my priority us to have stable phosphates.

 

[Cell]

Vibrant is well known around these parts.

Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

The purpose of this post is to look closely at Vibrant to compare its properties to a known algaecide, Algaefix by API. This is intended to shed light on the active ingredients in Vibrant, explain its mechanism of action, and give people insight into its use and what to expect. It is not a...

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