Maintaining Alkalinity at high level (12 dKH) - Accelerated Coral Growth?

[Daniel@R2R]

Really interesting dialogue. Following!

 

[Spcoley1]

Following

 

[hart24601]

Hey Randy, I remember a couple papers showing less bleaching and greater growth with pH above 8.0, but I think that was using NSW. Do you think raising alk could be influencing coals partially the same mechanism?

 

[bif24701]

Red Sea’s research into the long term physiological demands of SPS, LPS & Soft Corals in the reef aquarium has shown that enhanced coloration and accelerated growth require significantly different water conditions.

Just like their Red Sea Coral Pro Salt, when mixed at 1.025 SG, it brings the Alk to 11.8 - 12.2 dKH, which Sharon Ram (Chief Scientist @ Red Sea) claimed a level that is good for accelerated coral growth.

What's your take on this elevated Alk @ 12.6 dKH? Have you had experience in the past raising it and maintaining the level of Alkalinity at high level (12 dKH) accelerates the growth of coral? or on contrary, some folks mentioned that they've experienced RTN or burnt tips?

These recommended number include the fact you will be dosing their Reef Energy A&B. If you don't supply your coral with some kind of simple carbohydrates and AA like the A&B Red Sea program you will fail.

I did the program and feel it worked. However I got more precipitation and required more dosing to maintain ALK and Cal. I now shoot for 9-10 dKH and slightly elevated nutrients with heavy feeding. Works for me.

 

[potatocouch]

These recommended number include the fact you will be dosing their Reef Energy A&B. If you don't supply your coral with some kind of simple carbohydrates and AA like the A&B Red Sea program you will fail.

I did the program and feel it worked. However I got more precipitation and required more dosing to maintain ALK and Cal. I now shoot for 9-10 dKH and slightly elevated nutrients with heavy feeding. Works for me.

@bif24701 yes I'm aware of that
While we're on that subject, do you (or anyone) know if Reef Energy A & B is amino acid?
Is reef roids amino acid?
Is Reef Energy A & B == Reef Roids?

 

[bif24701]

@bif24701 yes I'm aware of that
While we're on that subject, do you (or anyone) know if Reef Energy A & B is amino acid?
Is reef roids amino acid?
Is Reef Energy A & B == Reef Roids?

Reef roids is a food, like Reef chili.

Reef energy A&B is Amino Acid and Carbohydrates.

You could use other AA and/or carbohydrates supplements.

The most important thing here is you need to have ULNS already. If you have high nutrients and feed a lot already I don't think you even need the supplements. Would be too much.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey Randy, I remember a couple papers showing less bleaching and greater growth with pH above 8.0, but I think that was using NSW. Do you think raising alk could be influencing coals partially the same mechanism?

Bleaching above pH 8.0? You mean alkalinity?

 

[hart24601]

Sorry if I wasn't clear Randy.

Bleaching was increased and calcification decreased at 7.85-7.95 at temps we use in the hobby:
Ocean acidification causes bleaching and productivity loss in coral reef builders

http://sigarra.up.pt/icbas/pt/publs_pesquisa.show_publ_file?pct_gdoc_id=11431


I am curious if you think the results above would be mitigated (less bleaching and better calcification) if they were keeping alkalinity about natural sea water levels or if it might be the same mechanism at play since pH is mostly CO2 and alk.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Oh, yes, low pH is a big concern for natural reefs, and in a reef tank, higher alk may help offset that concern.

Some recent studies have also found that corals may adapt to lower pH when grown in it for extended periods. It takes more energy for them to do so, but the effects were not as bad as some had thought.

 

[franklypre]

The Italians have been doing it for decades, they call it Blu Coral Method, it works well and the results are hard to beat. I've used it and pappone with success in the past and have chosen it as the method for our current system.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The Italians have been doing it for decades, they call it Blu Coral Method, it works well and the results are hard to beat. I've used it and pappone with success in the past and have chosen it as the method for our current system.

Doing what? Maintaining high alkalinity?

 

[franklypre]

Yessir, high nutrients and elevated alk as well as calc. It also uses sugar in the pappone for a carbon source.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yessir, high nutrients and elevated alk as well as calc. It also uses sugar in the pappone for a carbon source.

OK, thanks. Certainly the fact that high alkalinity boosts calcification has been known even in the scientific literature for decades.

 

[Alfrareef]

The Italians have been doing it for decades, they call it Blu Coral Method, it works well and the results are hard to beat. I've used it and pappone with success in the past and have chosen it as the method for our current system.

Blue coral method... the anti-zeo method.
Now that I was on the right track, blue coral method appears in my life. Back to school... now trying to understand the effect of overdosing KH/Ca/Mg.

 

[crowndroyal]

I was actually at a Red Sea talk , with some quest speakers and it was suggested that it was not all just alk it was other trace element as well , I know I am not really adding anything to the conversation just thought it was a cool show and great info.

They were mostly talking about the trace elements what to add and what parameters to dose with the grow fast corals or have slow growing coral with great color.

 

[OrlandoReefer]

I happen to run a mixed reef tank with an alk at 12dkh that is also high nutrient system. It has been running this way for a solid month and I have actually witnessed that my softies and lps have begun to grow much slower some even showing no growth at all in the past month, when just three months ago they were taking off, color is great but nothing significantly different then when system was at an alk of 9 dkh, like I said this is a high nutrient system that is fully stocked with multiple sps, lps, and softy but it seems the only thing benefiting are the sps in regards to growth which has really increased in the past month everything else is actually starting to look worse than when alk was 9-10 dkh. I do see how burnt tips could occur but in my system I have not seen this in my sps maybe because of the amount of nutrients in the system, color in my sps has gotten worse but not in a significant way I am still maintaining beautiful coloration just not what I was getting before. Overall the high alk in my system hasn't really been so beneficial as to the point where I would keep it this way I am actually in the process of slowing dropping the alk back to 9 dkh

 

[Dramad1]

Following.

 

[Quah]

Good topic - following.

 

[Eric G]

If i remember correctly from Dana's talk at MACNA ( I had a few drinks already) another key factor was with too much light photosynthesis decreases.

 

[Luvs501s]

If i remember correctly from Dana's talk at MACNA ( I had a few drinks already) another key factor was with too much light photosynthesis decreases.

I believe he said that somewhat lower light with 12.0ish alk and very good water movement was what spurred growth in the Porites he was working with. He said that it might possibly be species related and might not apply to all corals. That said, hopefully accurately, I have pretty much had these same conditions in my tank and have had my best luck with both growth and coloration. IMHO.