Metal Halides Making a Come Back? Don’t call it a come back?
- Thread starter plippert21
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Halides are awesome. I used them for many years.
I run full leds now and will never go back.
You will get many that say leds cant compete. They come to these threads and bash leds saying many stupid things.
After 30+ years in the hobby, only the last 4 years with leds, I can fully say that leds can grow anything you want, "if you know how to maintain a reef system".
They are on the decline, imo.
I hope this does not turn into the mine is better than yours thread, as they always do.
Peace fellow reefers and run whatever makes you happy.
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plippert21
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Totally agree. This is definitely not discussion around which is better. That conversation is old, tired, and pretty unknowable.
Back about 15 years ago Halides were popular. T5s were the new(ish) rage. Lots of people chose the T5s, as they didn't heat the tank up so much. I chose T5s and still have the TEK 8x54W system I bought used way back in the day. It's what I plan on using (until I can afford LEDs) when my 120G goes up. With the advent of LEDs, I cannot imagine that either Halides or T5s will ever make a comeback. LEDs have SO much more to offer then either of these choices.
ca1ore
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There are always hold outs for older technology …. for myriad reasons (I still use vacuum tube amps in my sound system). In the absence of actual data, I go with my gut on these kinds of things and picked response #1. There will also always be folks that ‘return’ to an older technology. Whether these folks offset those leaving seems unlikely. As older MH generation reefers inevitably leave the hobby, it’s hard to see younger generations embracing MH in meaningful numbers (it would be interesting to do an age distribution of folks using MH). Put a fork in it!
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plippert21
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Brings up an interesting point around the technology of LEDs possibly evolving to bridge the gap between the suspected downside of LEDs vs. MH. Eg UVB. Obviously there are a lot of companies (Ecotech, etc) putting real dollars in progressing their LED technology.
As someone re-entering the hobby after 12yrs, I’m still trying to warm up to LED. They have a lot of pluses but after taking PAR readings, their spread/coverage is anything but intuitive. Borderline random. Places that would be obvious hot spots under MH aren’t. Power hungry for sure, MH coverage is so much better IMO.
But let’s face it, the proverbial wind is definitely blowing away from traditional power hungry technologies. Just try to find a common incandescent bulb these days.
But let’s face it, the proverbial wind is definitely blowing away from traditional power hungry technologies. Just try to find a common incandescent bulb these days.
Man, I hear that about vacuum tube tech! I don't have those in my sound system, but I DO run old tech because it's just plain better with music. I am running a 70s Radio Shack STA- 2100D receiver. Sixty (or so) watts per channel. Wonderful. Those RS receivers were great. A horribly underrated product. I started with an STA-95 (45W/channel when I was a kid). I have two of those I'm gonna have redone.
Is it really THAT good? I'm asking cause my last tank was 12 years ago. I have an old TEK 8x54W 48". Worked great back in the day.
I run metal halide and will for at least around the next 10 years or so when I run out of bulbs. Super simple to use.
I will admit, LED is just as good, however there’s a lack of coverage in my opinion compared to number of fixtures. Like I can get the same coverage out of 2 halide fixtures that would likely take 4 led fixtures. That said, I hear a lot of harping on “energy use this or that.” Many of the best LED fixtures are pushing 250w or so (a bit less) so there’s minimal energy savings for me.
With that I voted lack of options. I feel if we had the same or similar options as we had back in the day of halides, with the same amount of knowledge of halides, the use would be higher than what it is today, though likely still less than what it once was.
I will admit, LED is just as good, however there’s a lack of coverage in my opinion compared to number of fixtures. Like I can get the same coverage out of 2 halide fixtures that would likely take 4 led fixtures. That said, I hear a lot of harping on “energy use this or that.” Many of the best LED fixtures are pushing 250w or so (a bit less) so there’s minimal energy savings for me.
With that I voted lack of options. I feel if we had the same or similar options as we had back in the day of halides, with the same amount of knowledge of halides, the use would be higher than what it is today, though likely still less than what it once was.
JNalley
Valuable Member
I voted option 1 because it's definitely on the way out, just like incandescent bulbs, fluorescent bulbs, etc. LED is the future of lighting, not just for reefs, for quite literally everything. It's getting hard to find cars with HID Projectors anymore, they're all also going the way of LED.
I started in the hobby 20+ years ago, I had Metal Halides and T5's over a 55gallon, then a couple of years later, they introduced T5's with LED moonlights, so I used those for quite a while. Dropped out of the hobby for a few years and came back to LEDs dominating the market. Since then, I've tried Radeon, AI, and many others. I decided to try Kessil out and purchased an AP9X several months ago... This is the closest my tank has looked to my old 55G since I returned to the hobby. Eventually I will pick up 2 LED Bars/Strips that mimic T5 Actinics and call it a day...
At 85% power (Total Power is only 185 watts), PAR is 600+ 9" below the surface across the tops of my rocks, at 25% I am getting 350-400 across. It's mounted over a 3 foot tank 7.5" off the water. It runs cool, it gives me the shimmer, the spectrum is pretty close to spectacular including the 385nm UVB bump. To the folks out there who want the MH look and feel without all the heat and power usage, definitely grab a kessil.
I started in the hobby 20+ years ago, I had Metal Halides and T5's over a 55gallon, then a couple of years later, they introduced T5's with LED moonlights, so I used those for quite a while. Dropped out of the hobby for a few years and came back to LEDs dominating the market. Since then, I've tried Radeon, AI, and many others. I decided to try Kessil out and purchased an AP9X several months ago... This is the closest my tank has looked to my old 55G since I returned to the hobby. Eventually I will pick up 2 LED Bars/Strips that mimic T5 Actinics and call it a day...
At 85% power (Total Power is only 185 watts), PAR is 600+ 9" below the surface across the tops of my rocks, at 25% I am getting 350-400 across. It's mounted over a 3 foot tank 7.5" off the water. It runs cool, it gives me the shimmer, the spectrum is pretty close to spectacular including the 385nm UVB bump. To the folks out there who want the MH look and feel without all the heat and power usage, definitely grab a kessil.
Reefering1
Valuable Member
All I hear is closest thing, looks like and good enough.. and if it's good enough for your needs, great! But don't forget about coverage. soon as the sticks grow- you have big shadows behind it. Leds aim lights down, where as halides radiate light at all angles(like the sun) and the reflector redirects it down in dozens of angles. You pretty much need double the fixtures they recommend to get the coverage. Totally different thing. More pronounced as the tank gets bigger/with bigger sps colonies. Do leds work, obviously they do. But for a 6' foot tank, that could mean $5k in lights every 4-7 years. Or I could change 3 250w bulbs every year or 2 for $250 total(each time) , and be like new again. To some people that just doesn't make sense
11 years earlier .....
Bridging the old & new: revisiting halides after some time with LEDs | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog
Over the last few years, I migrated every reef tank I have to LED, even a little freshwater nano is running LED. I think there is a huge future in LEDs and switching to LED changed my view on lighting…
reefbuilders.com
JNalley
Valuable Member
While you're correct, LEDs only emit light from their face outward, at about a 170-degree angle from the chip in most cases; the added lenses, reflectors, or combination of the two being employed, ensure that light is also spread out and bounced around from the reflectors and the tank walls, just as the reflectors for Metal Halides did. My Metal Halides put sharp shadows in my tank just like my Kessils do, which is why I opted for T5s to supplement the Metal Halides in the first place. The MH reflectors didn't bounce the lights all around, eliminating shadows, as you're sort of claiming here; the T5s did. I mean, watch this video around the 20second mark; lit only by Metal Halides, it's nearly identical to the look of Kessils (this tank vs mine, the Kessils have slightly more shimmer, this tank actually has darker more pronounced shadows, but both things could be chalked up to poor camera settings or equipment):
The fact is, my tank today, looks very much like my tank of old. The only difference I have noticed is because of the way the reflectors are on the AP9X, light on the left has a slight leftward angle, and light on the right has a slight rightward angle; again because of the reflector design (and the lights goal to cover a 36" x 24" rectangle instead of a square).
For a 6' x 2' x 2' tank, you only need 2x $879 lights (each AP9X covers 3' x 2' x 2' for an SPS dominant system), and I don't know why you think LEDs will need to be replaced every 4-7 years; that's certainly not the case. LEDs generally remain good for 50,000 hours (some as high as 100,000 hours) at the lower end of things, that puts replacement, running 12 hours per day, at around 11.5 years, this will be much longer if you don't run your lights at 100%. I just retired my AI Hydra 26HDs and replaced them with this Kessil, and those lights are 9 years old, I only retired them because I wanted something a bit more modern looking, and AI's quality control for their diodes sucks, one side of the tank was always a bit whiter than the other during sunrise and sunset times, and I still use them to light my refugium inside the stand).
You're also comparing the replacement of bulbs versus purchasing new fixtures; you will be replacing bulbs every 2 years at $250. Over the course of (a minimum of) 11 years, that's 5 bulb replacements, which is $1,000 in bulbs, plus buying a MH fixture and ballasts these days is around what, $300-400? So, we're exceeding $1600 at this point, and the bulbs are becoming rarer, as are the fixtures/ballasts, which is driving costs up, and replacing them will become more and more expensive over time.
Don't get me wrong. In your situation, where you already have the ballasts and fixtures and are replacing bulbs only, it is slightly more economical for you (Unless my LEDs last 22 years, which I suspect they will). But for anyone needing to purchase a new lighting solution/replace their metal halides because ballasts burned out or went bad, there's no way I would recommend someone go out and buy new ballasts, fixtures, and bulbs over simply purchasing a Kessil. And if you want the MH + T5 look, it's as simple as adding either a T5 fixture or getting 2 LED light bars that mimic T5s to pair with the Kessils...
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