My first attempt raising clownfish

[SillyReef]

Not clowning around...

 

[ReeferMadness09]

New project- raising some pure Darwins. These guys have a pretty solid verified lineage back to a wild caught pair. Looking forward to how they develop. Love the idea of keeping that unadulterated lineage going for the hobby!

 

[laughing tang]

It's been awhile, but I hope you'll check the feed @ReeferMadness09. An amazing thread. I hope you are well, and that you might update us on breeding adventures soon.

So last night I noticed, once again, that our pair Mrs. Clownfish and Mr. Whitey had a batch that was hatching. My beau told me for years it was impossible to get the fry out of the tank and low and behold I found your thread here. So, if we get a next batch, I want to be ready. I have read all you've posted, but my guess is there is more knowledge to be had and I'd be much obliged. No need to rehash what is already here. I ordered the larvae catcher and was interested in your saying you had issues with them being in there for too long - any feedback on that appreciated.

The reason we want to save some offspring is because Mrs. Clownfish is actually very special to us - she predates me, and thus is my beau's original "wife" ha. We laugh, but she is from 2005!! Not a typo. How it is possible we do not know. So she is a standard Percula. Mr. Whitey looks to me to be a Platinum, Wyoming, I am not too well versed and he hides a lot. Maybe someone has an idea. I was wondering if anyone knows what their offspring might end up looking like. For us, we don't really care, we just want to have a few of their babies as we know she cannot possibly last much longer. But I just have no idea since he's designer and she is not. Any input/advice and so on appreciated.

Short video of them today. Pardon the crud flying around, just did some maintenance. Should have waited a bit... Thanks!


.

 

[ReeferMadness09]

I'm glad you enjoyed my thread and found it helpful. Congratulations for having a clownfish who's almost 20 years old and still spawning at that! While not unheard of, it's definitely not something everyone can claim.

To answer your question- the larval snagger works great. What I experienced is that the longer the fry were in the snagger the lower my survival rate once I transfered them to another tank. The snagger keeps them moving in a circular motion once captured and I think that can exhaust the fry if left like that too long. I would try to keep it less than an hour if possible but your results may vary.

Your clownfish look great and if I was to hazard a guess I'd say the male was a Wyoming white but I'm not 100%. Perhaps another member could chime in. There may be other sources online to determine genetic outcomes but I think you would end up with a mix of regular ocellaris, possibly some irregular strip pattern nemos, and Wyoming whites. Coincidentally, I'm currently breeding Wyoming whites. With both parents being Wyoming whites, the clutches yield 100% wyoming white offspring.

There's a bit of a learning curve but with a little perseverance and determination you can 100% raise some babies from Mrs. Clownfish. For me it's an interesting part of the hobby that never gets old.

 

[laughing tang]

@ReeferMadness09 Thank you so much for your response! OMG that is so cool you are breeding Wyoming Whites. What a wonderful bunch you have there, and I'm glad to see you are still at it. My heart sunk when I read you lost your breeding pair back then. It's so awful when that happens, and it happens too often unfortunately.

Thanks so much on the feedback on the larval catcher. Is it possible to say take it out after 45 minutes, release the fry in the grown tank and put the catcher back in the main tank and go back and forth? It will be 2 weeks at least since we get it so I'm not sure how it works precisely without having my hands on it.

In the mean time I ordered all the supplies from reef nutrition for the rotifer, brine shrimp, and researching the chroma food also. I am sure that once hatching time comes I might have more questions. I have no idea how long ours go between clutches - luckily they are laying the eggs right below the anemone in the video so a very visible spot. The eggs are the dark percula ones though so easy to miss, Wednesday's clutch was ready to hatch and I only noticed them because of the silvery eyes. I'll have to be more watchful and put my glasses on!

I managed to get a better pic of Mr. Whitey if that helps. I was leaning to Wyoming White also but the whole thing about the eyes was confusing to me. So yeah, maybe with this pic someone will know. We got him during covid at an LFS in St George Utah, really nice lady that runs it. I'm not even sure I asked what he was, I just thought he was so darn cute, and Mrs. Clownfish had long since survived her last husband (and 6 moves!).

If I may, you mentioned you used an old fluorescent light. I know the fry are light sensitive and my husband asked about the PAR of the light if you happen to know and how far above the tank it should be. We are going with a 10 gallon filling it half way, does that work (I read that advice elsewhere and it seemed a good idea but maybe that just means you have to put in more rotifer, I know you used a 2.5G).

Thanks for your encouragement. It really would mean the world to us to have a Mrs. Clownfish baby. She is good stock, and will be greatly missed when we lose her. So now is the time!

 

[officialreefbros]

This is awesome!! I hope mine may eggs one day to try this

 

[ReeferMadness09]

Sounds like you're on the right track. With the snagger, removing it to empty and adding it back in the tank is what I've done. You'll need to have a healthy culture of rotifers going. Usually if you buy a million or so to start, you can grow a larger culture in a 5g bucket in roughly a week. You can feed the rotifers live phyto but I've found it's much easier to use rgcomplete. It's essentially very condensed and refrigerated phyto so a little goes a long way. With all the other work you'll have going on, this will make your life easier. Similarly, you can use live brine shrimp but you may want to omit that and use the various size tdo chroma boost. You can just keep it in the fridge and use immediately instead of having to prep and hatch brine shrimp every 24 hrs. Again, one less thing to worry about.

Lol, your question about the florescent light made me realize how long it's been since starting this thread! 10 years this may- time flies. I like to keep things as simple as possible so for lights i use something like this currently.

The specs on the light say it's about 5 watts. I have it mounted about 2 ft above the tank and even then I have it angled away from the tank and not pointed directly down. In the beginning you need very little light. But after a week or so you'll be increasing it so then I just start angling the light back towards the tank again.

10 gallon tanks are what I use now too. I would not recommend using 2.5g. you'll be fighting ammonia and nitrate so the more water volume you have the better. Some people use even bigger tanks as well. If you have a nice size rotifer culture going you should have plenty of rotifers for the tank to feed. You'll essentially be co culturing rotifers with the clownfish fry so they will also be reproducing in the grow out tank.

I have a clutch of Bali clownfish eggs I'm looking to hatch around Tuesday. I'm thinking maybe I should update the process and this thread or keep this more like a q&a and start a new thread.

 

[laughing tang]

Sounds like you're on the right track. With the snagger, removing it to empty and adding it back in the tank is what I've done. You'll need to have a healthy culture of rotifers going. Usually if you buy a million or so to start, you can grow a larger culture in a 5g bucket in roughly a week. You can feed the rotifers live phyto but I've found it's much easier to use rgcomplete. It's essentially very condensed and refrigerated phyto so a little goes a long way. With all the other work you'll have going on, this will make your life easier. Similarly, you can use live brine shrimp but you may want to omit that and use the various size tdo chroma boost. You can just keep it in the fridge and use immediately instead of having to prep and hatch brine shrimp every 24 hrs. Again, one less thing to worry about.

Lol, your question about the florescent light made me realize how long it's been since starting this thread! 10 years this may- time flies. I like to keep things as simple as possible so for lights i use something like this currently.

The specs on the light say it's about 5 watts. I have it mounted about 2 ft above the tank and even then I have it angled away from the tank and not pointed directly down. In the beginning you need very little light. But after a week or so you'll be increasing it so then I just start angling the light back towards the tank again.

10 gallon tanks are what I use now too. I would not recommend using 2.5g. you'll be fighting ammonia and nitrate so the more water volume you have the better. Some people use even bigger tanks as well. If you have a nice size rotifer culture going you should have plenty of rotifers for the tank to feed. You'll essentially be co culturing rotifers with the clownfish fry so they will also be reproducing in the grow out tank.

I have a clutch of Bali clownfish eggs I'm looking to hatch around Tuesday. I'm thinking maybe I should update the process and this thread or keep this more like a q&a and start a new thread.

Thank you so much for all that updated information. OK I will go with a 10 gallon. Just bought a 6 gallon ha but that is why there are returns. Thanks also for the desk light. Ha yes, who uses fluorescent anymore. Your advice is much appreciated. I have the rotifer culture, bucket and so on coming from reef nutrition but I neglected to the the algae green which I suspect I also need. An updated experience would be wonderful if you are so inclined!!

FYI I just saw a bunch of Sea & Reef clowns at the LFS, and I do think Mr. Whitey is a Wyoming. Maybe I should do an ID posting elsewhere in the forum.

I will keep on researching while we are "eggless" ... better take advantage of the time. Thanks again, and please do let us know about your Bali hatch, I would love to follow along.

 

[officialreefbros]

Sounds like you're on the right track. With the snagger, removing it to empty and adding it back in the tank is what I've done. You'll need to have a healthy culture of rotifers going. Usually if you buy a million or so to start, you can grow a larger culture in a 5g bucket in roughly a week. You can feed the rotifers live phyto but I've found it's much easier to use rgcomplete. It's essentially very condensed and refrigerated phyto so a little goes a long way. With all the other work you'll have going on, this will make your life easier. Similarly, you can use live brine shrimp but you may want to omit that and use the various size tdo chroma boost. You can just keep it in the fridge and use immediately instead of having to prep and hatch brine shrimp every 24 hrs. Again, one less thing to worry about.

Lol, your question about the florescent light made me realize how long it's been since starting this thread! 10 years this may- time flies. I like to keep things as simple as possible so for lights i use something like this currently.

The specs on the light say it's about 5 watts. I have it mounted about 2 ft above the tank and even then I have it angled away from the tank and not pointed directly down. In the beginning you need very little light. But after a week or so you'll be increasing it so then I just start angling the light back towards the tank again.

10 gallon tanks are what I use now too. I would not recommend using 2.5g. you'll be fighting ammonia and nitrate so the more water volume you have the better. Some people use even bigger tanks as well. If you have a nice size rotifer culture going you should have plenty of rotifers for the tank to feed. You'll essentially be co culturing rotifers with the clownfish fry so they will also be reproducing in the grow out tank.

I have a clutch of Bali clownfish eggs I'm looking to hatch around Tuesday. I'm thinking maybe I should update the process and this thread or keep this more like a q&a and start a new thread.

Yeah! I'd love you see more on your setup and what all you got. Once my clowns grow up more I want to give it a go!

 

[laughing tang]

Fyi, after posting on some clown breeder groups the consensus is that Mrs. Clownfish is Ocellaris and Mr. Whitey is Platinum. Taking bids on what that hybrid might bring. Let us know how the Bali hatch goes tomorrow.!

 

[ReeferMadness09]

Well the hatch wasn't as great as I hoped for. The clowns are laying on a return nozzel. Although i can remove it and hatch the eggs in another tank, the nozzle is an awkward shape and a challenge to keep all the eggs moving with an air stone. This time around I only had about 50-70 eggs hatch with a bunch left that didn't hatch.

I'll try something different for the next hatch. This pair produces a variety so I should still get some nice patterns. Id post a picture but they're so small right now there's not much to see.

 

[laughing tang]

Oh no!! I was hoping you'd have a good hatch and keeping my fingers crossed for you. Can't wait to see what you have! We are going to vossen it since ours our in the DT. No eggs for us yet. I don't think they spawn very often given her age maybe. Of course the beau decide to rearrange some of that tank despite my pleas ("but it's all the way on the other side of the tank," next thing I know he's changing the flow). But we are taking advantage of the time to set up, all the supplies are dribbling in .. the rotifers are culturing (jeez is it really 11ml a day of RG complete, christ almighty that gets pricey!). Today is the first time we are taking 25% of the culture (day 3) and banking it in the fridge just in case. We are going to set up the fry tank and run a trial as if we have fry so we can practice siphoning, ammonia control and testing and all that. Practice makes perfect I think. And it's good to test all the supplies, the first Cobalt Neotherm heater was DOA. Show us some pictures when the little ones are visible!! FYI Which Bali do you have? I see quite a few variants, very cool.

I actually saw an old youtube with Jake who passed away about a "Mozart" variety (Aquadancing), and I totally fell in love with it only to find it appears they went out of business. I would have bought a pair right then and there, what a cool variety.

 

[ReeferMadness09]

It's ok, 50+ is still enough for the time and effort. They hatched on Monday night and laid more eggs Wednesday so I'll be right back at it again in a week. How often do you feed your pair? Age could be a part of it but so is feeding. The more feedings each day the better. I agree, one of the most expensive parts is the rgcomplete. I use about 8-10ml a day per culture. It's a convenience worth the cost imo. Alternatively, growing my own phyto is just not a chore I'd like to add to the list of things to do.

Good thing you're testing out the equipment! Never hurts to have some backup gear too. It always fails at the worst possible time. I've never heard of aqua dancing Mozart, I'll have to check that out.

Here's a picture of the parents. They're Bali Aquarich P2s that are several years old.

 

[laughing tang]

They are absolutely gorgeous!! I may just have to reserve some babies! I was just cruising all the designer clowns, now having a taste for it. It would be very hard to pick.

Here's a link to the Mozart article. The K4 made me drool. https://reefbuilders.com/2016/06/21/new-mozart-and-beethoven-clownfish-from-aquadancing/

Their FB page is still up but they seem to have gone dark after 2018. I did email the address that was on there, but as expected no response. It's too bad because I think they are beautiful.

Good to know on the RG complete. I only got a 6 oz bottle with the kit; I should have realized and ordered more given that shipping is 37 bucks because it's refrigerated. The company is literally 30 min from my house which makes me want to drive down there and knock on the door ha. I hear you on the phyto. I researched it and soon said, yeah no.

Redundancy is vital. Having been in reefing for 20 years have left us with a huge amount of surplus, and for anything new we ordered for this I ordered 2 (esp heaters). It's just not worth the stress.

We have been feeding the pair more. My vague recollection is that they don't spawn frequently but in the past they were invisible in the back of the tank for the longest time. It's only since recently with the enormous surplus of anemones we currently have that they came into view. He's pretty young though, when we got him during covid, probably 2020, he was just tiny. She really did rob the cradle with our assistance, Mrs. Clowfish the cougar.

 

[laughing tang]

And then this happened today!! I guess our practice time will be short. We had ordered a Vossen from the Vossen website but that will take too long. We've ordered one from BRS since they appear to have them in stock. If all fails I guess we'll have to scoop them out. Question - when you harvest rotifers and put them in the fridge, do you put them in clean saltwater with some RG Grow or just the harvesting water?

 

[ReeferMadness09]

Wow, that's a big clutch. And away you go! I haven't really stored rotifers in the fridge very much. I think when I've done it I've used fresh saltwater. I'm sure either way would work since rotifers are pretty forgiving but if you're looking for the longest "shelf life" fresh might be the way to go. All this talk about equipment and then I find the heater in the tank of my Bali hatch dead and the water ice cold very late last night. Oddly the fry seem ok so maybe I caught it just in time, we'll see.

Luckily I had one to swap out but for the amount of tanks I have I should have more on hand so I'll be putting an order in today. If there's one part that's going to fail, it going to be a heater...the silent killer.

 

[laughing tang]

Oh no!! That sucks about the heaters, I hope the eggs are OK! It's good you detected it early. We have a ton of heaters but they are all 100w. The second cobalt neotherm (this time 50W, the other was 25w) I amazon'd in was DOA as well. The buttons on those things fail to set the temperature. Maddening. The Hygger 50w I bought did work and I like the form factor much better. But every review for these heaters have bad review saying the heater fail hot, explode, etc. We are opting to connect a hydros system that is set up for the QT, since that one is dry for the moment. I just want to make sure we get notified if the temps get out of range. I've been hesitant to order a glass heater for fear I might "fry the fry". We usually use eheims and have had good luck with them and they do have a 50w but it's glass.

Thanks for the input about fridge storage. We'll store this week, just to have back up in case the culture fails since we only have one culture. Better safe than sorry.

If I may partake of more of your knowledge ..
* for a 5 gallon, how much RG complete to add daily (and I'd spread it out multiple times a day)
* for a 5 gallon, the volume of rotifer culture to harvest (let's say we are feeding 11 ml and have 1 mil rotifers/gallon) - I have trouble relating 15 rotifers/ml
* does anyone use a drip system to slowly dose fresh saltwater, RG complete and rotifers?
* Hanna ammonia tester - how to test the fry tank water given the rotifers/RG complete ... filter the water w/sieve and coffee filter first? We have the hanging doodads for the tank also but wanted more precision.

Keep me posted on the eggs. Good to hear you think the size of our clutch is good. It is much, much bigger than the one that hatched Feb 29 (probably 5x). I'm wondering if they ate a bunch of them that time.

 

[ReeferMadness09]

I've been using 50 watt heaters and think I'm going to move to 100 watt. I guess it all depends on the location of the tank. I hear eheim heaters are pretty reliable but I don't mess with glass and only go titanium. With how flaky heaters are it's one less worry about it breaking in the aquarium.

For the rotifers I have more than one culture going. They're pretty durable and I've kept cultures running for a year + easy but at some point there will be a crash. With 2 cultures you have plenty of rots no matter what since you're syphoning them out for cleaning anyway but the downside is using more rgcomplete.

I feed 4-5ml of rgcomplete in a 5g bucket twice a day. Using one of those rotifer sieves, I probably sieve about a half gallon of water at a shot. With a healthy rot culture running that's plenty to add to a newly started half full 10g fry tank. I know people say a density of 15 rot per ml but I'm just not that overly technical to measure. As long as the fry aren't getting lost in a sea of rots you're probably good to go. I'd rather have more than not enough. If you are really extra heavy on the rots they'll clear the green water quicker and you'll need to add more phyto to keep the water tinted early on. Otherwise, if there's too much light and phyto is cleared you drive them to the bottom of the tank and will most likely suffer some loss.

If you can't be there to tint the water often enough just be sure to cut back on the lighting initially.

The fry just demand a lot of constant manual attention. I don't really test for ammonia. It'll be there no matter what you do and since you'll be using some sort of ammonia detoxifier anyway you'll just end up with false readings. Your goal will be to have the best water quality possible by ammonia detoxifier, syphoning detritus, and ball park 50% water change daily.

 

[laughing tang]

Thank you so much, that is great detail. Since we just started the rotifer culture 5 days ago we've been feeding it very heavy with about 11ml a day (feeding 3 times a day), just to make sure we have enough, and harvesting 1 gallon every day. By hatch night that should give us 7 gallon with high density in the fridge. We will likely set up a second culture at some point as you suggested, it depends how successful we are with this clutch I guess.

On the rotifer density in the fry tank, thank you, that is helpful. I think like you we will eyeball for the rotifer to larva distance of 1 to 1.5 larva body length. We've been peering at them with a magnifying glass - one ml harvest water is showing a lot more than 15 so all is well with the culture.

We already been playing with the setup of the tank (I got a grey acrylic top to help with filtering light) and the lightbulb can be dimmed also. Beau had a good time with a light app on this phone turning various lights in the house on and off to see the difference. It will be a delicate balance of enough light to see the rotifers but not so much they are not swimming freely.

Wow, 50% water change. Daily from day 1? I had heard that ammonia shouldn't be a problem until day 3, to top of with 1/2 gallon day 1 and 2 and then from day 3 to do 20% water changes daily or every other day as necessary. I'd be interested in more information about this because what I'm going off is clearly not your experience, and I really want to get it right. Especially given that ammonia testing is not an option, that feels like going blind ha.

I suspect I likely will sleep only at 4 hr stretches just to check up on the brood intermittently the first days...

Eggs are looking good today I think, he's taking good care of them while Mrs. Clownfish mostly hangs in her "hammock" as I like to call her anemone, with an occasional check on the eggs.

 

[ReeferMadness09]

I guess there's differing opinions on water changes. In the beginning you could just add new saltwater and slowly increase the volume. I do like you said but I'll also do some cleaning to get the dead fry out to stay ahead of the curve. You have to be very gentle if you do this because they're super fragile at that point obviously. 20% at day three should be ok. I think the more fry you have survive the more waste is created from the fry and the rots as well as tdo if you're using that to get them transitioned off rots. This is what I do so I try to do at least 30% if not more. That could be overkill but ive experienced deformities especially flaird gills in my fish. I don't know that it's been proven but I've read people suggest that elevated nitrate is a cause. It makes sense to me so I'm trying to go heavy on water changes to keep nitrate very low and see if it has an overall impact. I would definitely try to do water changes every day. You'd be amazed how much crude accrues in a single day. I think you'll notice the fry are significantly more tolerant after the first 3 days or so