new Maroon Clownfish starving itself and spitting out all of its food for 8 or 9 days

[blazin'reefer]

Sounds like either gill flukes or velvet. Pics or video would really help to see breathing rates and behavior to best assess what is happening
If flukes you will see increased breathing, darting, scratching, yawning and loss of appetite as examples

Can you post videos of the affected fish? I'm trying to get a sense of how they look.

the lights are about to turn on but will be very blue for the first hour or 2 so i tried to grab a couple pictures now but i was not able to find the clown goby right now unfortunately. as i was taking a picture i actually did see the yellow damsel kind of look like it was yawning maybe. The tang flashed like 5 or 10 times when i was taking the pictures and seems like it is like every 5 minutes. The picture quality is not great i tried to clean my glass but didnt do the best job and also the fish were continually moving but here is the tang and damsel for now, i will also post a picture when lights are whiter when i find the goby and try to possibly get better pictures of all and then maybe a video if i figure out how to do it properly andif you both believe it is needed. The first photo of the tang is him flashing and the last is him swimming near the hang on fuge output.

 

[vetteguy53081]

the lights are about to turn on but will be very blue for the first hour or 2 so i tried to grab a couple pictures now but i was not able to find the clown goby right now unfortunately. as i was taking a picture i actually did see the yellow damsel kind of look like it was yawning maybe. The tang flashed like 5 or 10 times when i was taking the pictures and seems like it is like every 5 minutes. The picture quality is not great i tried to clean my glass but didnt do the best job and also the fish were continually moving but here is the tang and damsel for now, i will also post a picture when lights are whiter when i find the goby and try to possibly get better pictures of all and then maybe a video if i figure out how to do it properly andif you both believe it is needed.

As suspected, fluke issue
Treat with prazi Pro applying dosage and allowing it to run 8 days and do a water change and one more application lasting 8 days and increase oxygen during treatment
Pics are fuzzy to see the skin of each

 

[blazin'reefer]

As suspected, fluke issue
Treat with prazi Pro applying dosage and allowing it to run 8 days and do a water change and one more application lasting 8 days and increase oxygen during treatment
Pics are fuzzy to see the skin of each

ok thanks, i do have a couple questions about that though if thats ok. So even though i just removed the 2nd 80% prazi dose last night and they didnt work at all you are relatively confident that if i dose 2 more again at 100% strength it will help this time even though those 3 fish still have barely any or no appetite? i also left the meds in for 2.5 days each time and not just 24 hours. i do have a fair amount of bristle worms under the rocks which is another reason i only did 80% but they seemed relatively unaffected. I have fritz prazi powder so i also had issues mixing it i tried mixing it with like 1ml of vodka and then water and then dosing but i still saw a ton of tiny bits of undissolved prazi flying around probably the majority. Is there a better way to dissolve? The damsel has no spots i can see at all just spitting food out like the dead clownfish and zero flashing what ive seen. I spent about an hour looking in every little hole in the rocks for the green clown goby too where ever i have seen him before but he is still completely mia. This is the first time i havent been able to find him for a long time. Possibly because i added the uv last night and changed the flow by his main spot. His issues looks nothing like the tang though and is legit some sort of white/clear large bumps all over his face and body if he is still alive. If i see him at any point i will try to get a pic. Sorry for the long posts i am just trying to make sure i do what i can at this point.

 

[vetteguy53081]

ok thanks, i do have a couple questions about that though if thats ok. So even though i just removed the 2nd 80% prazi dose last night and they didnt work at all you are relatively confident that if i dose 2 more again at 100% strength it will help this time even though those 3 fish still have barely any or no appetite? i also left the meds in for 2.5 days each time and not just 24 hours. i do have a fair amount of bristle worms under the rocks which is another reason i only did 80% but they seemed relatively unaffected. I have fritz prazi powder so i also had issues mixing it i tried mixing it with like 1ml of vodka and then water and then dosing but i still saw a ton of tiny bits of undissolved prazi flying around probably the majority. Is there a better way to dissolve? The damsel has no spots i can see at all just spitting food out like the dead clownfish and zero flashing what ive seen. I spent about an hour looking in every little hole in the rocks for the green clown goby too where ever i have seen him before but he is still completely mia. This is the first time i havent been able to find him for a long time. Possibly because i added the uv last night and changed the flow by his main spot. His issues looks nothing like the tang though and is legit some sort of white/clear large bumps all over his face and body if he is still alive. If i see him at any point i will try to get a pic. Sorry for the long posts i am just trying to make sure i do what i can at this point.

Go with Prazi Pro opposed to powder and If I hear you right, you are treating for 3 days?
To Confirm, treat with preferably PraziPro liquid and apply dosage and allow it to remain in tank for 8 full days, Do a water change and add another dosage for 8 full day, NOT daily

 

[blazin'reefer]

Go with Prazi Pro opposed to powder and If I hear you right, you are treating for 3 days?
To Confirm, treat with preferably PraziPro liquid and apply dosage and allow it to remain in tank for 8 full days, Do a water change and add another dosage for 8 full day, NOT daily

i do live in canada so prazi pro and also even this prazi cleanse i already have are very difficult to get, it took several weeks for me to get it delivered from the us amazon in the first place so i dont believe getting prazipro in time is likely possible just like copper.. if you have an idea of dissolving it better i will have to try that as likely my only option unless you think the fish could still last that long for me ordering new stuff..? Would vinegar maybe work since it has less carbon and i can use more? I dosed it first time at 80% then waited 2-3 days and replaced activated carbon then 3 or 4 days after that (1 week) did a 20% water change and then repeated for another time.

 

[blazin'reefer]

@Jay Hemdal whenever you have a extra minute aswell if you dont mind did you also see the pictures and do you also believe my problem is flukes too or did you still need better pics or a video for diagnosis? if you aggree it is aswell do you maybe have any tips for safely mixing the prazicleanse powder into an even mixed liquid to put into the tank other than 1 ml of vodka? Thanks.

 

[vetteguy53081]

i do live in canada so prazi pro and also even this prazi cleanse i already have are very difficult to get, it took several weeks for me to get it delivered from the us amazon in the first place so i dont believe getting prazipro in time is likely possible just like copper.. if you have an idea of dissolving it better i will have to try that as likely my only option unless you think the fish could still last that long for me ordering new stuff..? Would vinegar maybe work since it has less carbon and i can use more? I dosed it first time at 80% then waited 2-3 days and replaced activated carbon then 3 or 4 days after that (1 week) did a 20% water change and then repeated for another time.

Powdered does not easily dissolve but I have heard of some using ethyl alcohol to help it dissolve. No vinegar

 

[vetteguy53081]

@Jay Hemdal whenever you have a extra minute aswell if you dont mind did you also see the pictures and do you also believe my problem is flukes too or did you still need better pics or a video for diagnosis? if you aggree it is aswell do you maybe have any tips for safely mixing the prazicleanse powder into an even mixed liquid to put into the tank other than 1 ml of vodka? Thanks.

Video best as it show behavior and breathing rates. Please use white lighting intensity

 

[blazin'reefer]

Powdered does not easily dissolve but I have heard of some using ethyl alcohol to help it dissolve. No vinegar

Video best as it show behavior and breathing rates. Please use white lighting intensity

ok i will maybe see if i can find pure ethanol but if not i guess i will have to just try using a bit more vodka this time maybe, just worried as i already did have a minor bacteria bloom the first 2. I spent like 2 or 3 hours trying to figure out how to post a video on youtube and after a bunch of trial and error i finally got 1 on it. The main lights were off again by then though so i had to just use the brightest room light i could. you cant really see the skin in this video but it does show breathing. They are both hiding since i am near the tank though. If needed i will do another tomorrow when white lights are back on. Still no clue where the clown goby went and really wish i would have taken a picture of him when i first made this post. He is usually under the monti i focus on for a second.

 

[vetteguy53081]

ok i will maybe see if i can find pure ethanol but if not i guess i will have to just try using a bit more vodka this time maybe, just worried as i already did have a minor bacteria bloom the first 2. I spent like 2 or 3 hours trying to figure out how to post a video on youtube and after a bunch of trial and error i finally got 1 on it. The main lights were off again by then though so i had to just use the brightest room light i could. you cant really see the skin in this video but it does show breathing. They are both hiding since i am near the tank though. If needed i will do another tomorrow when white lights are back on. Still no clue where the clown goby went and really wish i would have taken a picture of him when i first made this post. He is usually under the monti i focus on for a second.

Which vodka will do. Be careful with incorrect mixture and dosings which will create problems rather than solutions

 

[blazin'reefer]

Which vodka will do. Be careful with incorrect mixture and dosings which will create problems rather than solutions

ok thanks again, so just for clarification did the video work and you still believe prazi is the way to go?

The packets are made for 20 gallons each and i believe i have approx 49 gallons total tank volume so i should use 2.5 packs for each dose instead of 2 packs correct? i will also try mixing them with the vodka for a little bit longer maybe instead of just mixing into water. Seems weird they would make a product for use in aquarium water that has such issues disolving.

Also last thing the tang is swimming dirrectly into the actual powerhead tonight instead of just near it too.

 

[vetteguy53081]

ok thanks again, so just for clarification did the video work and you still believe prazi is the way to go?

The packets are made for 20 gallons each and i believe i have approx 49 gallons total tank volume so i should use 2.5 packs for each dose instead of 2 packs correct? i will also try mixing them with the vodka for a little bit longer maybe instead of just mixing into water. Seems weird they would make a product for use in aquarium water that has such issues disolving.

Also last thing the tang is swimming dirrectly into the actual powerhead tonight instead of just near it too.

Dissolvability is an issue with dense water and affects some salt mixes also
I’m not keen on vodka but contains alcohol

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal whenever you have a extra minute aswell if you dont mind did you also see the pictures and do you also believe my problem is flukes too or did you still need better pics or a video for diagnosis? if you aggree it is aswell do you maybe have any tips for safely mixing the prazicleanse powder into an even mixed liquid to put into the tank other than 1 ml of vodka? Thanks.

Sorry, flukes can’t be diagnosed through still pictures, it is tough even with video, but at least the video would show their respiration rate.
Using ethanol to dissolve praziquantel but it is very risky. Bacteria feed on the ethanol and that strips oxygen from the water and that can kill fish. If you do that, use the absolute least amount and aerate the tank really well with a strong air stone.
I prefer pushing prazi as a slurry through a fine mesh baby brine net or nylon pantyhose. Wearing gloves and a mask of course.

 

[blazin'reefer]

Dissolvability is an issue with dense water and affects some salt mixes also
I’m not keen on vodka but contains alcohol

i believe i used ro but i may have just not mixed it well enough before pouring into the tank too

Sorry, flukes can’t be diagnosed through still pictures, it is tough even with video, but at least the video would show their respiration rate.
Using ethanol to dissolve praziquantel but it is very risky. Bacteria feed on the ethanol and that strips oxygen from the water and that can kill fish. If you do that, use the absolute least amount and aerate the tank really well with a strong air stone.
I prefer pushing prazi as a slurry through a fine mesh baby brine net or nylon pantyhose. Wearing gloves and a mask of course.

ok thanks, and no problem i appreciate you and vette are able to reply to all the the threads and questions that you both do. i am thinking i will still try another full stregnth treatment since they have alot of the symptoms and i now remember that after the first treatment (which was the strongest since i might have spilt a bit on the second honestly and that was only using 80% strength for both too) i do remember they looked a bit better for about 1 day during it. If after another full stregnth dose or 2 they dont appear any better i may move to uv and hydrogen peroxide dosing maybe since i do think it has to be some sort of parasite probably right? did you see the pics with the black dots on the tang?

I did use vodka the first one but i used a very small amount because i know it contains alot of carbon. i may look into that slurry straining idea, i never heard of that before. i also did use a strong air pump and airstone aswell as leaving the skimmer on lowering the level a ton and also a wavemaker pump at the surface for oxygen.

There is also a chance my mom may have accidentally taken a tiny sip of prazi water last week.. i dont think it was prazi but there was a waterbottle with white powder and thats the only thing any of us could think of. Its not toxic is it?

I did post a video link from youtube and linked it on the end of my post #49 on this thread and it shows its on here for me, does it not show for you?

 

[blazin'reefer]

i also fed today and everyone ate something including the mia clown goby so i think the prazi was affecting their appetite even though it was days ago. i think if i do prazi it again i should do it today or tomorrow after another big feeding since all have eaten today. I was able to get a few pics of the bumps all over him aswell but with wet hands it wasnt easy to get good pics. Here is the pics of the clown goby you can kinda see the size of "growths" i will also include the best pic of the tang where you can see his skin that i already posted too just for easier viewing.

also @Jay Hemdal i know people cant diagnose from still pics but does it look similar to flukes to you aswell? the first picture of the clown goby you can sort of see the size of them on him. please let me know if you can see the youtube video on post #49 aswell.

 

[vetteguy53081]

i also fed today and everyone ate something including the mia clown goby so i think the prazi was affecting their appetite even though it was days ago. i think if i do prazi it again i should do it today or tomorrow after another big feeding since all have eaten today. I was able to get a few pics of the bumps all over him aswell but with wet hands it wasnt easy to get good pics. Here is the pics of the clown goby you can kinda see the size of "growths" i will also include the best pic of the tang where you can see his skin that i already posted too just for easier viewing.

also @Jay Hemdal i know people cant diagnose from still pics but does it look similar to flukes to you aswell? the first picture of the clown goby you can sort of see the size of them on him. please let me know if you can see the youtube video on post #49 aswell.

Prazi Does reduce both oxygen and appetite why I suggested to increase aeration
These growths are likely not flukes but can be bacterial lesions Or even parasitical

 

[blazin'reefer]

Prazi Does reduce both oxygen and appetite why I suggested to increase aeration
These growths are likely not flukes but can be bacterial lesions Or even parasitical

i did increase oxygen over the last few weeks. i just thought prazi only affected appetite for the first day or 2 but im happy that they all ate something that hopefully gives me a bit more time.

The marks on the tang and symptoms showed up at almost the same time as the growths on the goby maybe a couple days apart right after adding that now dead clownfish so i wonder if they are related or if they are 2 different issues. I have not done the full strength prazi doses yet was going to in the next day or 2 after they have eatten but you still suggest this? or do you have any experience with hydrogen peroxide dosing? i read on @Humblefish forum it can possibly kill velvet, ich, i think i read flukes but i cant remember forsure and i know it kills certain types of bacteria and fungus aswell. Could this possibly be a better shotgun aproach to tackle both issues aswell as good waterchanges or prazi first then hydrogen peroxide? or what is the best way to try and save them all or most. I do have metro and a bunch of other fish antibiotics too.

 

[blazin'reefer]

I could find a hospital tank and order copper or some other med or maybe a cheap microscope if that is needed aslong as they arent crazy expensive just dont know what would have the best odds of all fish surviving and what exactly is my best course of action. Even if they didnt get here in time i would have them for the future. Right now im still leaning towards trying to feed tomorrow and then another full strength prazi dose and evaluate if they look any better or worse after but dont know forsure.

 

[blazin'reefer]

sorry for the really long posts and all the questions too, i definitely dont want to annoy anyone i just want to know exactly what i should do so i can say i did all i can to try and save them even if they do still die. Also I just read jays post about posting for fish disease problems so thought i would try #fishmedic aswell incase any others could have thoughts on this aswell. I will try including the youtube link again under here if it doesnt work then let me know i uploaded it youtube and selected private and viewable with link so maybe need to change it to public? Here is the link again

 

[Jay Hemdal]

sorry for the really long posts and all the questions too, i definitely dont want to annoy anyone i just want to know exactly what i should do so i can say i did all i can to try and save them even if they do still die. Also I just read jays post about posting for fish disease problems so thought i would try #fishmedic aswell incase any others could have thoughts on this aswell. I will try including the youtube link again under here if it doesnt work then let me know i uploaded it youtube and selected private and viewable with link so maybe need to change it to public? Here is the link again

From the video - the "rag tag" look of the fish and the rapid breathing and pelvic fin flicking of the tang all point to flukes. It could be something else I imagine, but flukes would be the typical cause.

I saw the note about your mom possibly ingesting some prazi. I can't speak to that, I have a rule to never give out human medical advice. I always wear gloves and a mask when handling powdered prazi.