Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

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brandon429

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Remember too it’ll take two months on avg for changes to show, slow

and along the way you need to be fighting any remassing of invasion, if strings of red re appear on the sandbed it’ll be a tiny bit you can siphon up and not allow to grow, I don’t plan that a partial cleaning run though we’re being thorough would be cured in one pass, it’s stasis changes that matter most. Make sure you production water is ro, di with good resins working well at zero total dissolved solids

the fluconazole / reef flux / you would run at half a dose to your gallonage only if green tufted growths resume on the rock, and it’s likely to happen since this will be first manual cleaning

save the fluc only run it if growback begins on the rocks after your entire tank is cleaned manually though we are doing it without disassembly

the rocks still need manual surgical cleaning. If one is an arch, then plan to rescape that into a bommie or pile vs an arch, a glued arch is inaccessible and that’s where algae wants to be, out of your willing access location. Most of your scape can be lifted out one section at a time, set on the counter.

dribble saltwater across corals occasionally as you work on the rocks in the air, on the counter. You’d use a kitchen knife to detail scrape rasp and sharply score off algae so you cut the holdfasts out of the rocks, it’ll take a few hours and nothing works like reef dentistry, that’s what youre doing to make those rocks algae free, one at a time. When a given scraped area is algae free, via knife and time and saltwater rinses to wash the debrided algae down the sink, you take the clean section of rocks and put common peroxide on the cleaned spots, after rasping, which helps burn invisible holdfast cells you missed during rasping and rinse. This does not remove the cycle on your rocks even if they are on the counter for an hour, be spraying corals with saltwater occasionally they can just sit on the rock in the air, the corals you have arent super sensitive to air emersion when kept wet.


detail every rock this way, you could easily do one section as practice tonite. This is the crucial step nobody did in the six hundred page fluc thread, they chose to leave the algae, avoid the work, and rot the cells in the tank. Physically fixing the algae with metal knives isn’t brushing algae, brushes are bad they smash bits of algae into the rock

dentistry uses a knife and rasps roughly, working around corals with precision force

it leaves no cells to degrade in your tank, your outcome will be different than the fluc thread even though we used fluc as a parachute to save you having to do all the rocks again.

this thread is strictly for disassembly full take down rip cleans because we want only that certain outcome shown in the picture logs, a homogenous work theme in place to test out for years the roughest method of handling reef tanks. There are no safety issues with full disassembly cleaning because it leaves no waste; doing in-tank work has a small chance of bringing latent fish disease into action, a low but possible chance, and there’s a tiny chance that upwelled detritus can kill or stress the tank it’s just not very likely in your setup due to variables shown in the pic. I was willing to take this one chance to do a non rip clean in the rip clean thread considering the degree of physical work and access those rocks will require / that part is still very on par for our thread. We are the only thread that does external rock work, on the counter, never using brushes and using an ordered set of actions to make a tank nearly perfectly free of invasion without wait.

I truly think these combos can bring that big tank back into line.

UV simply has the chance to extend out that period where you aren’t doing a lot of follow up hand guiding.
 

mikedrumm22

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I am finally ready to make a post on this thread. I feel safe enough lol. I completed a rip upgrade from my Nuvo 20 to a 25 the night of Sunday, Feb 26. Here we are on February 28th. Alk consumption is great, even with lights at 60ish percent. Even had to dose.

I reached out to @brandon429 prior for advice and followed this thread closely. I rinsed the living s**t out of my sand for hours until my back was sore. Corals and live rock were out of water for around 20 mins. My only tweaks were that I added a bacterial booster I ordered from TSA.

So far, the only thing I don’t like is a nearly invisible layer of dinos on the gravel. The corals are all healthy (torches not quite fully extended but I did some reshuffling on their placement. My acros have shown great day and nighttime PE, and the few acros that took scratches from the move healed up quite well very quickly. For me, if corals are not acting as a media for dinos, they are doing well. I think I will have a good sigh of relief when I see spots of purple appearing but I feel pretty good so far. Nutrients have been stable. Been feeding a lot though. All in all, the new tank is gorgeous and I finally have the sandbed (and space) I was needing. For anyone looking to buy a NUVO, I would recommend the 25 over the 20. Its only 5 gallons difference but the dimensions are much better for some reason. Gives the fish a lot of room to swim.

I’ll post again soon after a week with an update.
 

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mikedrumm22

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I am finally ready to make a post on this thread. I feel safe enough lol. I completed a rip upgrade from my Nuvo 20 to a 25 the night of Sunday, Feb 26. Here we are on February 28th. Alk consumption is great, even with lights at 60ish percent. Even had to dose.

I reached out to @brandon429 prior for advice and followed this thread closely. I rinsed the living s**t out of my sand for hours until my back was sore. Corals and live rock were out of water for around 20 mins. My only tweaks were that I added a bacterial booster I ordered from TSA.

So far, the only thing I don’t like is a nearly invisible layer of dinos on the gravel. The corals are all healthy (torches not quite fully extended but I did some reshuffling on their placement. My acros have shown great day and nighttime PE, and the few acros that took scratches from the move healed up quite well very quickly. For me, if corals are not acting as a media for dinos, they are doing well. I think I will have a good sigh of relief when I see spots of purple appearing but I feel pretty good so far. Nutrients have been stable. Been feeding a lot though. All in all, the new tank is gorgeous and I finally have the sandbed (and space) I was needing. For anyone looking to buy a NUVO, I would recommend the 25 over the 20. Its only 5 gallons difference but the dimensions are much better for some reason. Gives the fish a lot of room to swim.

I’ll post again soon after a week with an update.

UPDATE: 1 Week later

0 deaths

Corals look great. No coralline on glass or walls yet, anxiously awaiting its appearance. Otherwise, everything looks great. Nitrate is stable around 5.0. Phosphate was getting sucked up for a little, but dosed accordingly and stabilized. Alk consumption has been solid.

Takeaways: It seems like the truth is in the rock. Not the sand or sump. Enough good rock= happy coral. These discoveries pretty much change everything we have ever viewed about reef tanks.

Happy Reefing!
 
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brandon429

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Mike your pictures are so helpful and look great, others can pattern off your work flow for their tank correction thank you for these updates
 

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Im starting down this rabbit hole also. Just tore down a 150g display that was running over a year and im rising the sand for a much smaller 25g.
I only have done about 30 minutes so far and I couldnt believe how dark brown and almost black the sand was during the initial rinsing! Disgusting! I have a bit more rising to go before I get to "Laser clear"
Do I have to do a final rinse in RODI or is tap just fine?
 
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brandon429

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Buried in the pages somewhere is Amy who power washed all her rocks in tap water, to jet off the algae thoroughly. We usually use saltwater on rocks they're the main bacteria source, nothing went wrong. The only reason we rinse final in ro or saltwater would be for the few areas where tap water is bad or contains high copper due to delivery piping, handles all the variables we might see. If you can do one partial final rinse with a gallon of saltwater or ro to at least jet out some tap it would be ideal
 
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Floyd-

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Buried in the pages somewhere is Amy who power washed all her rocks in tap water, to jet off the algae thoroughly. We usual use saltwater on rocks they're the main bacteria source, nothing went wrong. The only reason we rinse final in ro or saltwater would be for the few areas where tap water is bad or contains high copper due to delivery piping, handles all the variables we might see. If you can do one partial final rinse with a gallon of saltwater or ro to at least jet out some tap it would be ideal
No worries. I can do a final rinse in RODI without issue just for good measure. Its going to take a little time to clean this sand out, I cannot believe how much crud was held up in there.
 

mikedrumm22

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No worries. I can do a final rinse in RODI without issue just for good measure. Its going to take a little time to clean this sand out, I cannot believe how much crud was held up in there.
I did a final RODI rinse on my sand for safety and tried to limit any time it sat in the tap. Worked well for me .
 

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No worries. I can do a final rinse in RODI without issue just for good measure. Its going to take a little time to clean this sand out, I cannot believe how much crud was held up in there.
Yeah I was sitting in my garden chair while power washing my sand it took a good 30mins+ but it's really satisfying watching the water slowly turn from dark brown to clear

I should also do a small update what I've done so far-

Turned my lights whites down and have more of a blue spectrum now.

Cleaned my wavemakers in citric acid.

I've taken out a couple pieces of rocks and scraped them clean, also wanting to ask this task takes about an hour for ONE piece of rock is that normal?

I made an executive decision to remove and rinse my sand as just removing the cyano was already removing a lot of my sand bed anyway.

20230303_153819.jpg

I know you said to remove arches but I really like this aquascape my tank is coming along pretty well! :)
(should clean the smudges on the glass before taking a picture :p)
 

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Yeah I was sitting in my garden chair while power washing my sand it took a good 30mins+ but it's really satisfying watching the water slowly turn from dark brown to clear.
Im at over an hour of rinsing and its still coming out light brown! This is going to take some time. Im doing more rinsing tonight hoping it will clear up.
 
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brandon429

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be sure when you feel it’s done, take a sample and drop it in a clear glass of water shining a light through and check for clouding, I bet it will need even another pass/this stuff is full of waste it’s amazing. Here’s my glass test:




New rip clean tank transfer upgrade finished for a friend in the fish forum


No bottle bac no ammonia testing
 
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Floyd-

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Brandon, ive have rinsed this sand for hours and the water still isnt clear. Can I call this well enough and proceed or is this one of those things where if you cut corners you will regret it.
This is a new tank setup. I have no coral or fish and no rock. I was planning on getting the sand and water going then add some live rock this weekend from a local store.
 

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Brandon, ive have rinsed this sand for hours and the water still isnt clear. Can I call this well enough and proceed or is this one of those things where if you cut corners you will regret it.
This is a new tank setup. I have no coral or fish and no rock. I was planning on getting the sand and water going then add some live rock this weekend from a local store.
Is it aragonite sand? I always have trouble rinsing that to completion
 

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Gonna do a low key clean today, going to put in a reverse under gravel filter and just want to stir up the sand bed and get out anything anoxic or dangerous. I’m not too worried about pristine aragonite, more worried about kicking up a dust cloud by blowing water up through the substrate and killing things.

My current plan is to drain the tank about halfway into a 10 gallon tank (will be used as sump at the end of this) transfer rocks and creatures into it, stir up the sand really really well and remove all the dirty water it creates. If it is really bad I will probably remove the sand and rinse it more. Install filter, replace sand, refill tank, replace rock work, transfer livestock back
 

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I just completed this also (kind of, I see I didn't clean my rocks as well probably) with our 65-gallon to 90-gallon tank transfer. It's day 5 and everything is looking great still. I'll upload another video this afternoon and post it here also. The one I took last night with no filter, doesn't show enough color of the corals for my liking ha-ha.

I bought two new bags of Caribsea Fiji and poked holes in the bottom and sides of the bags with a fork :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing: :grinning-face-with-sweat: . Then put a hole in the top, turned the hose on and let it run for about 90 minutes. I'd come out every 20 minutes or so and move the sand around and the hose to mix it a little. Took about 90 minutes per 20lb bag to be running clear.

When I transferred my rocks, I scrubbed my two rocks that had my Torches and hammers attached to them. They weren't too bad. Then I put them each in their own 5-gallon bucket of old tank water. Then I took out all of my rock, one at a time after shaking them in the old tank to get as much gunk off that way as I could. Sprayed them with H2O2 and Revive Coral dip. And scrubbed, and scrubbed, rinsed, sprayed, scrubbed some more and rinsed one more time in RODI water. I used a pretty hard green bristle brush to scrub with.

I then put the rock into the new tank and adjusted our aquascape to match the old 65-gallon setup closely. Then I took and pumped out some old tank water into the new tank. I filtered the water through a 100 micron filter sock as well as it went into the new tank. Then at the same time I started to catch all the fish and transfer them over as I could. Once I got the fish and corals transferred, and all the old tank water into the new tank, I started pumping in the new water to fill the remaining.

That was last Sunday 3-5-23

65-Gallon before: (Sorry, this is the most recent video before the transfer 2-22-23 I had no FTS)





65-Gallon a month ago showing it dirtier...:





90-Gallon last night: (need to get a new lens/filter for my new phone...) (also, I didn't scrub the rock with the gonis)


 
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C4ctus99

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There was a thread I came across a while ago where a guy experimented with rinsing aragonite and he came to the conclusion that the water was kinda melting it slightly and it would be impossible to get the water any better than like 90-95% clear. @brandon429 has probably dealt with and knows if what I said is accurate. I’ll have to find the thread later

I just rinsed it well enough and put it in and it was fine, little milky but settled down in a couple hours
Yes its CaribSea aragonite sand. Its nearly clear but still has a slight brown hue to it. Ive seen rinsing and siring it up for about 2.5 hours and it almost feels in vain at this point.
Yes its CaribSea aragonite sand. Its nearly clear but still has a slight brown hue to it. Ive seen rinsing and siring it up for about 2.5 hours and it almost feels in vain at this point. aragonite and came to the conclusion that
 
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brandon429

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It's Dan's thread from the chemistry forum

I like to read his studies

But we must hold course here due to our results. Anyone else is free to make a work thread using other people's tanks to run alongside this one, but we need to keep full rinsing in place to maintain these positive outcomes

No deviation allowed, we're not in it to save water we're in it for control over multi thousand dollar systems we can't change procedure as an experiment though if someone else wants to make a tank upgrade thread that isn't fully rinsed it will evolve the options available
 

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It's Dan's thread from the chemistry forum

I like to read his studies

But we must hold course here due to our results. Anyone else is free to make a work thread using other people's tanks to run alongside this one, but we need to keep full rinsing in place to maintain these positive outcomes

No deviation allowed, we're not in it to save water we're in it for control over multi thousand dollar systems we can't change procedure as an experiment though if someone else wants to make a tank upgrade thread that isn't fully rinsed it will evolve the options available
Yeah, it was dans, just found it. Have you been able to rinse aragonite to perfection and get away that milkiness? What are the tricks/tips? Or is it just wash for hours and eventually it will be clean water?

 

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