Palys, Palytoxins, and The Reef

[Cyanohater]

Alright so I'm gonna start this off by saying I already have a zoa garden. So what is going on is I found a really pretty palythoa on topshelf aquatics for a good price. I want to add it to my reef tank but I'm concerned about the dangers of palytoxins. I've seen some have it in their aquarium and it even bother their other corals. Of course everyone in the hobby already knows of boiling the rocks not doing that etc etc. What do you guys think about this. Will it bother my other corals? Would it be a good idea to add palythoas? Would I and others be safe?

 

[mike550]

@Cyanohater just my opinion, but I think the palytoxin issue is overblown. In terms of your own health, I think it’s a lot of common sense … mostly just washing your hands etc before and after you put them in the tank (don’t rub your eyes, etc). Others wear glasses or gloves as well. Check out Tidal Garden. I think the owner did a video on palythoas and discusses palytoxin

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I would take a wild guess that about 99% of reef home aquariums and LFS's have pally's in their tanks. Its been this way for many many years.

Considering the sheer numbers of people that have or had pally's, and absolutely zero deaths, and only an extremely rare number of cases of people getting irritated or infected, like I mean a handful, in all these years from so many people.

Those are pretty good odds, considering that everything we do in life has some measure of danger.

 

[Timfish]

How do you know your other corals don't have palytoxin? How do you know it not biological warfare that's causing issues between the palies and corals yuo saw in other systems? Palytoxin is made by a genus of dinoflagellate and can potentially be found anywhere in a marine environment (Furlan, et al) (Patocka, et al). It also may be concentrated in corals, invertabrates and fish that are associated with palies (Gliebs & Mebs). Marine organisms actuively promote preferential bacteria in the water aaround them and zoas and palies can promote bacteria antagonistic to stony corals (Welsh, et al) If you like the palies and can keep them under control to avoid taking over other animals and know what safetly precations to protect yourself go ahead and get them.

 

[vlangel]

I have 3 different palys in my 56 gallon tank plus paly grandis. I typically run a couple of Tablespoons of carbon that I change weekly and both myself and the tank have been fine. I even have to use tweezers and pull one variety out when it migrates to areas that I do not want it.

 

[areefer01]

@Cyanohater just my opinion, but I think the palytoxin issue is overblown. In terms of your own health, I think it’s a lot of common sense … mostly just washing your hands etc before and after you put them in the tank (don’t rub your eyes, etc). Others wear glasses or gloves as well. Check out Tidal Garden. I think the owner did a video on palythoas and discusses palytoxin

I urge you to do a search on Joe Yaiullo and his New York 20,000 gallon reef (public aquarium). It isn't overblown and it is real. Mr. Yaiullo's main reason for redoing the reef was palythoa's.

OP - one thing to keep in mind that they can be invasive. Good intentions but they find a way to be in a place where you don't want them. If you don't stay on top of them, in management and containment, you could have a mess on your hands. As far as the toxin goes and if it escapes the water hard to say. It isn't in my lane so will leave it alone. However I do urge you to listen to Mr. Yaiullo's talk (MACNA and Aquashella). It is amazing on its own but he talks about palytoxin.

If it is the main reason for rebuilding 20,000 reef it is worth listening to. Of course your mileage may vary...

​

 

[mike550]

@areefer01 FYI

Palytoxin and Analogs: Biological and Ecological Effects

Palytoxin (PTX) is a potent marine toxin that was originally found in soft corals from tropical areas of the Pacific Ocean. Soon after, its occurrence was observed in numerous other marine organisms from the same ecological region. More recently, several ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[taricha]

There are other corals out there that are at least as awesome without a similar level of risk.
I'm glad I just finished removing all the paly's from my system. Just my thoughts.

 

[encrustingacro]

Alright so I'm gonna start this off by saying I already have a zoa garden. So what is going on is I found a really pretty palythoa on topshelf aquatics for a good price. I want to add it to my reef tank but I'm concerned about the dangers of palytoxins. I've seen some have it in their aquarium and it even bother their other corals. Of course everyone in the hobby already knows of boiling the rocks not doing that etc etc. What do you guys think about this. Will it bother my other corals? Would it be a good idea to add palythoas? Would I and others be safe?

Are you sure it's a Palythoa? Most pretty "palys" are actually large polyped Zoanthus.

 

[flashsmith]

Just don't lick it and you should be fine.

 

[TnFishwater98]

Just don't lick it and you should be fine.

Acans do taste nice and very juicy….

 

[encrustingacro]

Just don't lick it and you should be fine.

Acans do taste nice and very juicy….

Please don't eat corals; you won't gain their nematocysts like nudibranchs.

 

[Rugops]

Please don't eat corals; you won't gain their nematocysts like nudibranchs.

Incorrect. I have polyps sprouting along my back.

 

[Cyanohater]

Are you sure it's a Palythoa? Most pretty "palys" are actually large polyped Zoanthus.

It's a lemon twist paly, and a captain America paly.

 

[Timfish]

Just FYI, I use steel straws with a siphon to remove stuff. This keeps stuff submerged and minimizes aerosolizing any mucus released.

 

[Rocktron1]

Geez. I've got palys and zoas, and had no idea they were toxic

I've handled them several times when snails and crabs knock them over. Looks like I'll be taking more care from now on. Handy info on this forum thanks guys

Also the LFS I got them from didn't handle them any different or even mention it to me

Couple of Palys below in pic

 

[TnFishwater98]

Geez. I've got palys and zoas, and had no idea they were toxic

I've handled them several times when snails and crabs knock them over. Looks like I'll be taking more care from now on. Handy info on this forum thanks guys

Also the LFS I got them from didn't handle them any different or even mention it to me

Couple of Palys below in pic

Crazy the people that don’t know. LFS need to be more vocal. I just read this post on R2R….
Post in thread 'Worried about Palytoxins'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/worried-about-palytoxins.908281/post-10195747

 

[encrustingacro]

It's a lemon twist paly, and a captain America paly.

I was wrong; they're both Palythoa

 

[areefer01]

We need more Gaudy Clown Crabs available.

 

[Timfish]

. . . I've handled them several times when snails and crabs knock them over. Looks like I'll be taking more care from now on. Handy info on this forum thanks guys . . .

I've been handling them for decades and I can't say with any certainty that I've been exposed. Of course I often have scratches from playing with my cats so I guess toxoplasmosis may counteract palytoxin. Not all palies zoas have palytoxin but it has been found in other corals and fish so simple precautions like gloves if you have any open wounds on your hands and not doing anythig that might aerosolize the mucus from corals is prudent.