Pressure on False Claim Products

[TokenReefer]

Yeah, but it's more fun to jump into a discussion after 14 pages and ridicule the premise and the people involved...

Talk about a waste of time!

There's a bigger picture here for sure

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Yeah, but it's more fun to jump into a discussion after 14 pages and ridicule the premise and the people involved...

Talk about a waste of time!

Yeah, we could be debating brushing, flossing, paste vs dry brushing, baking soda, water pik vs manual……oh wait

 

[Nonya]

Yeah, we could be debating brushing, flossing, paste vs dry brushing, baking soda, water pik vs manual……oh wait

I like the whitening strips...

 

[taricha]

Lol, I think I found it. It's the perfect antithesis of the Reef Chemistry forum.

and he said he doesn’t care what the heck is in it but it sure does work good. I will be dosing it next week.

You can reef the way you want to of course, but please understand that "don't care what's in it. just put it in the tank" is the complete opposite of what we do in the Reef Chem forum.
Here's the EPA label for vibrant, BTW[pdf]

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don’t know but I am getting over Dino’s and have a bunch of hair Algae to get rid of. The owner at the fish store I go to said he uses Vibrant and he said he doesn’t care what the heck is in it but it sure does work good. I will be dosing is next week.

It is true that the chemical pesticide in vibrant will kill algae. It can also kill other things. As long as you are aware of the risk, there’s nothing wrong with using that chemical, but I would never buy it from the company that misleads reefers about what it is rather than a company that tells you up front (as in Algaefix).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A number of companies sell products for both salt and fresh, and when making claims, rarely (and perhaps too conveniently) do they distinguish the two scenarios despite them sometimes having different results.

Chemipure by Boyd is a case in point, but even ignoring the lack of fresh vs salt distinction for the effects of things like their ion exchange resin in chemipure blue, they make other unbelievably stupid claims:

Chemi-pure - Chemi-pure Advanced Aquarist Products

chemi-pure.com

"Chemi-pure does not remove trace elements and is the only filter medium which aids in the natural balance of positive and negative charges, with an emphasis on the beneficial negative ion. "

"REMOVES TOXIC ELEMENTS – Including Copper & Phenol"

So copper is removed, or not?
Seriously? We need to work to attain charge balance? Did they forget that nature already provides charge balance? The beneficial negative ion? which one is that? Do tell. lol

Mass and Charge Balances

chem.libretexts.org

"This equation is known as a charge balance. It is important to realize that all solutions must be electrically neutral; that is, for every substance of positive charge there must be an equivalent amount of negative charge to balance it out. If something dissolves in water and produces positive ions, then there must be negative ions around to balance them out."

Here’s a follow up from Chemi Pure to the conflicting claims that it removes copper and dies not remove trace elements. Apparently it does not actually bind much copper. I guess we are supposed to ignore their claim about it.

 

[jda]

Keep challenging claims. Its important.

This is exactly right. If anybody think that these companies are bad now, how bad would it be if nobody ever spoke up. We would have Vibranium supplements in a bottle and a method called Wakanda Method Reef.

Since the vibrant deal, a few companies, including BlueVet have started to let folks know what antibiotics are in their products - I don't know if they decided it was the right thing to do, or if they are worried that they broke the law (they likely did), but they are being transparent now.

You only have to work on a few of these before the rest all get in line. The first few are the hardest.

Although I might hope that we get to a place where Company XYZ asks a real chemist if their findings are legit, I would just be happy if we got half way there were they were willing to take advice and change labels if necessary.

 

[tnw50cal]

I am telling you to win against this misinformation, DONT BUY THEIR CRAP. That will get their attention. I'm envious you seem to think a company gives a crap about the product though. Maybe when they first started.

Sorry totally off the topic but, can some explain what? is in Vibrant? I thought it was bacteria. Did you find out something different.

But new people come into the hobby and start with limited knowledge and BUY THEIR CRAP. So a thread like this one can help but only if the uninformed reads it, other wise they will BUY THEIR CRAP. Bugger did NOT see the few threads on the forum about what Vibrant really is(it ain't bacteria) and will buy it. You are RIGHT the company that makes it doesn't give a crap as long as they are making money selling it.

 

[tnw50cal]

Yeah, we could be debating brushing, flossing, paste vs dry brushing, baking soda, water pik vs manual……oh wait

I like the whitening strips...

You guys are great, I love this place.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

Here’s a follow up from Chemi Pure to the conflicting claims that it removes copper and dies not remove trace elements. Apparently it does not actually bind much copper. I guess we are supposed to ignore their claim about it.

So they are essentially saying, "yeah, it removes some, so it won't be 'toxic' but not that much so it can still be 'trace'"....

 

[Thales]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

This is great. Thanks. I always wanted to make a reefbusters team to try to deal with stuff like this, but who has the money to fund it. Maybe crowd sourcing it is the way to go.

Rock on

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Here’s a follow up from Chemi Pure to the conflicting claims that it removes copper and dies not remove trace elements. Apparently it does not actually bind much copper. I guess we are supposed to ignore their claim about it.

Sorry, that post got cut off. Heres the Chemi pure reply:

Hi Randy,

Chemi-pure is an excellent filtration media and as such it helps to remove copper as well as many other various pollutants, toxins etc.

However, the amount of copper that is adsorbed is very minimal and we would not recommend relying on Chemi-pure to completely remove copper from an aquarium.

As far as the removal of trace elements, the adsorption is so minimal, that if you were able to test the levels before adding Chemi-pure and after a unit has been exhausted, the results would be undetectable.

It is commonly recommended to remove any type of carbon/filtration media during a medicated treatment to be sure to not interfere with the potency or the duration of said treatment.

Please let us know if you have any other questions.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So I guess they think it is fair to explicitly claim it binds copper, but then to admit it binds so little as to not be useful.

 

[Devisissy]

Crest whitening strips work tho.

 

[FUNGI]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

This is great. Thanks. I always wanted to make a reefbusters team to try to deal with stuff like this, but who has the money to fund it. Maybe crowd sourcing it is the way to go.

Rock on

maybe get a company sponsor.......

 

[taricha]

Heh, the bit about testing traces before and after using the product, and the difference being undetectable was illuminating.

 

[rtparty]

Heh, the bit about testing traces before and after using the product, and the difference being undetectable was illuminating.

It’s a straight admittance that they’re not sure what it does and likely does nothing

 

[Nonya]

So I guess they think it is fair to explicitly claim it binds copper, but then to admit it binds so little as to not be useful.

Or even detectable.

 

[FUNGI]

Sorry, that post got cut off. Heres the Chemi pure reply:

Hi Randy,

Chemi-pure is an excellent filtration media and as such it helps to remove copper as well as many other various pollutants, toxins etc.

However, the amount of copper that is adsorbed is very minimal and we would not recommend relying on Chemi-pure to completely remove copper from an aquarium.

As far as the removal of trace elements, the adsorption is so minimal, that if you were able to test the levels before adding Chemi-pure and after a unit has been exhausted, the results would be undetectable.

It is commonly recommended to remove any type of carbon/filtration media during a medicated treatment to be sure to not interfere with the potency or the duration of said treatment.

Please let us know if you have any other questions.

Thats huge news......even for them to admit it in an email......I wonder what Bob F. would have had to say.....

 

[Nonya]

Assuming I'm referring to the same ChemiPure media product, it contains "activated carbon plus high-grade ion-exchange resins" in a bag.

"High-grade ion-exchange resins"...as in DI resin?