Quarantined Blue Tang with Ich

[Thraciandrummer]

Ok I'll give is a few more days and then do a large water change and dose cupramine.

 

[Thraciandrummer]

I don't have the capacity to do the TTM and I am not going to get a prescription from a vet, so I will give it a few more days, do a 75% water change and then try Cupramine.

 

[Thraciandrummer]

So it's been a few more days and the blue tang still has Ich (Yellow Tang still Fine). I ordered some Cupramine on Amazon which will arrive today. I was doing a lot of research yesterday and I found that a lot of people who have fish with Ich or other diseases will freshwater dip these fish for 5 minutes which, from what I've read and watched on YouTube thus far, shows pretty decent success. My plan for today is this, and please tell me if you disagree or think I am going about this the wrong way. I am going to throw a carbon cartridge in the Penguin HOB Filter to remove the CopperPower that is in the water right now. After the carbon has removed most of the Copper. I will do a 75% water change. After the water change I will prepare a fresh water dip for the blue tang making sure the temperature and PH of the RODI freshwater matches the QT the Blue is in right now. After a 5 minute dip I will return the blue to the QT and I will dose Cupramine in the QT. I am hoping between a huge water change, a freshwater dip and Cupramine that this guy should be Ich free. After that I will leave the two tangs in the QT for another 2 weeks to monitor for any signs of Ich before I put them in the DT. I may also freshwater dip the Yellow Tang prior to him going in the DT just to make sure.

 

[Humblefish]

Performing a FW dip on a fish with velvet will help clear the gills, but with ich the benefits are less known and it is oft-debated subject. However IME, so long as you take proper precautions (temp match/oxygenate the water beforehand) there is minimal risk to performing a FW dip so I say have at it. I think switching over to Cupramine is a good move. I also suggest picking up either a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit so that you can measure your Cu levels in the QT on a regular basis.

 

[Thraciandrummer]

I have an API test kit for Copper will that not work with Cupramine?

 

[Humblefish]

I have an API test kit for Copper will that not work with Cupramine?

Yes; but it can be hard to read that low. Cupramine should be kept around 0.5ppm, and personally I have a hard time distinguishing 0.25 from 0.5 using the API test kit. They both look like the same shade of yellow to me. Seachem/Salifert copper test kit is designed to read in the low range, and is easier to read when using Cupramine IME.

 

[Thraciandrummer]

Ok thanks for the info.

 

[Thraciandrummer]

Ok, so now my Yellow tang also has Ich. I suppose it was hard to see on him at first since he's bright yellow which made white spots hard to see. So once again I have done a good bit of research and have come up with the following game plan to hopefully rid these two of Ich. I added a carbon cartridge last night to remove the Copper Power I had in the water. Tonight I will do a 75% water change, and dose the water with Cupramine instead of the copper power. I will give this until Thursday to show some signs of improvement. If by Thursday nothing gets better, I will prepare RODI water for a freshwater dip by matching temp and PH. If the freshwater dip doesn't have them showing signs of improvement, my last hope is to start adding garlic, ginger, and I think I read about adding vitamin A & C to their food. If a water change, Cupramine, a freshwater dip and garlic, ginger and vitamins in their food doesn't do the trick, then I suppose I just bought two tangs that are going to live their lives out in a 20 gallon QT because I don't know what else to do. any advice?

 

[Humblefish]

Your plan sounds fine, except you need to give Cupramine a little more time to work. Once you have reached therapeutic levels (0.35-0.5 mg/L for Cupramine), you need to wait at least a week for all of the white spots to disappear. Hold your copper level steady for at least 1 month.

 

[Thraciandrummer]

So after all ich has fallen off they still need to remain in the QT for a full month after that?

 

[Humblefish]

So after all ich has fallen off they still need to remain in the QT for a full month after that?

Yes, because copper does not kill the parasites on the fish. No chemical/hypo treatment does. What copper does is prevent your fish from getting ich again after the trophonts drop off of them. This typically takes 3-7 days. After the trophonts fall off, the parasite encysts and then releases theronts (aka free swimmers) which seek out fish to infect. Theronts are the only stage targeted by chemical treatments (ex. copper) and hyposalinity.

 

[Thraciandrummer]

Ok well after the water change I was unable to put the cupramine in because they carbon cartridge that I put in over 24 hours ago did nearly nothing to remove the copper power from the water. The water change took out most of it but there is still a good amount in there. I thought carbon removed copper from the water...

 

[Humblefish]

I thought carbon removed copper from the water...

It does... but it usually takes longer than just 24 hrs. Also, running carbon in a media reactor makes more efficient use of it than, say, putting it in a media bag.

 

[Thraciandrummer]

Ok th n I will give it more time. The blue tang is starting to look like he's on his last leg. On his side a lot since last night. I don't know what else to do for him.

 

[Humblefish]

Ok th n I will give it more time. The blue tang is starting to look like he's on his last leg. On his side a lot since last night. I don't know what else to do for him.

You could go ahead with the FW dip and then just put him right back in copper water. Formalin bath would be another option, but that is considerably harsher than doing a FW dip. Both are great for fish with velvet, but for ich the benefits are less clear.

 

[Thraciandrummer]

Ok. I have no time for that today, but I have RODI water made for a freshwater dip already, I just need to get the temp and PH right. I heard getting the PH of RODI freshwater to match the tank the fish in is a little tricky, but I am going to try Baking Soda. Hopefully I can get them into the freshwater dip on Thursday then. I am also hoping by then that all the Coppwer POwer will be out of the QT they are in so I am able to get the Cupramine in there.

 

[Humblefish]

Ok. I have no time for that today, but I have RODI water made for a freshwater dip already, I just need to get the temp and PH right. I heard getting the PH of RODI freshwater to match the tank the fish in is a little tricky, but I am going to try Baking Soda. Hopefully I can get them into the freshwater dip on Thursday then. I am also hoping by then that all the Coppwer POwer will be out of the QT they are in so I am able to get the Cupramine in there.

Fish are not overly sensitive to pH swings for short durations. However, squirting a little tank water into the FW dip will help bring the pH up. In fact, that's all I ever do, and I haven't lost one yet (out of hundreds). See more info below:

Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes, Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.

How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.

Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead†during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.

For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time†until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix†for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normalâ€.

 

[Thraciandrummer]

Great man. thanks for all your help. I hope this works. I want to get this stuff off of them. I am starting to get worried about even putting these guys into the display tank. I don't want them to introduce ich into my display even after I have cured them of it.

 

[Thraciandrummer]

So here's an update. Haven't yet done the freshwater dip due to just a lack of time. I have done a lot of reading about people having success with Ginger, so I figured before I stress the fish out even more by dipping it in freshwater I might as well take a stab at trying ginger. I took 4 cubes of frozen food, defrosted them , added 1/4 tsp of ginger, a little water to make it a liquid mixture and then refroze into cubes. I have now fed this ginger concoction to the fish for the last three days. After the first feeding I noticed all the white spots on the yellow tang are gone and have not returned. The Blue lost some of the white spots, but still has some. He is massively happier though. He is a nice bold blue color and he is swimming around the tank like a mad man. He is no longer scratches on things and he seems like a way happier fish. I think I am going to continue feeding ginger indefinitely because it seems to absolutely help mood and immune system of the fish. I am beginning to think that maybe this isn't Ich since it's been a full three weeks that these spots have been on the fish and they have not fell off. I know that after 3-5 days of the ich parasite being on a fish it is supposed to fall off and then multiply and find a new fish host, but at no point have I really seen anything fall off of the Blue tang until I started feeding ginger. If after this week the Ginger hasn't gotten rid of all the white spots then I will freshwater dip and continue with copper and ginger, but right now he seems much much better.

 

[4FordFamily]

Do NOT use ANY nitrite, nitrate and ammonia detoxifiers with copper. I have killed DOZE NS of fish by doing this in the past, it makes the copper 5-10x more potent and toxic to the animals. Just do water changes, and if you wish, dose seachem stability or another bacteria product to move the cycle along as best you can.

I would change as much water as you possibly can if you have not already to remove the copper/detoxifier you dosed in. Again, stay away from prime, amquel and the like during medication treatments.

good luck!