RODI booster pump only kicks on for on for DI

Doob · Mar 8, 2024

Good day all. We’ve moved to a new house and since moving my setup to the new house, the booster pump only kicks on when I’m making DI water. When the system kicks on to refill the drinking water storage tank, the booster pump remains off. This was not the case at the old house, and I’ve been racking my brain to figure out why. Attached is a photo of the system and a 1 line diagram of the plumbing.

The auto shut off valve and flow regulator were replaced during the intallation in the new house.

It’s not the end of the world because the water pressure here is 60psi without the booster, so I guess technically I don’t even need the pump. I sure do like not understanding though.

Buckeye Hydro · Mar 8, 2024

I'm seeing a number of issues with the way you have your system configured...

But specifically about the issue you asked about, suggest that you get rid of your ASOV and instead install a solenoid valve on the feedwater line. Run that solenoid off the same circuit that controls your booster pump. I think what you're seeing is the ASOV and pressure switch not playing well together.

Doob · Mar 8, 2024

Buckeye Hydro said:
I'm seeing a number of issues with the way you have your system configured...

But specifically about the issue you asked about, suggest that you get rid of your ASOV and instead install a solenoid valve on the feedwater line. Run that solenoid off the same circuit that controls your booster pump. I think what you're seeing is the ASOV and pressure switch not playing well together.

Thanks for the reply! That’s a great idea, I’ve never loved the ASOV. I wonder if the difference is source pressure is why they’re suddenly not in agreement.

I’d love to hear what else I might have wrong in the setup, I’m always trying to make things better.

If I had to guess, one would be the mismatched membrane ratings. The water saver kit when I added the second membrane came with a the 100 and I only recently learned about the flow regulator and its job. I did find a graph that showed overlapping ratings and suggested the 800 would be fine for both membranes. Nevertheless, I do have 2 new 100gpd membranes waiting to be installed.

Buckeye Hydro · Mar 9, 2024

Please take this as constructive feedback, not as bashing. This would be better done over the phone where we could have some back and forth, but here goes:

What is the pore size on your sediment filter?
If the pore size on your sediment filter is correct, put your highest capacity carbon block next, not your largest pore carbon block.
If you remove your ASOV put a strainer in line prior to the pump.
Assuming you have an Aquatec 8800 pump, you'll not get good performance from it with two 100 gpd membranes.
You made no mention of your water hardness. As is the case with most users, and apparently with the vendor who promotes plumbing these membranes in series, it is an ill-advised configuration if you have hard water - it generates more sales in replacement membranes for the vendor tho.
On top of that you have mismatched membranes - if you have hard water you want those membranes in parallel, not series, and you want each membrane to have an appropriate flow restrictor.
You'll want a TDS meter on the permeate tube after each membrane
No need for the valve after the flow restrictor. It doesn't hurt anything but it's not needed.
Your inline carbon filter should be between the pressurized storage tank and the faucet - you have it in the wrong place.
Your TDS2 probe is after the inline carbon filter - that's not the correct location for that.
I don't see a purpose for the check valve on the DI leg.
Assuming you're using two mixed be di carts you want a tds probe after each DI

Russ

Doob · Mar 9, 2024

Please take this as constructive feedback, not as bashing. This would be better done over the phone where we could have some back and forth, but here goes:

Not at all! I appreciate you taking the time. A call could be arranged if that's more convenient. This is obviously not my area of expertise, I ordered a BRS system in the beginning and make changes to it as I learn.

What is the pore size on your sediment filter?

Its a 5 micron sediment filter. If the pore size is something else, I'm unable to find the information. I can report that the sediment filter has NEVER become visably dirty, I just change all the filters together. These filters are the only thing I buy from BRS these days, as I don't feel I know enough to be choosing new filters myself. Is your suggestion add a strainer to the source, then use a finer sediment filter, then arrange carbon blocks by capacity?

If the pore size on your sediment filter is correct, put your highest capacity carbon block next, not your largest pore carbon block.

The capacities of the carbon block are listed as follows:
5 micron (1st): Chlorine - 15,000 gallons @ 1GPM
VOC - 1,000 gallons @ 3.5 GPM
1 Micron (2nd): Chlorine - 35,000 gallons @ 1GPM
Chloramines - 2000 gallons @ 1GPM
Chloramines - 3,500 gallons @ .5GPM

If you remove your ASOV put a strainer in line prior to the pump.

Easy enough, even though the pump is post pre filters?

Assuming you have an Aquatec 8800 pump, you'll not get good performance from it with two 100 gpd membranes.

That is the pump I have. What do you suggest here? Eliminate it since my source is already 60 psi? Or is there a better pump?

You made no mention of your water hardness. As is the case with most users, and apparently with the vendor who promotes plumbing these membranes in series, it is an ill-advised configuration if you have hard water - it generates more sales in replacement membranes for the vendor tho.

I actually haven't tested hardness in the new house yet, but I will have the number by the end of the day. The unit is post water softener, and the source TDS reads around 200. I understand that's not the same as hardness. I did add the flush valve on the waste line here at the new house too because I read that it can extend membrane life. I haven't been using it as suggested though: flush for 5-10 minutes before and after every time you make water. I've just been flushing it for 1-2 minutes before making RODI for water changes.

On top of that you have mismatched membranes - if you have hard water you want those membranes in parallel, not series, and you want each membrane to have an appropriate flow restrictor.

I do have a whole set of new filters waiting to be installed, including 2 new 100GPD membranes. I can do this after I get all this advise implemented.

You'll want a TDS meter on the permeate tube after each membrane

Is this to monitor membrane life?

No need for the valve after the flow restrictor. It doesn't hurt anything but it's not needed.

I sanitize the system usually when I change the membranes. This is only to close the waste line so the sanitizing solution doesnt go right down the drain.

Your inline carbon filter should be between the pressurized storage tank and the faucet - you have it in the wrong place.

Again, this is how the system came. Is the downside of this just wasted filter life? I could definitely move it to under the sink with the faucet.

Your TDS2 probe is after the inline carbon filter - that's not the correct location for that.

It was a convenient post membrane location. I'll move it to immediately post membrane.

I don't see a purpose for the check valve on the DI leg.

Just to keep the DI water separate, so It can't backflow into the drinking water tank.

Assuming you're using two mixed be di carts you want a tds probe after each DI

I am using 2 mixed bed color changing canisters. Once the 1st is depleted and I see the 2nd canister start to change at the bottom, I switch the 2 and put fresh resin in 2nd location again.

Russ

THANKS AGAIN!

Buckeye Hydro · Mar 10, 2024

Doob said:
Its a 5 micron sediment filter. If the pore size is something else, I'm unable to find the information. I can report that the sediment filter has NEVER become visably dirty, I just change all the filters together. These filters are the only thing I buy from BRS these days, as I don't feel I know enough to be choosing new filters myself. Is your suggestion add a strainer to the source, then use a finer sediment filter, then arrange carbon blocks by capacity?

Yep - that is not the sediment filter that should be used with your carbon blocks. I'd suggest you use a 1 micron sediment followed by you 1 mc carbon block followed by your 5 mic carbon block.

Doob said:
If you remove your ASOV put a strainer in line prior to the pump.

Easy enough, even though the pump is post pre filters?

Yes - the strainer is to keep and small carbon pieces that come off the block out of the pump. I'd say this is an ideal way of doing it but not absolutely necessary in my experience.

Doob said:
Assuming you have an Aquatec 8800 pump, you'll not get good performance from it with two 100 gpd membranes.

That is the pump I have. What do you suggest here? Eliminate it since my source is already 60 psi? Or is there a better pump?

Because you already bought the two 100 gpd membranes go ahead and use them - you just won't get a big pressure boost from that pump. When you replace the them I'd steer you towards two 75 membranes instead. There is a higher capacity booster pump here: https://www.buckeyehydro.com/high-capacity-booster-pump-3-8-inch/

Doob said:
You made no mention of your water hardness. As is the case with most users, and apparently with the vendor who promotes plumbing these membranes in series, it is an ill-advised configuration if you have hard water - it generates more sales in replacement membranes for the vendor tho.

I actually haven't tested hardness in the new house yet, but I will have the number by the end of the day. The unit is post water softener, and the source TDS reads around 200. I understand that's not the same as hardness. I did add the flush valve on the waste line here at the new house too because I read that it can extend membrane life. I haven't been using it as suggested though: flush for 5-10 minutes before and after every time you make water. I've just been flushing it for 1-2 minutes before making RODI for water changes.

Ah-ha! That's good. Assuming your water softener is working, the RODI feedwater should be < 1 grain per gallon hardness. So the two-membranes-plumbed-in-series configuration is OK for your situation.

Doob said:
You'll want a TDS meter on the permeate tube after each membrane

Is this to monitor membrane life?

Yes - this is how you'll calculate the rejection rate of each membrane and know when it's time to replace one of them.

Doob said:
No need for the valve after the flow restrictor. It doesn't hurt anything but it's not needed.

I sanitize the system usually when I change the membranes. This is only to close the waste line so the sanitizing solution doesnt go right down the drain.

That's good!

Doob said:
Your inline carbon filter should be between the pressurized storage tank and the faucet - you have it in the wrong place.

Again, this is how the system came. Is the downside of this just wasted filter life? I could definitely move it to under the sink with the faucet.

Might want to check how all that is plumbed again - if that is really how your vendor plumbed it in... holy cow! It's purpose is to remove the taste and odor the water picks up inside the pressurized storage tank. You have it plumbed in before the storage tank so it is really doing nothing for you as is. In fact, it is likely adding TDS to the feedwater for your DI - no good.

Doob said:
I am using 2 mixed bed color changing canisters. Once the 1st is depleted and I see the 2nd canister start to change at the bottom, I switch the 2 and put fresh resin in 2nd location again.

The color changing feature is only a very rough gauge - depend more on your TDS meter.

Doob · Apr 8, 2024

Buckeye Hydro said:
Yep - that is not the sediment filter that should be used with your carbon blocks. I'd suggest you use a 1 micron sediment followed by you 1 mc carbon block followed by your 5 mic carbon block.

Yes - the strainer is to keep and small carbon pieces that come off the block out of the pump. I'd say this is an ideal way of doing it but not absolutely necessary in my experience.

Because you already bought the two 100 gpd membranes go ahead and use them - you just won't get a big pressure boost from that pump. When you replace the them I'd steer you towards two 75 membranes instead. There is a higher capacity booster pump here: https://www.buckeyehydro.com/high-capacity-booster-pump-3-8-inch/

Ah-ha! That's good. Assuming your water softener is working, the RODI feedwater should be < 1 grain per gallon hardness. So the two-membranes-plumbed-in-series configuration is OK for your situation.

Yes - this is how you'll calculate the rejection rate of each membrane and know when it's time to replace one of them.

That's good!

Might want to check how all that is plumbed again - if that is really how your vendor plumbed it in... holy cow! It's purpose is to remove the taste and odor the water picks up inside the pressurized storage tank. You have it plumbed in before the storage tank so it is really doing nothing for you as is. In fact, it is likely adding TDS to the feedwater for your DI - no good.

The color changing feature is only a very rough gauge - depend more on your TDS meter.

Could you refer me to an in line strainer? I’ve been unsuccessful finding one. I will be placing an order with you for the solenoid and other things this week!

KStatefan · Apr 8, 2024

Doob said:
Could you refer me to an in line strainer? I’ve been unsuccessful finding one. I will be placing an order with you for the solenoid and other things this week!

Strainer

At Buckeye Hydro we specialize in providing the highest quality water filtration systems and accessories for every potential need.

www.buckeyehydro.com

Doob · Apr 8, 2024

KStatefan said:
Strainer

At Buckeye Hydro we specialize in providing the highest quality water filtration systems and accessories for every potential need.

www.buckeyehydro.com

thank you!

Doob · Apr 8, 2024

Buckeye Hydro said:
Yep - that is not the sediment filter that should be used with your carbon blocks. I'd suggest you use a 1 micron sediment followed by you 1 mc carbon block followed by your 5 mic carbon block.

Yes - the strainer is to keep and small carbon pieces that come off the block out of the pump. I'd say this is an ideal way of doing it but not absolutely necessary in my experience.

Because you already bought the two 100 gpd membranes go ahead and use them - you just won't get a big pressure boost from that pump. When you replace the them I'd steer you towards two 75 membranes instead. There is a higher capacity booster pump here: https://www.buckeyehydro.com/high-capacity-booster-pump-3-8-inch/

Ah-ha! That's good. Assuming your water softener is working, the RODI feedwater should be < 1 grain per gallon hardness. So the two-membranes-plumbed-in-series configuration is OK for your situation.

Yes - this is how you'll calculate the rejection rate of each membrane and know when it's time to replace one of them.

That's good!

Might want to check how all that is plumbed again - if that is really how your vendor plumbed it in... holy cow! It's purpose is to remove the taste and odor the water picks up inside the pressurized storage tank. You have it plumbed in before the storage tank so it is really doing nothing for you as is. In fact, it is likely adding TDS to the feedwater for your DI - no good.

The color changing feature is only a very rough gauge - depend more on your TDS meter.