Should I switch to Radion LEDs from MH/T5?
- Thread starter hatfielj
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ritter6788
Coral Fraud Private Eye
I haven't fried a coral with my LEDs yet and I run them at 100%. No tuning or learning curve.
I think part of the hate for LEDs is from your statement. People take coral from a MH or T5 tank and put them under LEDs and say "oh my T5s are better". You can't move corals from one lighting to another and compare. You have to let the corals color up under the lighting. I've bought corals from MH tanks with good color but they look like dirt in my led tank at first. After they settle in the colors are as good as the MH tank. I also took some corals to a frag swap but I did the opposite of you. My corals looked like garbage under t5s.
FX CharityCorals
Well-Known Member
I'm talking about just putting them under blue LEDs compared to blue plus. I understand why because the blue led is one single nm while the blue plus is a spectrum. Which is why I like the T5 better. I really don't care what light someone has on there tank as long as they have a healthy tank. I personally don't like the colors of corals under led. My preference.
ritter6788
Coral Fraud Private Eye
^^^ Sums it up right there. It's your preference. LEDs, MH, t5 are all good choices for reef lighting.
FX CharityCorals
Well-Known Member
Agreed
That is a good point there. Also if someone has been running MH for 20 years and just switches guess what, they are probably not going to like the color or brightness or something that is just different. One issue many reef hobbyist have is never really being happy with their tank. Perhaps happy is too strong, but they are never content. They want faster SPS growth or more color or less color or even different growth patterns. I too get caught in the trap of wanting more and more, but sometimes we need to step back and appreciate what we have if the corals are growing and the look good.
Not saying this of anyone in the thread, but I have personally seen several reefers switch from MH to LED. Things are different or they think the coral is growing too slowly (although I have not seen anyone really measure) so they get fussy with their tanks - doing WC more often or dosing better or even just giving the tank more attention. After a short time they give up on the LEDs and switch back but it's hard to tell if the greater attention is what produced results and they really didn't wait long enough, like months or longer.
Depending on the system a simple light swap might not really be enough. Perhaps you have to increase water flow because the corals are getting more light with the LEDs, or you have to feed or supplement AA or dose more.
If you and your coral are happy then don't stress out. Now if you have a huge system and want to save money, mostly by not having to run chillers, then switch, and hopefully you will be happy even if things look different.
Sleeperr34
Active Member
Hart well said. That is very true. More often or not people do look at something better or quicker. And i think that sometimes is the downfall of the leds like hydra or radion. With mh thats it. Yea u can dose more and take better care. But leds u can change the lights as well. And if anything changing the lights again and again prob cause more stress on corals. I know i have been at fault with this part as well.
d2mini
5000 Club Member
It's not about changing lights stressing the coral. Well, in the short term it is.
Set up two separate tanks. Led on one, mh/t5 on the other. Everything else the same.
In fact, set up 100 pairs of tanks.
I would be willing to bet a WHOLE lotta monies that the majority of the mh/t5 tanks would pull ahead in growth and overall health of the sps.
I've started and run tanks both ways and this is what I've experienced. YMMV.
Set up two separate tanks. Led on one, mh/t5 on the other. Everything else the same.
In fact, set up 100 pairs of tanks.
I would be willing to bet a WHOLE lotta monies that the majority of the mh/t5 tanks would pull ahead in growth and overall health of the sps.
I've started and run tanks both ways and this is what I've experienced. YMMV.
Sleeperr34
Active Member
Thats what i like about the vivid aquarium test did on that. One half the tank MH other led. And after a month showed before and after picks of coral that was in both sides of the tank. Some did grow a little quicker in MH. And some did better in led. Same as color. But i would love to have the time to do a full test with diff tanks running on the same filter led vs mh. To block each light from the other tank. So it only gets the light i want it to get. But that is the only way to truly tell if there is a true diff between the two. If its half and half then some light will shine on other side so not a perfect diff. And if its two diff systems in two diff rooms. There is not way to make both tanks equal to exactly the same details other then the lights.
Photons of light are photons of light. LED, T5, MH, they are all the same. There is nothing fundamentally different about the light they produce, now matching spectrum and intensities is not always easy, but light is the same. The real difference, if spectrum is complete, seems to be with the point source nature of LED lights, large colones tend to self shade unless lit from multiple angles like how you can mount the maxspect mazrra system. I hope eventually LEDs can be mounted with a specialized reflector, almost like what the dentist use, where they light shines away into the reflector and then it illuminates the target not directly from the source, but from the reflector.
I have been reading lately that led do not produce nearly as much radiation as mh and t5. Par stands for photosynthic available radiation. To produce this radiation led have to use much more intensity than t5 and mh. The way this was explained was pigment in coral are similar to.pigment in human skin. This is where the absorption takes place. The same radiation is used to tan our skin as corals and plants use for energy. If led had this same effect then led tanning beds would exist. With the high cost of bulb changes and energy with a tanning bed they would make them if it worked.
Led will also only emit one nanometer of light per diode. People can argue full spectrum all they want because they "mix". In fact, you are still only producing a specific nanometer with each diode. 440nm next to a 650nm will not mix, you still have 440nm and 650nm.
You got that a little mixed up... You are talking UV... But you are right leds dont produce UV.. Actually there are some but they are very expensive and dont show up in the fixtures used for reefs.
Some of the pigments in corals are used as a suncreen to protect from uv. That UV is gone those corals could loose those pigments for sure.
That wont work.. The small reflectors that can basically spotlight (concentrate) the light is what gives led its advantage.. Very little light is lost.
You start bouncing the light around and back into the led array the light is wasted. Halides waste allot of light, that is why they need to be such high wattage, The bulbs are huge and waste light..
Same thing with t-5.. The reflectors are the key, they waste very little light. Why wouldn't a vho t-12 not beat out a ho t-5?... Wasted light... The smaller bulbs make for better reflectors.
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You started out talking about Photosynthetically active radiation and then kept talking about radiation like UV and PAR are the same thing which they are not. I think it is just the way you worded it made it sound like that..
What is the radiation? Tanning beds produce UVA rays, between 320-400nm. There are not led beds right now simply because not many LED manufactures wish to invest in creating LEDs in that wavelength. There are some LEDs that are in the UV range, but the application is pretty specialized and they are still expensive to put enough in to cover a human. Nothing more to it. MH lights contain a UV blocking glass as you probably know. Actually LEDs don't produce and exact wavelength, there is still some range in there, it just isn't as much as other lights. While LEDs work similar to florescent tubes in that the inside surface is coated with a substance that emits white light. Different spectrums do blend, just add the primary colors, red, green, and blue to make white light, LEDs can do that too. If they didn't "mix" that wouldn't be possible.
I would like to see more about that. LEDs can produce tons of light, really if some is wasted by mixing that is ok, how many people run their LEDs at 100%? LEDs are given their advantage by taking less energy to produce light so there is less heat produced for the same amount of light. Yes halides waste a lot of light, but the reason they are so energy intensive isn't all that light, it is how much energy is wasted with heat.
Sorry, this is the message I was referring to.
That doesn't make sense. The tanning bed industry is a $5billion a year industry. Why is it they are making led for fish tanks when that industry is about $12million a year? They don't like money?
They make a white appearance to our eyes because they do mix the nm. But you're still getting very specific nm, not everything in between. Like a pink led is actually a 420nm diode with a coating. The coating reacts to the 420nm and produces a 660nm. The end result is something we see as pink, but it only produces 420nm and 660nm.
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They don't make LEDs for fish tanks, they make them for other lighting and some companies re-purpose them for fish tanks. As for specifics I don't know, I don't work for LED or tanning bed companies. I just know currently true uv LEDs are very expensive and it would take a ton of them to cover a human head to toe, but I am sure as time goes on you will start seeing some. Here is a good article about uv LEDs, there just isn't much money in it right now:
UV LEDs ramp up the quiet side of the LED market (MAGAZINE) - LEDs
But they would give you a tan just fine just as they will UV sterilize with UVC light.
As for the reflector idea it seems to already be happening in headlight technology to some extent.
LED Headlights | LED Headlamps | Nighthawk LED | GE Lighting North America
Kuryakyn Trucklite Phase 7 LED Headlamp
It would be an interesting experiment to use multicolors in a larger version of those reflectors. I have not seen that if someone has done it.
UV LEDs ramp up the quiet side of the LED market (MAGAZINE) - LEDs
But they would give you a tan just fine just as they will UV sterilize with UVC light.
As for the reflector idea it seems to already be happening in headlight technology to some extent.
LED Headlights | LED Headlamps | Nighthawk LED | GE Lighting North America
Kuryakyn Trucklite Phase 7 LED Headlamp
It would be an interesting experiment to use multicolors in a larger version of those reflectors. I have not seen that if someone has done it.
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