Solving my chrysophytes issue one and for all

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

You must have stumbled across my thread on chrysophytes (Symbiodinium, generically).

I could be mistaken, but isn't Symbiodinium a genius of dinoflagellates, and synonymous with zooxanthellae?
How do they incorporate into chrysophytes?

 

[bobssecrtsn]

I’m following this thread. Unfortunately I think I triggered this algae again by adding a dry base rock that I had laying around into the main display. Micro fuana wasnt quick enough to seed it and it’s taking over just the rock I added and now slightly appearing else where. I should have used one of the rocks in the sump.

I was going to try fluconazole but I would loose more then I would gain if things go sideways..

instead this is what I will be doing.
I’ll be dosing this mixture and starting blasting my rock work again.

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[taricha]

I could be mistaken, but isn't Symbiodinium a genius of dinoflagellates, and synonymous with zooxanthellae?
How do they incorporate into chrysophytes?

This was an early confusion. The things we see were labeled "symbiodinium-like" due to their similarities with the zooxanthellae in corals.

here's a pic I took of chrysophytes (lighter gold) on a slide mixed with zoox I squeezed out of a coral (darker brown).

Later thinking is that they are chrysophytes though that's not an opinion from any professional - They lack cyano- and dino-specific water-soluble pigments, and that seems where their traits fit best.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

This was an early confusion. The things we see were labeled "symbiodinium-like" due to their similarities with the zooxanthellae in corals.

here's a pic I took of chrysophytes (lighter gold) on a slide mixed with zoox I squeezed out of a coral (darker brown).

Later thinking is that they are chrysophytes though that's not an opinion from any professional - They lack cyano- and dino-specific water-soluble pigments, and that seems where their traits fit best.

I thought diatoms used to be considered chrysophytes, nothing to do with dinos...

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

This was an early confusion. The things we see were labeled "symbiodinium-like" due to their similarities with the zooxanthellae in corals.

here's a pic I took of chrysophytes (lighter gold) on a slide mixed with zoox I squeezed out of a coral (darker brown).

Later thinking is that they are chrysophytes though that's not an opinion from any professional - They lack cyano- and dino-specific water-soluble pigments, and that seems where their traits fit best.

Don't be squeezing your coral!!

 

[ScottB]

Have you tried fluconazole ? @ScottB mentioned he used this with success?

If I wrote that I was drinking more than normal. Fluc has a singular purpose: Bryopsis algae. This is the ONLY reason to put it in your tank. If you have bryopsis you don't have much choice.
I mentioned Vibrant or Algaefix (same thing). Kinda radical/nuclear. But chrysos are hard to solve for.

 

[bobssecrtsn]

If I wrote that I was drinking more than normal. Fluc has a singular purpose: Bryopsis algae. This is the ONLY reason to put it in your tank. If you have bryopsis you don't have much choice.
I mentioned Vibrant or Algaefix (same thing). Kinda radical/nuclear. But chrysos are hard to solve for.

Good thing I didn’t dose fluconazole.. I’m dosing that flocculant sunnyX made. I’ll be scrubbing every other day and dosing. Cross my fingers it works

 

[bishoptf]

I have the tank from hades and struggled with all kinds of stuff, ostreo was one of the worst but got a big ole UV and I think that has kicked them to the curb. Live rock I had brought bryposis so I treated with Fluc, second time but now I have chrsyo (what I think is chryso showing up) I suck it out and week later shows back up, its not terrible but I have a feeling that if I do nothing it will get worse etc...

Here are some pics.. @ScottB @taricha it looks like the above pics although my pics are not as good but wanted your thoughts

I read through Scotts threa, this is a nano tank and cannot house a foxface etc, I rather not dose vibrant/algaefix if I don't have to. Question is I still have the big ole UV going do I blow or suck it off, just feel like I am never going to be over this stuff, ugh...

 

[Troylee]

Have you tried dosing h202? I’m curious because I had something similar years ago and I thought it was Dino’s so I dozed h202 and it cured it within a week.. 1ml per 10 gallons of water.. I’m not sure what it was we weren’t using microscopes back then so I’ll never know! Lol

 

[bishoptf]

Have you tried dosing h202? I’m curious because I had something similar years ago and I thought it was Dino’s so I dozed h202 and it cured it within a week.. 1ml per 10 gallons of water.. I’m not sure what it was we weren’t using microscopes back then so I’ll never know! Lol

I think @ScottB had some in a beaker and tried a bunch of stuff including h202 and it did not have any reaction but I have couple months ago doing h202 for some other tank pests I can turn the h202 back on and see if it has any effect on it, not going to hurt to try.

 

[Troylee]

I think @ScottB had some in a beaker and tried a bunch of stuff including h202 and it did not have any reaction but I have couple months ago doing h202 for some other tank pests I can turn the h202 back on and see if it has any effect on it, not going to hurt to try.

Dose it daily for a week when the lights are off and see what happens… lights on it dissipates way to fast for any results.

 

[ScottB]

I have the tank from hades and struggled with all kinds of stuff, ostreo was one of the worst but got a big ole UV and I think that has kicked them to the curb. Live rock I had brought bryposis so I treated with Fluc, second time but now I have chrsyo (what I think is chryso showing up) I suck it out and week later shows back up, its not terrible but I have a feeling that if I do nothing it will get worse etc...

Here are some pics.. @ScottB @taricha it looks like the above pics although my pics are not as good but wanted your thoughts

I read through Scotts threa, this is a nano tank and cannot house a foxface etc, I rather not dose vibrant/algaefix if I don't have to. Question is I still have the big ole UV going do I blow or suck it off, just feel like I am never going to be over this stuff, ugh...

Hades indeed Tom. Sorry to hear. That certainly looks like chrysos. Very small and sessile? It kind of holds it's gelatinous shape when removed from water?

I did try H202 to no effect, but it shouldn't hurt to try it. I don't know what started in my tank, nore for sure what resolved it as I was pulling a couple levers at the same time. My best guess though is the evil Vibrant, as it is considered an algae.

 

[bishoptf]

Hades indeed Tom. Sorry to hear. That certainly looks like chrysos. Very small and sessile? It kind of holds it's gelatinous shape when removed from water?

I did try H202 to no effect, but it shouldn't hurt to try it. I don't know what started in my tank, nore for sure what resolved it as I was pulling a couple levers at the same time. My best guess though is the evil Vibrant, as it is considered an algae.

Yup holds its shape when sucked out and not moving. It's not terrible and smothering stuff but I'm afraid if I do nothing it would just keep getting worse, this tank really has been a royal PIA, lol. It's just small pockets here and there, sucked it out last week and saw it last night, feeds off the light from what I can see and each day gets a little worse.

On the bright side when looking through the scope I saw no dino's....lol.

 

[taricha]

Agreed that seen several cases of chrysophytes where algaefix (vibrant etc) was effective against it. Most other things, not seen convincing success.
But try h2o2 and share observations.

 

[bishoptf]

Agreed that seen several cases of chrysophytes where algaefix (vibrant etc) was effective against it. Most other things, not seen convincing success.
But try h2o2 and share observations.

Will do, I just when through couple months back heavy h202 dosing for parasites still have my doser set up and will just enable it again, I do not think it will have any impact but no harm in trying again, still have the big UV going also.

As a side note @taricha @ScottB I appreciate all the work you guys have put into and continue to help with the dino and related threads. I really hope that we can somehow continue to work on things and figure out what is the leading cause for all this stuff and what are the correct levers given the dino type etc. It's a major frustration for new reefers and even older reefers that have it happen. We always hear about diversity which I know plays some part but IMHO there is a lot more going on than just diversity, I had very high diversity verified by Aquabiomics edna reports and still had ostreo for months on end and now chryso...my diversity is still high bacteria wise. My thinking is that the tanks that cruise have maybe a higher count or have some strains that are lacking in other tanks, I am hoping that at some point we can connect the dots and then its just start with these bacteria types and you will do fine etc...really hopefully that as @AquaBiomics gathers more and more data that we can maybe figure something out vs just raising nutrients or doing the chicken dance etc...

I do have some vibrant but will add h202 to the mix and see if it makes any difference.

 

[bishoptf]

Since I had my doser already set up and based on the last dosing regimen (see humblefish forum for h202 dosing for parasites for more information, link below) I will go 4.4ml before lights, mid day, and after lights for one week, then go 7ml before lights, mid day and then after lights go off and will see if that makes any difference. This is basically 1ml per 8g week 1 and then 1ml per 5g for week 2, my tank is about 35g water volume. See here this link for more information, more for treating in tank parasites like ich and other stuff.

 

[Troylee]

Since I had my doser already set up and based on the last dosing regimen (see humblefish forum for h202 dosing for parasites for more information, link below) I will go 4.4ml before lights, mid day, and after lights for one week, then go 7ml before lights, mid day and then after lights go off and will see if that makes any difference. This is basically 1ml per 8g week 1 and then 1ml per 5g for week 2, my tank is about 35g water volume. See here this link for more information, more for treating in tank parasites like ich and other stuff.

Dose it at night when the lights are out… h202 is very light sensitive.. it just wiped out my Dino’s again and I’m happy as can be! I’ve been dosing mb7 and h202 and my battle with Dino’s are over! I think I over fed the tank with vodka but I will go back to vodka now that it all settled in..

 

[ScottB]

Will do, I just when through couple months back heavy h202 dosing for parasites still have my doser set up and will just enable it again, I do not think it will have any impact but no harm in trying again, still have the big UV going also.

As a side note @taricha @ScottB I appreciate all the work you guys have put into and continue to help with the dino and related threads. I really hope that we can somehow continue to work on things and figure out what is the leading cause for all this stuff and what are the correct levers given the dino type etc. It's a major frustration for new reefers and even older reefers that have it happen. We always hear about diversity which I know plays some part but IMHO there is a lot more going on than just diversity, I had very high diversity verified by Aquabiomics edna reports and still had ostreo for months on end and now chryso...my diversity is still high bacteria wise. My thinking is that the tanks that cruise have maybe a higher count or have some strains that are lacking in other tanks, I am hoping that at some point we can connect the dots and then its just start with these bacteria types and you will do fine etc...really hopefully that as @AquaBiomics gathers more and more data that we can maybe figure something out vs just raising nutrients or doing the chicken dance etc...

I do have some vibrant but will add h202 to the mix and see if it makes any difference.

First, thank you for the shout out. Next, sorry for your continued struggles. By my reading you have been going "by the book" as best we know it anyway.

Agree there is more to it than just bacterial diversity. Clearly, it has an important role to play, but it is (in my mind) an actor or precursor to the EFFECT we want. The effect we want is a healthy biome or even more specifically, a healthy set of surface competitors. Even more specific, a healthy set of aesthetically pleasing surface competitors. So anything other than turf algae, surplus GHA, cyano, dinoflagellates, or chrysophytes. I guess that leaves bacterial film, coralline, coral, or managed GHA via herbivores. Maybe diatoms are okay too. Who else am I forgetting?

So we manage water chemistry/nutrient to build up the good competitors at the expense of the bad ones. Quite the tightrope we walk here.

 

[bishoptf]

First, thank you for the shout out. Next, sorry for your continued struggles. By my reading you have been going "by the book" as best we know it anyway.

Agree there is more to it than just bacterial diversity. Clearly, it has an important role to play, but it is (in my mind) an actor or precursor to the EFFECT we want. The effect we want is a healthy biome or even more specifically, a healthy set of surface competitors. Even more specific, a healthy set of aesthetically pleasing surface competitors. So anything other than turf algae, surplus GHA, cyano, dinoflagellates, or chrysophytes. I guess that leaves bacterial film, coralline, coral, or managed GHA via herbivores. Maybe diatoms are okay too. Who else am I forgetting?

So we manage water chemistry/nutrient to build up the good competitors at the expense of the bad ones. Quite the tightrope we walk here.

Yeah I don't think I explained it how I meant it, I think it is bacteria related but there are so many different kinds that I think its an over abundance of certain strains that may be the culprit and there may be bacteria strains that reduce the chances if you have them in high numbers. My hope is that @AquaBiomics gets enough data that we can start to pull information out of the data, tanks that have no dino's etc have these top bacteria strains while those that struggle with Dinos' have these dominant strains...that is my hope then its just a matter of starting a tank and getting the good strains or adding them as needed...

I really think this all comes down to the microbes in our tank, I had high diversity in my tank according to the edna reports but maybe not the right strains to out compete Ostreo, if that makes sense.

I'm a glutton for punishment that I am about to set up another tank, going to do this much different so it will be interesting to see how it goes, all dry rock but have it going in buckets with live sand (ocean direct) and getting more live land from Florida and Aquabiomics and let all my rock run with a heater and powered head in my bucket. I think I know a little more this time so we will see how it goes...

 

[bishoptf]

Well a week of heavy h202 dosing and no real effect, again I do not have it really bad just pops up in several places and gets worse the longer I let it go. I can siphon it out and its back in a couple days, so I do not think h202 really does much for chrysophytes at least the ones that I have. Next up is vibrant, dose 1ml per 10g tonight, and yes I understand what is in it based on all the work @taricha did but I have read a couple of threads where it did possible have an effect. Not sure what kind of dosage @ScottB did and how often but my initial thought was to go weekly after water change and see if it has a different outcome. Trying to pull one lever at a time, so I am not doing to many things at once. I have a bunch of Halimeda macro algae and some feather caulpera in my sump, so I am hoping it doesn't kill all of my macro's but I guess we will see. I have pretty low nutrients, 8ppm Nitrate and .05 Po4 so I will have to keep an eye on them and dose to keep them where they are.....