The Name Game: Does Coral “Lineage” Matter?

[Reefer Matt]

Here’s another hypothetical. Say I get an awesome wild, unnamed coral. I then name it, grow it out, and sell a frag to a famous vendor. That vendor then grows it out and renames it to something much cooler, and charges triple. Who gets lineage in that case?

 

[PeterErc]

It’s all BS IMO. Nothing good came out of it, why not call them #1-5000. The number 1428 would be easier to remember than “ satans sweaty ball cheese”.

How do you know what you get is legit? Cause I said so?

If a retailer knew which mariculture corals were hot and could order them directly from the farmer would they only get 1?
Wouldn’t they order more to keep up with demand?
Captive raised, you bet lol.


Let’s call a spade a spade. I grow out some corals for the LFS. They give me a frag, I bring frags back and they give me credit. I say what ya got I need to grow out? They give me a frag of something with a name. I don’t remember what the name is. I see people on the street and can’t remember their name, let alone what I did a week ago.

I got a frag from Jimmy, who got a frag from Susie that got a frag from Bill who new a guy that had a cousin that saw a picture of a frag and his looks just like it, so mine is too, and I think it’s that one over there.

I’m done this is silly

 

[Reefing102]

Lineage matters to me with old school corals. But due to age, proving lineage is another story. If possible I try to buy corals from the original supplier, like ORA from ORA, Tyree from Tyree, etc.

New corals, I could care less about lineage. Every vendor has everyone else’s corals just renamed.

As for the hypothetical above, very few vendors advertise the lineage of their original frag unless they keep the name. Renaming and charging triple, lineage ends at the vendor. Keeping the name and selling for triple, lineage ends with you.

 

[KrisReef]

Here’s another hypothetical. Say I get an awesome wild, unnamed coral. I then name it, grow it out, and sell a frag to a famous vendor. That vendor then grows it out and renames it to something much cooler, and charges triple. Who gets lineage in that case?

That's not a case of lineage, but close. That is a case of LINE-age, where the famous get to charge more and claim ownership because they are selling a line more than they are selling a coral. It's an age-old problem and with DNA evaluation of living things now being available it may someday soon be a thing of the past with some vendors. They will provide independent test results, (like the baseball cards trade associations do) to validate their claims regarding the genetic make-up of their named frag-lines.

So sell what you can now before the technology raises the prices even more in order to clamp down on the-imitation coral trade.

I like to buy livestock in person but even then, the lights used over the displays can impact my ability to predict how nice or ugly a thing will look under my lights. I have noticed this same sales gimmick can be observed in clothing stores that are also experts at lighting their clothing sections with lights that make everything look better and the blue shirt looks brown in the sunlight outside.

Its the circle of sales life.

 

[cilyjr]

A colloquial name for a coral is needed and I find it pretty disingenuous for folks to claim otherwise

Why?

I when I sell and somebody asks about a fancy name, I say I don't know it's a
A. Tenuis or a tennie for short or A. Carduus you get the point. I mean if I happen to remember the fancy name that's great but I usually can't.

Do they need to colloquial names because we can't remember A. tenuis or A.millipora or A. carduus or A. Florida?

Or is there another reason you think this?

 

[PotatoPig]

I a bit of a newbie at corals, I just buy whatever looks pretty on the sale rack at the LFS…

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well, after asking about care, PAR, flow, aggression, etc.

 

[REEFRIED!]

I believe lineage matters.

 

[Opus]

Why?

I when I sell and somebody asks about a fancy name, I say I don't know it's a
A. Tenuis or a tennie for short or A. Carduus you get the point. I mean if I happen to remember the fancy name that's great but I usually can't.

Do they need to colloquial names because we can't remember A. tenuis or A.millipora or A. carduus or A. Florida?

Or is there another reason you think this?

I personally like it for corals that don't really change from one environment to the next. Many of the zoas I have look the same in any of my aquariums under various conditions. They might pale out in really low light but put them back in normal light I know exactly what they will look like when they color back up. Now if you are trying to get back to lineage then that is impossible and I hate when I see it being used to mark up a coral such as a zoa. I've seen a few people try to sell strats as an OG strat and charge double to triple the price when there is no way other than blind trust to prove it is an OG.

 

[Reefer Matt]

I’m not so sure that the term “lineage” can be agreed upon in the hobby, let alone be a standard of value for coral. It seems to only be a perceived value by Reefers, depending on who sold it.

 

[apb03]

I collect specific corals, I collect them like any other collector would for other collectibles. Boy, it would be nice if we all had a way to do this in a manner just like any other collection hobby community does...

 

[mrpontiac80]

I don’t care about lineage for the most part. I want the corals that I think look cool. Even the coral I do end up with… good luck getting me to tell you what it “is” because I forget almost immediately.

Having said that, if I like one that has a popular name, it’s nice to describe it as such so that I can find one like the Garf Bonsai rather than that purple one with green polyps, but that’s all I care about.

But all these names only seem to increase the cost. Guess what… that hellfire torch or NY Nicks torch that big name stores sell for hundreds of dollars, well my friend that imports coral has some that I personally could not tell you difference in his or theirs sells them for 1/10th the cost. I’m perfectly fine with his cause I just like the way it looks.

 

[Ernie Mccracken]

Not that long ago, it was uncommon to even remember all the species names in our own tanks.

But I recognize that lots of people care about the lineage more than anything. Ask any coral vendor how much harder it is to sell an unnamed unknown coral vs. "Mccracken Signature™ Purple Nurple Extreme Hippie Nipple Twister." Collecting all the lineages with the marketing names is the entire point. A whole new breed of coral collectors have taken up the hobby, like people who collect watches, sneakers, purses, etc.

And while all the marketing shenanigans are worth an occasional eye roll, hobbyists injecting hundreds of millions of dollars into the reef keeping economy is a huge net positive for everyone. So many hobbies are dying out as zoomers are mostly occupied by screens, social media, and working multiple jobs just to make rent - but reef keeping is still growing 10%-20%+ year over year. Room for everyone.

 

[bakbay]

Absolutely - lineage matters, a lot! We should have certificates of authenticity and/or RFIDs for corals.

I was told growing up that my bloodline traces back to royalty! However, my beloved parents lost their birth certificates and the royal emblem. So instead of having billions at my disposal and concubines wandering endlessly around my very own royal palace, I’m working 9-5, living paycheck to paycheck, and sharing my 2-bedroom apartment with a reef tank.

So yes - I do care about lineage!

 

[Reefer Matt]

Hypothetical: So if I can’t prove lineage, is it acceptable for me to name a coral whatever I want? After all, if I can’t call it by the trade name, what can I do?

 

[bakbay]

Hypothetical: So if I can’t prove lineage, is it acceptable for me to name a coral whatever I want? After all, if I can’t call it by the trade name, what can I do?

I think as long as you can find another sucker, ahem buyer, to buy your corals — you can name them whatever you like. I doubt that some big name coral farmers will hunt you down for “copyright infringement” lawsuits! Names are for easy reference vs saying “red tort, green base, with some hints of purple on the tip” (or whatever to describe species / colors / growth pattern / etc.

I’ve named my aiptasias with very colorful adult names but was reminded that this is a family-oriented forum!

 

[fish farmer]

Hypothetical: So if I can’t prove lineage, is it acceptable for me to name a coral whatever I want? After all, if I can’t call it by the trade name, what can I do?

Why can't you call it by the trade name? Is it trademarked? Does the coral have vendor/reef personality name attached to it? I see plenty of corals with whatever abbreviation (TSA,WWC,UC,CR) in front with either a color or cartoon character added to the base name be it zoa, disco or acro.

Here's a thought....bastardize the genus and species of said coral. Mesh Latin with zippy wording. Just like those impossible to pronounce drugs that are advertised on TV.

 

[Reefer Matt]

Why can't you call it by the trade name? Is it trademarked? Does the coral have vendor/reef personality name attached to it? I see plenty of corals with whatever abbreviation (TSA,WWC,UC,CR) in front with either a color or cartoon character added to the base name be it zoa, disco or acro.

Here's a thought....bastardize the genus and species of said coral. Mesh Latin with zippy wording. Just like those impossible to pronounce drugs that are advertised on TV.

I believe that’s what a lot of Reefers are referring to as lineage. You can’t sell a coral by it’s trade name if you don’t have proof of lineage. Yet, it’s also taboo to rename coral. So, I’m just (hypothetically) wondering what I’m supposed to do in that situation? (Not directed at you) Another view is that one purposely pays extra for the trade name, not just the coral. They are not always seen as animals, they are Beanie Babies.

 

[fish farmer]

I believe that’s what a lot of Reefers are referring to as lineage. You can’t sell a coral by it’s trade name if you don’t have proof of lineage. Yet, it’s also taboo to rename coral. So, I’m just (hypothetically) wondering what I’m supposed to do in that situation? (Not directed at you) Another view is that one purposely pays extra for the trade name, not just the coral. They are not always seen as animals, they are Beanie Babies.

"You can’t sell a coral by it’s trade name if you don’t have proof of lineage. Yet, it’s also taboo to rename coral."

Who's telling you this, just curious? Are you concerned you can't sell a "Jason Fox Day Glow Favites" because of his name....then drop the name, did he come up with the "Day Glow" part of it?

 

[Reefing102]

Hypothetical: So if I can’t prove lineage, is it acceptable for me to name a coral whatever I want? After all, if I can’t call it by the trade name, what can I do?

I’d say you can name it whatever you want or call it by the trade name but if you can’t prove lineage, just price it accordingly. Then if someone asks about lineage just be upfront with you don’t have it and that’s what you were told it was or whatever. Or as mentioned drop the vendor name and use the cartoon part only.

 

[Reefing102]

Or just start a Reefer Matt’s Renamed Corals business