This snake oil?

[daelie]

@DrTim
I noticed there is a Reef/Nano/Seahorse version of your products and also a Saltwater version of the products. What are the differences between the two lines?

 

[fermentedhiker]

@DrTim a side question not to derail the thread. I'm setting up a brackish tank(eventually) and am wondering if the fresh or saltwater "one and only" bacteria be more likely to be successful or would you use a smaller bottle of both?

 

[DrTim]

I thought bacteria replicate in minutes and can replicate exponentially, so even with heavy skimming surely they would be self sustaining with no need to replenish, once present in sufficient numbers.

In theory yes but eventually the bacteria run out of 'food' the growth slows and the population becomes not-sustainable. Bacteria blooms are occur with a skimmer because the bacteria are growing/replicating faster than the skimmer can remove them but unless you continue to 'feed' the bacteria this will not last.

 

[DrTim]

All bacteria aren’t created equal. Some reproduce fast, some slow.

It looks like these act like bacteria used in wastewater treatment plants.

Very cool!

The same ides but different species of bacteria.

 

[DrTim]

Should we take our carbon off line when using this product?

Activated carbon - no it can stay on-line.

 

[DrTim]

@DrTim
I noticed there is a Reef/Nano/Seahorse version of your products and also a Saltwater version of the products. What are the differences between the two lines?

There is no difference - some stores/customers who have reef system want a 'reef' labelled product.

 

[DrTim]

@DrTim a side question not to derail the thread. I'm setting up a brackish tank(eventually) and am wondering if the fresh or saltwater "one and only" bacteria be more likely to be successful or would you use a smaller bottle of both?

Brackish water - use the saltwater/reef version

 

[kchristensen8064]

Do you recommend a wet or dry skim while using the liquid form to kick start the process and also while using the gel?

 

[m0nkie]

@DrTim Is this product good for just removing nitrate/phosphate? no other issue with tank. I have a huge tank with a ton of unreachable spots. I feed heavy so nitrate/phosphate tend to build up. Wondering if this can slowly knock the nutrients off.

and based on recommended size I'd need 5 large packs. Should we go straight to recommended dosage or start with half?

 

[DrTim]

@DrTim Is this product good for just removing nitrate/phosphate? no other issue with tank. I have a huge tank with a ton of unreachable spots. I feed heavy so nitrate/phosphate tend to build up. Wondering if this can slowly knock the nutrients off.

and based on recommended size I'd need 5 large packs. Should we go straight to recommended dosage or start with half?

Not sure what you mean 'just removing nitrate/phosphate" - it will definitely lower both of those. But if you have a lot organics you might not see quick results because the bacteria will mineralize the organics producing ammonia which become nitrate (thru nitrification) and some phosphate. So initially you might see nitrate/phosphate increase. It all depends on how much organics have accumulated in the unreachable spots.

I would start with 1 or 2 large double pack (2-4 large gels). The gels will release the bacteria and if there is a significant amount of phosphate/nitrate they will feed on that and slowly (but measurably) reduce it. I am not a fan of quick changes in water quality (unless something is toxic).

You could also start with the liquid Waste-Away using 1/4 of the normal dose once you get to where you want to be start with the gels to maintain the phosphate and nitrate.

 

[DrTim]

Do you recommend a wet or dry skim while using the liquid form to kick start the process and also while using the gel?

Initially dry but if you get bloom go wet

 

[Rakie]

@DrTim -- A couple questions which are slightly off topic.

- I've noticed over the recent years there's a trend of using bacteria's for specific algae problems. Do you believe this is proper for most algae, or only for non algae (Cyano, Diatoms, Dinoflagelletes)

- Assuming you do think bacterial strains work for algaes, which bacteria products would you suggest for particular algaes?

Thank you for joining the forum!

 

[m0nkie]

Not sure what you mean 'just removing nitrate/phosphate" - it will definitely lower both of those. But if you have a lot organics you might not see quick results because the bacteria will mineralize the organics producing ammonia which become nitrate (thru nitrification) and some phosphate. So initially you might see nitrate/phosphate increase. It all depends on how much organics have accumulated in the unreachable spots.

I would start with 1 or 2 large double pack (2-4 large gels). The gels will release the bacteria and if there is a significant amount of phosphate/nitrate they will feed on that and slowly (but measurably) reduce it. I am not a fan of quick changes in water quality (unless something is toxic).

You could also start with the liquid Waste-Away using 1/4 of the normal dose once you get to where you want to be start with the gels to maintain the phosphate and nitrate.

thanks! I'll try 2 large double packs to start. My tank has no algae issue but nitrate/phosphate is steadily increasing due to overfeeding. have a ton of anthias. i could lower feeding but i like having fat round fish. so if this product can constantly lower nitrate/phosphate that would be great. ill need to find a balance between overfeeding and bacteria dosing

 

[srusso]

Generally no because they live in the water column and are removed by the skimmer or trapped in filter socks.

That is the idea - turn organics and nutrients into bacteria and remove the bacteria thereby removing the organics and nutrients.

Thank you so much for all of this, I going to give this a try. I have a small cyano/diatom issue growing in my young reef. Going lights out and Dr Tim's refresh with the steps you provided in the PDF. Thank you, I am going to share my results.

 

[DrTim]

@DrTim -- A couple questions which are slightly off topic.

- I've noticed over the recent years there's a trend of using bacteria's for specific algae problems. Do you believe this is proper for most algae, or only for non algae (Cyano, Diatoms, Dinoflagelletes)

- Assuming you do think bacterial strains work for algaes, which bacteria products would you suggest for particular algaes?

Thank you for joining the forum!

Thanks for the welcome.

All these organisms - algae, "non-algae", bacteria consume nutrients - carbon, nitrate and phosphate. They do it in different ways but it is more or less the same. The idea behind the use of bacteria is the bacteria consume nutrients and produce more bacteria which are then removed, mostly by the skimmer, thereby removing the nutrients. You get algae and non-algae because the system is out of balance - meaning you have removed, unintentionally, a major competitor to this nuisance organisms allowing them to take over.

The bacteria I recommend are, of course, mine - the Waste-Away. These were isolated from aquaria by me and will work - in some cases it takes more time and effort but they will work.

 

[TheHarold]

I can understand adding bacteria, but it seems odd to need to continually add the same bacteria forever. Once populated, I dont see the need to purchase them again. A skimmer may remove some, but the majority of bacteria are within our rockwork/sand/media and do not get removed via mechanical filtration.

 

[DrTim]

I can understand adding bacteria, but it seems odd to need to continually add the same bacteria forever. Once populated, I dont see the need to purchase them again. A skimmer may remove some, but the majority of bacteria are within our rockwork/sand/media and do not get removed via mechanical filtration.

Respectfully, how do you know that? Both Empirical experience and actual data show that is not the case.

 

[TheHarold]

Respectfully, how do you know that? Both Empirical experience and actual data show that is not the case.

Well I did not say “i know”, I said it seems odd. Because it clashes with the majority of my readings from journals etc.

Are you saying the majority of bacteria is waterborne? Back to the “live water” from LFS days?

What is the expiration/lifespan of these gel packed bacteria?

 

[hart24601]

Dr Tim will no doubt correct me, but I would suspect over time some bateria out competes others. So while you have diversity on rocks and sand initially over time a few species in our closed tiny systems, start to dominate the population. Now if that is ok or not is a larger conversation!

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

Respectfully, how do you know that? Both Empirical experience and actual data show that is not the case.

Thank you for joining us here. I am in the process of building my first reef tank, and soon i will begin cycling the tank. Having read your responses to the various questions has left me with questions of my own. I understand the gel product releases bacteria into the water column, where it goes to work on dead stuff, but where do the nitrifying bacteria live? Do they live in the porous rocks and filter media, or is that simply not the case?