Under dosing AFR

[Reefer911]

Is it possible to under dose AFR over the course of several months and STILL see a drop in calcium concentration?

Edit: what a dumb question lol

I’ve been dealing with poor looking corals for some time now and have done several things to try to remedy the problem.

My calcium has always been the 400s so I always figured my AFR dose was adequate. Last night I was watching a presentation by Lou Ekus where he mentioned the starting dose/gallon for AFR, and it kinda clicked with me at that moment in time.

Maybe my coral issues have to do with depleting trace elements due to under dosing AFR, and I’m talking about under dosing by about 66%.

I’ve been gauging water changes based on nutrient levels, and with carbon dosing, they have been fine, so not very frequent water changes.

Anyway I’m hopeful that things will take a turn for the better now that I’m at least at the starting point for dosing AFR.

 

[ryanjohn1]

What was your alk when you were dosing at that level?

 

[Reefer911]

Upper 9s-10ish.

I’m in the process of switching salts and have done 3 ~20% WC recently so the ALK is going down slowly. Yesterday it was ~8.5

 

[PBar]

Hello,
if you allow me, just small hints that could help:
-Easier to dose AFR based on the KH instead of calcium in my opinion. Basically because KH test is more straightforward to do it (less margin for error!)
-Very unlikely to have problems with corals due to low trace elements. Most of the cases, you can manage with kalkwasser and few water changes.
Much more likely that the problem is somewhere else… and in general, it is just because the tank is still “young”.


Best if you could give more details of what bothers you!
Cheers

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m confused. Of course underdosing AFR can result in reduced calcium and alk.

 

[Salty_Northerner]

Calcium can be checked shortly after adding AFR vs checking dkH which could take up to a few days as the bacteria consume the formate and converts it to alkalinity.

As for trace elements your water changes are taking care of that.

For me I'll use ESV 2 part to set the ca and ALK then dose AFR to maintain levels. You need to remember that your basically testing the past, upto 2 days for the levels to plateau. Myself I skip every other day with dosing and it's holding well at 8.5 and calcium 470.

 

[Reefer911]

Hello,
if you allow me, just small hints that could help:
-Easier to dose AFR based on the KH instead of calcium in my opinion. Basically because KH test is more straightforward to do it (less margin for error!)
-Very unlikely to have problems with corals due to low trace elements. Most of the cases, you can manage with kalkwasser and few water changes.
Much more likely that the problem is somewhere else… and in general, it is just because the tank is still “young”.


Best if you could give more details of what bothers you!
Cheers

Thanks but the AFR instruction chart takes into account Ca and ALK values. However when I initially set the AFR daily amount, I knew it was low as I was going the conservative route. Then I just assumed everything was ok due to Ca and ALK levels…I probably wasn’t doing it right.

The problem is that I have had a few corals that went through polyp bail out, including a torch that I had about 18 months. Also an acan and favia that I had a while bailed out. No major swings of anything that I know of, but I did change tanks and made a point to get the new tank parameters where the old tank’s were.

You might be right in that this may not be the issue but I can see a change for the better in that acan, and I increased my dosing not even 24 hours ago. This acan is one I’ve had a while, and it has only one polyp left.

 

[Reefer911]

I’m confused. Of course underdosing AFR can result in reduced calcium and alk.

Rereading my question sounds pretty dumb at this point but the drop took a while and never got super low, that I noticed. 395 was the lowest I saw.
I guess it’s that the decrease took so long (or my Ca level was good for so long) that I always thought the AFR was maintaining it, as TM claims.

But I guess the question was more of looking for confirmation of what I thought would be obvious in under dosing something.

 

[PizzaIan339]

Dose more or dose calcium maybe?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Rereading my question sounds pretty dumb at this point but the drop took a while and never got super low, that I noticed. 395 was the lowest I saw.
I guess it’s that the decrease took so long (or my Ca level was good for so long) that I always thought the AFR was maintaining it, as TM claims.

But I guess the question was more of looking for confirmation of what I thought would be obvious in under dosing something.

Calcium cannot drop far before alk is too low to allow continued consumption.

 

[Reefer911]

Calcium can be checked shortly after adding AFR vs checking dkH which could take up to a few days as the bacteria consume the formate and converts it to alkalinity.

As for trace elements your water changes are taking care of that.

For me I'll use ESV 2 part to set the ca and ALK then dose AFR to maintain levels. You need to remember that your basically testing the past, upto 2 days for the levels to plateau. Myself I skip every other day with dosing and it's holding well at 8.5 and calcium 470.

I recently increased my Ca with CaCO3 over the course of about 5 days, and I did see a small decrease in my ALK to about 8.3-8.5 or so, which that decrease was expected with the increase in Ca…but yeah my Ca is at 465 now, so we will see next weekend where it is. It was 475 right after the CaCO3 addition…the 465 was a week later

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I recently increased my Ca with CaCO3 over the course of about 5 days, and I did see a small decrease in my ALK to about 8.3-8.5 or so, which that decrease was expected with the increase in Ca…but yeah my Ca is at 465 now, so we will see next weekend where it is. It was 475 right after the CaCO3 addition…the 465 was a week later

You must have added something else, not calcium carbonate?

 

[Reefer911]

Calcium cannot drop far before alk is too low to allow continued consumption.

Are you saying I may have been at that point with the drop to 395?

 

[Reefer911]

You must have added something else, not calcium carbonate?

Yeah actually CaCl2

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Are you saying I may have been at that point with the drop to 395?

Certainly, depending on where alk and calcium started.

What is the alk now?

 

[Reefer911]

Certainly, depending on where alk and calcium started.

What is the alk now?

8.3-8.5 yesterday

 

[Reefer911]

My ALK was previously upper 9s-10 but coincidently, I’m in the process of changing salts. From Fritz high ALK (red box) to Nyos, so I thought the drop in ALK was due to that

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Those values are readily attained by underdosing AFR.

If you let me know what values you want to maintain, I can advise on reasonable ways to get there.

 

[Reefer911]

Alk in the mid 8s and Ca around 450 is good with me.

I have about 115 gallons actual volume and I’m now dosing 5mL/26g AFR

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Alk in the mid 8s and Ca around 450 is good with me.

I have about 115 gallons actual volume and I’m now dosing 5mL/26g AFR

I’d dose calcium chloride to 450 then dose AFR to maintain alk in the 8’s, which likely will take more than you are now.