Which Magnesium to use

[diver22]

@Randy I might have left out something, I'm also dosing kalk in ,y ATO is the DIY solution any different ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy I might have left out something, I'm also dosing kalk in ,y ATO is the DIY solution any different ?

Well, there's a slight recipe difference in the optimal magnesium supplement when used at the same time as a calcium chloride supplement method (that recipe has less chloride in it since the calcium part is adding so much), but at the end of the day, I doubt it matters much which recipe you use.

If you dose more alk and calcium via kalkwasser, I'd use the recipe I posted. if you dose more calcium and alk via a calcium chloride method, then use my recipe that is part of the 2/3 part DIY system.

 

[diver22]

Well, there's a slight recipe difference in the optimal magnesium supplement when used at the same time as a calcium chloride supplement method (that recipe has less chloride in it since the calcium part is adding so much), but at the end of the day, I doubt it matters much which recipe you use.

If you dose more alk and calcium via kalkwasser, I'd use the recipe I posted. if you dose more calcium and alk via a calcium chloride method, then use my recipe that is part of the 2/3 part DIY system.

Good morning Randy, first thank you for all your knowledge and helping the reef community, second the link has numerous options could you be a bit more specific on which one you recommend to use from you link.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Good morning Randy, first thank you for all your knowledge and helping the reef community, second the link has numerous options could you be a bit more specific on which one you recommend to use from you link.

Thanks.

The optimal recipe for folks using kalkwasser is detailed in post 25 above:

Which Magnesium to use

FWIW, I sent this request to Brightwell Technical Service this morning so we'll see if they finally fix the description: For many years now, you've had serious errors on your Magnesion P web site description, including the Guaranteed Analysis being way off. It simply cannot be 43% magnesium or...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[jsker]

Great Information again and thank you Randy

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Great Information again and thank you Randy

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing.

 

[diver22]

Raising he salinity to 35 ppt (sg = 1.0264) will boost magnesium from 1160 ppm (assuming that is accurate) to 1225 ppm. I see no reason to not do that as a first step.

Beyond that, boosting it to about 1300 ppm seems like a fine plan.

Randy, I did a water change as you suggested with Salinity at 1.026 and on the money it brought it up MAG to 1290, thank god you provide such great and accurate info.

Thank you, so much for all you do for us Reefer Community.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy, I did a water change as you suggested with Salinity at 1.026 and on the money it brought it up MAG to 1290, thank god you provide such great and accurate info.

Than so much for all you do for us Reefer Community.

Glad that worked out.

Thanks and Happy Reefing

 

[jimmypencil]

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing.

I use kalkwasser and just dosed 250ml of magnesium red see foundations. Is this bad?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I use kalkwasser and just dosed 250ml of magnesium red see foundations. Is this bad?

I don't have a reason to think that's any problem, unless you trued to put the magnesium directly into the kalkwasser.

 

[jimmypencil]

I don't have a reason to think that's any problem, unless you trued to put the magnesium directly into the kalkwasser.

Ok thanks, I was just making sure because you said your calcium and alkalinity source affects it. It’s a 50 gallon system that I use 200ml of kalkwasser daily, my kh consumption is .1-.2 a day. Alkalinity is stable at 8.5. Tested magnesium today for the first time in two weeks and it was 1140. It was 1320 14 days ago. Only difference is I added some corals including hammers and leathers, small frags but maybe they are absorbing a good bit of magnesium? Based on what you said in this thread about magnesium I can’t make sense of my situation lol.

 

[jimmypencil]

Ok thanks, I was just making sure because you said your calcium and alkalinity source affects it. It’s a 50 gallon system that I use 200ml of kalkwasser daily, my kh consumption is .1-.2 a day. Alkalinity is stable at 8.5. Tested magnesium today for the first time in two weeks and it was 1140. It was 1320 14 days ago. Only difference is I added some corals including hammers and leathers, small frags but maybe they are absorbing a good bit of magnesium? Based on what you said in this thread about magnesium I can’t make sense of my situation lol.

Well I just read a lot of your reply’s about magnesium so I guess the only explanation is test error lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ok thanks, I was just making sure because you said your calcium and alkalinity source affects it.

It does, that is correct.
Are you asking about Foundation C, or a different product? I am not sure how Foundation C is formulated since Red Sea does not say.

ested magnesium today for the first time in two weeks and it was 1140. It was 1320 14 days ago.

That is test error. Magnesium is never depleted more than about 1/10th of the calcium depletion rate, and is rarely more than 1 ppm per day.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well I just read a lot of your reply’s about magnesium so I guess the only explanation is test error lol

lol yes

 

[jimmypencil]

It does, that is correct.
Are you asking about Foundation C, or a different product? I am not sure how Foundation C is formulated since Red Sea does not say.



That is test error. Magnesium is never depleted more than about 1/10th of the calcium depletion rate, and is rarely more than 1 ppm per day.

Yea it’s foundation c. Thanks for reply, I will retest tmrw lol.

 

[AquaLogic]

What will you be using it for and how are you dosing calcium and alkalinty?

(the answer matters)

What would be best if using ESV b-ionic for dosing calc and alk? The ESV magnesium?

I want to raise mine slightly because I suspect my hammer would like more mag than my Nyos salt is providing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What would be best if using ESV b-ionic for dosing calc and alk? The ESV magnesium?

I want to raise mine slightly because I suspect my hammer would like more mag than my Nyos salt is providing.

My 10:1 diy is good, as are most magnesium supplements. The ESV B-ionic is properly balanced, so one does not need the mag dosing to fix that.

 

[AquaLogic]

My 10:1 diy is good, as are most magnesium supplements. The ESV B-ionic is properly balanced, so one does not need the mag dosing to fix that.

Thank you! I will look into your DIY recipes after my b-ionic is used up. Out of curiosity ( I like to learn), why does ESV offer a mag supplement if the 2 part is already addressing mag? In what situation would you need the mag supplement as well?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you! I will look into your DIY recipes after my b-ionic is used up. Out of curiosity ( I like to learn), why does ESV offer a mag supplement if the 2 part is already addressing mag? In what situation would you need the mag supplement as well?

There are different ways to design two/three part systems.

One way, taken by ESV in B-ionic and by Tropic Marin in 3 part Balling, is to add all elements such that when the calcium and alkalinity are consumed, all that remains is an exact seawater composition of ions, which naturally contains a lot of magnesium. But if you want to offset any amount of consumption of iron, manganese, magnesium, or whatever, you need to address that separately (water changes, foods, or supplements)..

The second way, taken by my 3 part DIY and presumably some commercial supplements is to add enough magnesium to offset the seawater composition issue mentioned above, PLUS the magnesium being consumed by organisms. So my recipe will contain much more magnesium than ESV or TM Balling, and I detail how much each of those contributes to the recipe (see below).

That is not to say that my recipe is better, because it lacks many of the other elements that TM Balling and ESV provide. It is just a different approach designed to be less expensive.

An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Residual Ions from the Calcium and Alkalinity Parts

Adding 1 gallon of each of these additives will result in a residue of ions remaining after calcification. These are mostly sodium and chloride, and the amounts of those two added are equal in numbers (i.e., moles), but slightly different in weight-based concentrations such as ppm because they do not weigh the same.

After adding 594 grams of baking soda (1 gallon of Recipe #1), we will have added 163 grams of sodium. In natural seawater, magnesium is present at about 12.0% of the sodium concentration (by weight). In order to match the magnesium additions to the sodium additions to leave them in a natural ratio, we need to add 12% of 163 grams, or 19.5 grams, of magnesium for every gallon of the two-part additive that we add.

Additionally, we may want to account for magnesium that is actually incorporated into the coral skeletons. For this calculation, I have assumed that the amount of magnesium incorporated is about 6.5% of the calcium level (by weight), or about 2.5% of the skeleton by weight. In the course of adding this gallon of both parts of the two part supplement, we added 141 grams of calcium, so we need to add 0.065 x 141 = 9 grams of magnesium to account for this deposition.

The magnesium parts of the recipe are designed to add enough magnesium so that it is not depleted by either of the two means described above. Because the magnesium supplement (either version) is 47,000 mg/L in magnesium, we need to add (9 +19.5) grams/47 g/L = 610 ml of the magnesium solution for each gallon of the other parts of Recipe #1.

 

[AquaLogic]

There are different ways to design two/three part systems.

One way, taken by ESV in B-ionic and by Tropic Marin in 3 part Balling, is to add all elements such that when the calcium and alkalinity are consumed, all that remains is an exact seawater composition of ions, which naturally contains a lot of magnesium. But if you want to offset any amount of consumption of iron, manganese, magnesium, or whatever, you need to address that separately (water changes, foods, or supplements)..

The second way, taken by my 3 part DIY and presumably some commercial supplements is to add enough magnesium to offset the seawater composition issue mentioned above, PLUS the magnesium being consumed by organisms. So my recipe will contain much more magnesium than ESV or TM Balling, and I detail how much each of those contributes to the recipe (see below).

That is not to say that my recipe is better, because it lacks many of the other elements that TM Balling and ESV provide. It is just a different approach designed to be less expensive.

An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Residual Ions from the Calcium and Alkalinity Parts

Adding 1 gallon of each of these additives will result in a residue of ions remaining after calcification. These are mostly sodium and chloride, and the amounts of those two added are equal in numbers (i.e., moles), but slightly different in weight-based concentrations such as ppm because they do not weigh the same.

After adding 594 grams of baking soda (1 gallon of Recipe #1), we will have added 163 grams of sodium. In natural seawater, magnesium is present at about 12.0% of the sodium concentration (by weight). In order to match the magnesium additions to the sodium additions to leave them in a natural ratio, we need to add 12% of 163 grams, or 19.5 grams, of magnesium for every gallon of the two-part additive that we add.

Additionally, we may want to account for magnesium that is actually incorporated into the coral skeletons. For this calculation, I have assumed that the amount of magnesium incorporated is about 6.5% of the calcium level (by weight), or about 2.5% of the skeleton by weight. In the course of adding this gallon of both parts of the two part supplement, we added 141 grams of calcium, so we need to add 0.065 x 141 = 9 grams of magnesium to account for this deposition.

The magnesium parts of the recipe are designed to add enough magnesium so that it is not depleted by either of the two means described above. Because the magnesium supplement (either version) is 47,000 mg/L in magnesium, we need to add (9 +19.5) grams/47 g/L = 610 ml of the magnesium solution for each gallon of the other parts of Recipe #1.

Thank your for the explanation!