michaelrc51
Active Member
I would not get rid of the GFCI.
What else is on that circuit?
What else is plugged into that outlet?
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I would not get rid of the GFCI.
What else is on that circuit?
What else is plugged into that outlet?
michaelrc51
Active Member
No, everything should be. Since all of our aquariums and equipment are in contact or very close proximity of the circuit it should be protected by a GFCI outlet and /or a GFCI breaker on that circuit.
Many people don't like to put their return pump on a GFCI because if it nuisance trips while they are not there, that can be really bad. But if it nuisance trips that probably means your GFCI is not the right kind or you have something else (like a HID/FL ballast) that is on the same circuit that triggered the trip.
Joshky
Well-Known Member
I just moved into a new house my parents just built and 2 of our breakers in this house keep tripping for no reason, our electrician came by last week and tightened some screws because he said it might be loose screws causing it to arc. The dude says it's the new breaker boxes they have to install causing them to trip, and that my tank is to blame when it's only using 6/15 amps on my personal breaker. Any insight as to what I can say or do to get this resolved?
michaelrc51
Active Member
Nuisance trip?
If everything is installed and wired correctly and the load calculation is correct you should not have anything tripping.
I know people don't like them cause they do eventually fail but there are ways to ensure safety and reliability but it is usually a bit more work and money than what people are looking to hear.
michaelrc51
Active Member
You won't be able to get an answer of the Internet.
If those are the electrician's words that would scare me. I would ask him for a more technical explanation.
I would start by trying to find the exact cause and then go to each device in that circuit and inspect them and the wiring.
What kind of breakers are they?
I am guessing one of the circuits is for your tank?
Yes. I had a fluorescent T5Ho ballast kick off a GFCI once in an office, it was on the same cct as the pump so the tank went w/o flow for 13 hours. The timer on the light (reverse cycle) was right at the turn-on position, and it worked fine for over a year but one day it turned on at just the wrong time in the sine wave and pop. It's never tripped again. That's the definition of a nuisance trip IMO
michaelrc51
Active Member
Kind of hard to judge a problem like that, there are a lot of things to consider. Also, I'm sure those aren't the only 2 things on that circuit....?
GFCI do eventually fail, they don't last forever. They are there to protect you.
Here is something to keep in mind. With any device the initial startup causes a very quick rush of current which then drops to the normal current used for operation. Lots of times circuits can be overloaded and nothing happen until you get that one time when multiple devices start at the same time causing a spike which could trip a very sensitive GFCI device.
When I say overloaded I mean over 80% of the total rated current.
I'm not saying that is your problem but it could be. There are lots of possible issues but generally GFCIs don't just trip for no reason unless they are going bad.
They were the only 2 things on that GFCI. It's not an issue anymore as I switched the light to LED anyways.
michaelrc51
Active Member
GFCI or circuit?
Joshky
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry those probably aren't the exact words of the electrician, he came by while I was at work and my dad spoke with him. I don't think he's a very good electrician, we have/had a lot of issues during the house build but he's under warranty so I don't see my parents looking elsewhere right now. My tank is in my bedroom and the only other room connected is my bathroom.
Just the GFCI. The other things on the circuit would be the DT lights (which may have been on, but I don't think they were) and the heater (which may or may not have been on) and the pump is a Reeflo Dart/Snapper hybrid. Probably an ATO also (Tom Aqua Lifter)
michaelrc51
Active Member
No way of really knowing for sure.
You could do a load calculation on all those devices to check but I'm not going to go into researching all of the loads of those devices to see.
The LEDs draw considerably less and also start up is managed to a lot less than T5s so the issue could've been a circuit that has to much load on it. To determine that you'll need to know if it was a 15 or 20 amp circuit as well.
When you plug devices into a circuit you are trusting that everything is installed correctly and wired/tested properly. A number of things in a circuit could cause issues.
If you do major installs I would definitely put something in your contracts about the circuits provided by the customer or an electrician. Of course that would also make the installer be aware of the requirements and devise a wiring riser based upon the load calls.
Personally, I am still preparing to setup my tank when we found the house we want but I can tell you it will have 2 or even possibly 3 dedicated 20amp circuits on GFCI breakers. I am going to run 2 return pumps each on separate circuits so if 1 has an issue the other pump will ramp up and account for the other one. Now, this is going to cost me a considerable amount of more $$$ but it should greatly affect the % that something power related will take down my whole tank.
aslmx
Valuable Member
Any way to feed your tank off of extension cords on another circuit to see if it does the same thing? I pull everything off of 1 - 20 amp breaker and with everything running including 2- 250 halides I only pull 13.5 amps on a clamp meter. Sometimes the amp draw on the labels aren't realistic. Imo
michaelrc51
Active Member
Yeah, but the problem is the start up. A MH probably has a hefty start up rush of current. The labels have to be written for maximum consumption. This is why it might say 3amps but at normal on might only be 1 amp draw.
This is a big issue, you have to rate everything at 80% load on the circuit at maximum consumption rates cause you never know when multiple things could turn on at the same time.
Common issue is people under rating the load on a circuit.
aslmx
Valuable Member
This is true but usually unlikely with new electronic ballasts that ramp the bulbs up like a Galaxy. Even if my set up spiked another 3 amps that would put me around 16 amps which is in range of the 80%.
SteveSTL
Active Member
If it's a bedroom, it most likely has an arc-fault breaker which are very twitchy. Any large initial surge is going to trip it. They're code now in a lot of places but do have their problems.
michaelrc51
Active Member
You are talking about one device. If something else has a similar affect at the same time that could be your answer. Without going through each device in the circuit including receptacles there isn't really a way to know.
dbrewsky
Active Member
OK, I wanted to run a few ideas past the experts before trying to complete my electrical project.
First- it appears the the circuit my aquarium is on uses a 15 amp breaker, however it looks like the 3 outlets on the circuit are being fed by romex 12/2. This circuit also serves a switch and two small ceiling light fixtures. Will I be able to simply switch the 15 amp breaker for a 20 amp breaker? Do I need to confirm if the switch and light fixtures are also being fed by 12/2? The code was a little confusing on this. IN THEORY> if the complete circuit is being completed by 12/2 there should be no reason not to swap the breaker for 20 amp correct?
Second- the outlets that will feed the tank are on a wall skinned with very tight tolerances to the concrete foundation wall. A slim blue outlet box barely fits and despite my efforts to try and clean up the wiring in the box, I cant get my GFCI outlets to fit. I am thinking at this time that I want to run at least two outlets feeding the aquarium on independently wired gfcis in case I get nuisance trips that the whole tank doesn't loose power. Does anyone have an idea on how to increase my working space so I can install the GFCI protected outlets?
Im thinking at this time the only way to do this would be to pull the romex through the outlet into an outdoor gang box and wire the outlets inside this box and caulk the box to the wall. Thought, opinions? I appreciate you all, thank you for helping out with this thread
.
First- it appears the the circuit my aquarium is on uses a 15 amp breaker, however it looks like the 3 outlets on the circuit are being fed by romex 12/2. This circuit also serves a switch and two small ceiling light fixtures. Will I be able to simply switch the 15 amp breaker for a 20 amp breaker? Do I need to confirm if the switch and light fixtures are also being fed by 12/2? The code was a little confusing on this. IN THEORY> if the complete circuit is being completed by 12/2 there should be no reason not to swap the breaker for 20 amp correct?
Second- the outlets that will feed the tank are on a wall skinned with very tight tolerances to the concrete foundation wall. A slim blue outlet box barely fits and despite my efforts to try and clean up the wiring in the box, I cant get my GFCI outlets to fit. I am thinking at this time that I want to run at least two outlets feeding the aquarium on independently wired gfcis in case I get nuisance trips that the whole tank doesn't loose power. Does anyone have an idea on how to increase my working space so I can install the GFCI protected outlets?
Im thinking at this time the only way to do this would be to pull the romex through the outlet into an outdoor gang box and wire the outlets inside this box and caulk the box to the wall. Thought, opinions? I appreciate you all, thank you for helping out with this thread
.
SteveSTL
Active Member
As long as ALL of the wire is 12/2 you can switch it to a 20 amp breaker. The breaker is there to protect the wires - not the stuff plugged into them. If any of it is 14, you have to stick with the 15 amp breaker.
As far as the outlets - if both GFCI are on one circuit, you only need one GFCI - the one upstream. Anything downstream of it will be protected. If you want to add a second circuit, then you can put a GFCI on it.
As far as making the box deeper you have a few options - remove the box, chisel out some concrete and then replace with a 2 gang box to get four outlets in. Replaster and it will look like it belongs. You could also put on a box extender and then trim around it but that looks kind of redneck. The third would be to surface mount a double box but you're headed back to redneckville. Of course if it's always going to be hidden, not such a bad solution. You can always replace the outlet if you move or take down the tank.
As far as the outlets - if both GFCI are on one circuit, you only need one GFCI - the one upstream. Anything downstream of it will be protected. If you want to add a second circuit, then you can put a GFCI on it.
As far as making the box deeper you have a few options - remove the box, chisel out some concrete and then replace with a 2 gang box to get four outlets in. Replaster and it will look like it belongs. You could also put on a box extender and then trim around it but that looks kind of redneck. The third would be to surface mount a double box but you're headed back to redneckville. Of course if it's always going to be hidden, not such a bad solution. You can always replace the outlet if you move or take down the tank.
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