Zebra Lion Eye Outer Layer Deteriorating

amarr104 · May 17, 2023

Hi guys, I’m hoping some of you can give me some good advice here!
I have a 90 gallon and I recently added a zebra lion. At the store his left eye was a little cloudy and they told me they’ve had him for a couple months no problems. I should have quarantined him but I didn’t. Two weeks after adding him to the display my whole tank came down with velvet and it was really bad. I also had ich as well. I removed all my inverts and dosed the tank with coppersafe and have been monitoring with the Hanna copper checker daily sometimes even twice a day. I’m well aware of the dangers of treating in the display. The whole time I had the lion these past few weeks he’s been eating frozen krill and shrimp heavily soaked in vitamins and for a moment his eye started getting better but then it started getting cloudy again and now it looks like he is missing the outer layer of his left eye (cornea?) and it is completely cloudy. He also has stopped eating a couple days ago and it seems like he wants to eat because he’ll swim upwards to the food but doesn’t open his mouth or anything. My other fish in the tank get very excited over food so I’m not sure if he’s shying away because of the chaos or if it’s the copper (I know lions can be sensitive to copper) or if it’s eye bugging him or a mixture of everything. The velvet seems to have cleared up and they’ve been in the copper for about 2 weeks now. Im wondering if you guys think I should remove the lion from the copper and put him in a 20 gallon hospital tank and treat it like a bacterial infection while I finish treatment in the display? He’s about 4 inches and I don’t want to stress him out more by moving him around. Ammonia: 0 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate:30-50 ppm. All my other fish are doing great and look great so I’m wondering if the eye is a bacterial infection from the store that just worsened with the velvet outbreak/copper. I will try to attach some pictures so you can see. Thanks!

fishguy242 · May 17, 2023

#fishmedic

vetteguy53081 · May 17, 2023

amarr104 said:
Hi guys, I’m hoping some of you can give me some good advice here!
I have a 90 gallon and I recently added a zebra lion. At the store his left eye was a little cloudy and they told me they’ve had him for a couple months no problems. I should have quarantined him but I didn’t. Two weeks after adding him to the display my whole tank came down with velvet and it was really bad. I also had ich as well. I removed all my inverts and dosed the tank with coppersafe and have been monitoring with the Hanna copper checker daily sometimes even twice a day. I’m well aware of the dangers of treating in the display. The whole time I had the lion these past few weeks he’s been eating frozen krill and shrimp heavily soaked in vitamins and for a moment his eye started getting better but then it started getting cloudy again and now it looks like he is missing the outer layer of his left eye (cornea?) and it is completely cloudy. He also has stopped eating a couple days ago and it seems like he wants to eat because he’ll swim upwards to the food but doesn’t open his mouth or anything. My other fish in the tank get very excited over food so I’m not sure if he’s shying away because of the chaos or if it’s the copper (I know lions can be sensitive to copper) or if it’s eye bugging him or a mixture of everything. The velvet seems to have cleared up and they’ve been in the copper for about 2 weeks now. Im wondering if you guys think I should remove the lion from the copper and put him in a 20 gallon hospital tank and treat it like a bacterial infection while I finish treatment in the display? He’s about 4 inches and I don’t want to stress him out more by moving him around. Ammonia: 0 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate:30-50 ppm. All my other fish are doing great and look great so I’m wondering if the eye is a bacterial infection from the store that just worsened with the velvet outbreak/copper. I will try to attach some pictures so you can see. Thanks!

Unfortunately this appears to be retina damage and a result as you may have guessed from non-treatment which would have been ethromyacin. The lion can function with the one eye damaged as ive had and have seen fish thrive with one eye damaged and still live a normal ability to eat and thrive.
You can still try treatment but it will likely do no good.
Lions dont fare well at times with copper and should be treated in a separate setting/QT with general cure opposed to copper with added aeration and ammonia levels monitored with a reliable ammonia test kit

amarr104 · May 17, 2023

vetteguy53081 said:
Unfortunately this appears to be retina damage and a result as you may have guessed from non-treatment which would have been ethromyacin. The lion can function with the one eye damaged as ive had and have seen fish thrive with one eye damaged and still live a normal ability to eat and thrive.
You can still try treatment but it will likely do no good.
Lions dont fare well at times with copper and should be treated in a separate setting/QT with general cure opposed to copper with added aeration and ammonia levels monitored with a reliable ammonia test kit

amarr104 · May 17, 2023

Okay thank you for your fast response I’ll move him into a separate tank tonight after work so he is no longer in copper. He’s 4 inches do you think he’ll be okay in a 20 gallon for a couple months until I get the display disease free?

vetteguy53081 · May 17, 2023

amarr104 said:
Okay thank you for your fast response I’ll move him into a separate tank tonight after work so he is no longer in copper. He’s 4 inches do you think he’ll be okay in a 20 gallon for a couple months until I get the display disease free?

At 4" for treatment/temporary housing- Yes
As for feeding, try introducing food to him with feeding tongs

nereefpat · May 17, 2023

Welcome to R2R!

amarr104 said:
The velvet seems to have cleared up and they’ve been in the copper for about 2 weeks now. Im wondering if you guys think I should remove the lion from the copper and put him in a 20 gallon hospital tank and treat it like a bacterial infection while I finish treatment in the display?

I like that idea. If you are treating with Copper Safe, after 2 full weeks at therapeutic copper level (2.0+ ppm), you can move the lion to a new 'sterile' (for sure, no ich/velvet) tank for the remainder of the display's fallow period.

You could then use antibiotics if you think they are needed. You could also feed more tempting live foods, if you can't get it to keep eating: ghost shrimp, guppies, etc.

Jay Hemdal · May 17, 2023

Seems like the eye's globe is deflated, and it isn't just a surface issue. Copper doesn't do that, more likely it was a physical injury. +1 on moving it to a sterile tank (manage the ammonia though!) and trying to tong feed it (wait until the day after you move it though).

Here is a general primer I wrote on fish eye health:

Aquarium Fish: The ‘Eyes’ Have it: A Review of Eye Health in Aquarium Fishes

Aquarists need to inspect their fish closely every day, for signs of impending health problems. It is much easier to resolve a problem when it first starts, than to attempt a drastic emergency treatment when the fish is close to dying.

reefs.com

Jay

amarr104 · May 17, 2023

Okay thank you for your fast response I’ll move him into a separate tank tonight after work so he is no longer in copper. He’s 4 inches do you think he’ll be okay in a 20 gallon is for a couple months?

nereefpat said:
Welcome to R2R!

I like that idea. If you are treating with Copper Safe, after 2 full weeks at therapeutic copper level (2.0+ ppm), you can move the lion to a new 'sterile' (for sure, no ich/velvet) tank for the remainder of the display's fallow period.

You could then use antibiotics if you think they are needed. You could also feed more tempting live foods, if you can't get it to keep eating: ghost shrimp, guppies, etc.

I thought for coppersafe the therapeutic level was 1.5-2.0. Is this no longer the case? My copper level has been hovering around 1.75 the last two weeks. There’s no more sign of velvet on anybody but my hippo tang has a spot or two of ich still that appeared a couple days ago.

Jay Hemdal · May 17, 2023

amarr104 said:
Okay thank you for your fast response I’ll move him into a separate tank tonight after work so he is no longer in copper. He’s 4 inches do you think he’ll be okay in a 20 gallon is for a couple months?

I thought for coppersafe the therapeutic level was 1.5-2.0. Is this no longer the case? My copper level has been hovering around 1.75 the last two weeks. There’s no more sign of velvet on anybody but my hippo tang has a spot or two of ich still that appeared a couple days ago.

Coppersafe tests out at 2.5 ppm if you dose according to the label instructions (5 ml per 4 gallons). Therapeutic range for this product is 2 to 2.5 ppm

Jay

Cell · May 17, 2023

@lion king probably has some good feeding tips for you.

amarr104 · May 17, 2023

Jay Hemdal said:
Coppersafe tests out at 2.5 ppm if you dose according to the label instructions (5 ml per 4 gallons). Therapeutic range for this product is 2 to 2.5 ppm

Jay

Thank you, good to know. I thought the max was 2.0. I will raise the copper level to this range after I take the lion out.

nereefpat · May 17, 2023

I wouldn't go lower than 1.75. If it dropped below that, I would start the clock over. That said, I haven't personally used copper on a lion.

amarr104 · May 17, 2023

nereefpat said:
I wouldn't go lower than 1.75. If it dropped below that, I would start the clock over. That said, I haven't personally used copper on a lion.

Thank you for the advice. I will remove the lion and treat in the 20 gallon separately and raise the copper level in the display to 2.0-2.5 and restart the clock.