Can I employ multiple methods of Nitrate removal?

[jasonrusso]

I am going to try to lower the nitrates in my 210 fowler. They are probably around 100. (PO4 is 3+) I can't get a definitive answer if that is harmful or not, but I don't think that long term it will be good for the fish.

So, I don't have the means for a fuge, but I have a couple reactors. So what I am doing it dosing NOPOX (I have a big Reef Octopus Diablo XS 200), running biopellets in a BRS reactor, and filled up a TLS Phosban 550 with Seachem Matrix running about 38 gallons an hour (50 gallons or less for Denitrifying effect).

Is this setup going to be ok? As the nitrates come down, I'll decrease the NOPOX (I bought a 5L jug a while back and I'll make my own after it's gone) dose, but the biopellets and Matrix should be self regulating.

 

[Justfebreezeit]

It shouldn't be a problem in a FOWLR, the only problem I can foresee with a Reef would be reduction of it to fast. With fish I dont see that being a problem.

 

[Dan_P]

I am going to try to lower the nitrates in my 210 fowler. They are probably around 100. (PO4 is 3+) I can't get a definitive answer if that is harmful or not, but I don't think that long term it will be good for the fish.

So, I don't have the means for a fuge, but I have a couple reactors. So what I am doing it dosing NOPOX (I have a big Reef Octopus Diablo XS 200), running biopellets in a BRS reactor, and filled up a TLS Phosban 550 with Seachem Matrix running about 38 gallons an hour (50 gallons or less for Denitrifying effect).

Is this setup going to be ok? As the nitrates come down, I'll decrease the NOPOX (I bought a 5L jug a while back and I'll make my own after it's gone) dose, but the biopellets and Matrix should be self regulating.

Nitrate consumption needs a certain amount of PO4. I would consider establishing a good nitrate consumption rate before you start removing the PO4. I do not know the amount of PO4 needed to remove 100 ppm of nitrate because in some small scale tests I have run there were instances where PO4 was rapidly consumed with little or no NO3 reduction. I would guess 3+ ppm PO4 is more than needed but if you can wait, delay PO4.

If you have been maintaining the system's alkalinity, you will notice alkalinity rising or consumption rate decrease as NO3 is removed.

 

[SeaDweller]

Nitrate consumption needs a certain amount of PO4. I would consider establishing a good nitrate consumption rate before you start removing the PO4. I do not know the amount of PO4 needed to remove 100 ppm of nitrate because in some small scale tests I have run there were instances where PO4 was rapidly consumed with little or no NO3 reduction. I would guess 3+ ppm PO4 is more than needed but if you can wait, delay PO4.

If you have been maintaining the system's alkalinity, you will notice alkalinity rising or consumption rate decrease as NO3 is removed.

I’m in the same boat as OP, large water changes have had the best effect on going from 200+ ppm no3 down to 25 ppm (120 gallons at a time). My sulfur denitator has finally broken in during this time too. So really, it’s just to hopefully maintain a lower level if needed, maybe taken offline if I don’t need it. But I’m glad you mention PO4 as I’m battling that with LaCl too, mine were probably just as high but I got them down to 1.0 as of this am.

OP, if I were you, I’d do some really large water changes to quickly bring down the no3 if you need it that fast. I changed out about 400 gallons in 1.5 weeks and I can’t believe how much it’s helped the overall health and appearance of everything.

 

[jasonrusso]

I’m in the same boat as OP, large water changes have had the best effect on going from 200+ ppm no3 down to 25 ppm (120 gallons at a time). My sulfur denitator has finally broken in during this time too. So really, it’s just to hopefully maintain a lower level if needed, maybe taken offline if I don’t need it. But I’m glad you mention PO4 as I’m battling that with LaCl too, mine were probably just as high but I got them down to 1.0 as of this am.

OP, if I were you, I’d do some really large water changes to quickly bring down the no3 if you need it that fast. I changed out about 400 gallons in 1.5 weeks and I can’t believe how much it’s helped the overall health and appearance of everything.

Which denitrator?

I can't perform water changes that large.

 

[SeaDweller]

Which denitrator?

I can't perform water changes that large.

I'm using an aquamaxx.

I did 50% of my volume.

 

[jasonrusso]

I'm using an aquamaxx.

I did 50% of my volume.

Does the denitrator require any maintenance? How long does the media last?

 

[SeaDweller]

Does the denitrator require any maintenance? How long does the media last?

I think once a year or two cleaning. The media lasts as long as there is NO3 available for the bacteria to consume. After that they eat the sulfur beads and then that will deplete it. But all I've read it lasts years

 

[jasonrusso]

I think once a year or two cleaning. The media lasts as long as there is NO3 available for the bacteria to consume. After that they eat the sulfur beads and then that will deplete it. But all I've read it lasts years

Which model? TS-1? You said a 210 tank?

 

[Pntbll687]

I am going to try to lower the nitrates in my 210 fowler. They are probably around 100. (PO4 is 3+) I can't get a definitive answer if that is harmful or not, but I don't think that long term it will be good for the fish.

So, I don't have the means for a fuge, but I have a couple reactors. So what I am doing it dosing NOPOX (I have a big Reef Octopus Diablo XS 200), running biopellets in a BRS reactor, and filled up a TLS Phosban 550 with Seachem Matrix running about 38 gallons an hour (50 gallons or less for Denitrifying effect).

Is this setup going to be ok? As the nitrates come down, I'll decrease the NOPOX (I bought a 5L jug a while back and I'll make my own after it's gone) dose, but the biopellets and Matrix should be self regulating.

One of the major drawbacks to running multiple nitrate removal at a time is you never know which implement was responsible for the reduction. You're then stuck with all of them running at the same time.

Why not start with one and see what happens?

Biopellets usually take 6wks or so to become colonized with bacteria, and it's recommended to stay with half the amount listed for the tank and gradually add more.

 

[SeaDweller]

Which model? TS-1? You said a 210 tank?

I'm using the TS-1 on a 240 gallon tank. It was never really meant to eliminate my NO3, more like to help keep it in check. When my tank was in its prime, I couldn't keep NO3 up. It became fish only inadvertently and life kicked in and my water params got really bad. I'm playing catch up right now.

You should look into the Seapora line that big al's sells. They make the aquamaxx line, just branded aquamaxx for the states. They have a nitrate reactor that is the exact same as their sulfur denitrator reactor (the nitrate reactor comes with bioballs, the and sulfur one doesn't) but it's identical. So had I known that and didn't hastily buy the TS-1, I would have bought that version and ditched the bioballs for sulfur media. You'll see what I'm talking about.

https://www.bigalspets.com/seapora-nitrate-reactors.html?sku=56958

Now compare this to their sold out sulfur reactor on the site. It's identical, I've even looked up the specs on the Seapora site. Had I known, I would have went with this and replaced with sulfur because their large reactor is dirt cheap.

 

[jasonrusso]

One of the major drawbacks to running multiple nitrate removal at a time is you never know which implement was responsible for the reduction. You're then stuck with all of them running at the same time.

Why not start with one and see what happens?

Biopellets usually take 6wks or so to become colonized with bacteria, and it's recommended to stay with half the amount listed for the tank and gradually add more.

3 years of biopellets hasn't worked yet.

 

[jasonrusso]

I'm using the TS-1 on a 240 gallon tank. It was never really meant to eliminate my NO3, more like to help keep it in check. When my tank was in its prime, I couldn't keep NO3 up. It became fish only inadvertently and life kicked in and my water params got really bad. I'm playing catch up right now.

You should look into the Seapora line that big al's sells. They make the aquamaxx line, just branded aquamaxx for the states. They have a nitrate reactor that is the exact same as their sulfur denitrator reactor (the nitrate reactor comes with bioballs, the and sulfur one doesn't) but it's identical. So had I known that and didn't hastily buy the TS-1, I would have bought that version and ditched the bioballs for sulfur media. You'll see what I'm talking about.

https://www.bigalspets.com/seapora-nitrate-reactors.html?sku=56958

Now compare this to their sold out sulfur reactor on the site. It's identical, I've even looked up the specs on the Seapora site. Had I known, I would have went with this and replaced with sulfur because their large reactor is dirt cheap.

Thanks so much. Does the reactor sit in the sump or outside with a pump feeding it?

If the matrix doesn't work, I will have room for a reactor but outside the sump.

 

[SeaDweller]

3 years of biopellets hasn't worked yet.

Honestly I know you said you can't do large water changes, but why can't you (out of curiosity)? Initially I was set on paying someone nearly $200 for a water change of 175 gallons. That would have been a waste.

I ended up buying four new brutes (two I got half off cuz they were missing lids), a brute dolly, And 2 extra boxes of salt for approx $200 and I got 400 gallons worth of water change. Large water changes will reduce that in no time. I came to find out that my NO3 was probably 200+ and not 100 like salifert was reading because my first 120 gallon change still showed 100+ on salifert.

 

[SeaDweller]

Thanks so much. Does the reactor sit in the sump or outside with a pump feeding it?

If the matrix doesn't work, I will have room for a reactor but outside the sump.

It sits outside like a calcium reactor for me. I run matrix too, but passively. I'm sure if it's in a canister reactor then in time you'll produce the anaerobic conditions needed for the matrix to work.

You have to remember if your NO3 is that high, it's going to take a LONG time, if ever, to process that much volume in such small filters. So your best bet is to lower it as much as you can thru dilution.

Randy put it in perspective for me in one of his threads regarding sulfur reactors: we are trying to process hundreds of gallons, fed thru a pump that does xx amount of gallons per hour or day or whatever and producing small amounts of effluent each day. How quickly can you get rid of that much NO3, you know? You can't.

To give you an idea, it took a little over a month for my reactor that was full of 200+ NO3 water to finally produce 0 ppm NO3 after those water changes. So I'm guessing it took a few days for the water inside the reactor to completely change over to begin working effectively, but it took weeks for colonization. I almost threw the reactor out the door because I thought I wasted my money.

 

[jasonrusso]

Honestly I know you said you can't do large water changes, but why can't you (out of curiosity)? Initially I was set on paying someone nearly $200 for a water change of 175 gallons. That would have been a waste.

I ended up buying four new brutes (two I got half off cuz they were missing lids), a brute dolly, And 2 extra boxes of salt for approx $200 and I got 400 gallons worth of water change. Large water changes will reduce that in no time. I came to find out that my NO3 was probably 200+ and not 100 like salifert was reading because my first 120 gallon change still showed 100+ on salifert.

First I need to buy barrels. It will take me days to make the water, then I need to buy heaters and match the temp, then I need to do the change while not freaking out the fish too much.

Sometimes the stress is not worth it, even if the nitrates aren't that much of a factor anyway, that's still up for debate.

I dilluted the test 4:1 and got around 20 so I figure I am around 100.

I'm all for using NOPOX, pellets, matrix to bring it down and then maintaining it. I'm also ok with doing 15 gallons a day (that's what my heated RODI barrel holds).

 

[SeaDweller]

First I need to buy barrels. It will take me days to make the water, then I need to buy heaters and match the temp, then I need to do the change while not freaking out the fish too much.

Sometimes the stress is not worth it, even if the nitrates aren't that much of a factor anyway, that's still up for debate.

I dilluted the test 4:1 and got around 20 so I figure I am around 100.

I'm all for using NOPOX, pellets, matrix to bring it down and then maintaining it. I'm also ok with doing 15 gallons a day (that's what my heated RODI barrel holds).

Got it. Well figure I had 8 tangs and anthias and potters angel in 200+ ppm and they all survived. Probably not the best, but I did notice my desjardini always looking white. Now he's back to normal colors.

Good luck man, I can honestly relate to you. I hope you'll have success with the sulfur reactor if you go that route too. Go as slow as you can with flow with the matrix and hopefully that helps out.

Btw, I also have been dosing microbacter 7 too, to help out with some more biodiversity and probably help replenish some microbes if I ever needed it.

 

[Pntbll687]

How much matrix did you get? I'm thinking you would better results with a larger amount in media bags tossed in the sump.

The flow over the outside of the bag would be higher, but you would probably get a larger amount of denitrification with what is in the middle of the media bags.

 

[jasonrusso]

Got it. Well figure I had 8 tangs and anthias and potters angel in 200+ ppm and they all survived. Probably not the best, but I did notice my desjardini always looking white. Now he's back to normal colors.

Good luck man, I can honestly relate to you. I hope you'll have success with the sulfur reactor if you go that route too. Go as slow as you can with flow with the matrix and hopefully that helps out.

Btw, I also have been dosing microbacter 7 too, to help out with some more biodiversity and probably help replenish some microbes if I ever needed it.

I'm thinking about the microbacter 7 as well. It is the only one that states denitryfing bacteria

 

[jasonrusso]

How much matrix did you get? I'm thinking you would better results with a larger amount in media bags tossed in the sump.

The flow over the outside of the bag would be higher, but you would probably get a larger amount of denitrification with what is in the middle of the media bags.

I have 1500ml in a phosban 550 running 30-35 GPH.

I have some more coming today and I figured I'd put another 500g in a bag in the sump. This is 2X times what Seachem requires, but you can't overdose matrix.