OP
OP
AP_Reefing
Community Member
Got it, Thank you
2 & 1/2 weeks fully cycled?? Is this possible?
- Thread starter AP_Reefing
- Start date
- Tagged users None
OP
OP
AP_Reefing
Community Member
Nice, ok I will do it. I will try tonight if not then tom hopefully. I definitely will. Thank you for the suggestion it'll be nice to see the progress over time (the good and the bad
Glass Algae
Show Me The Anemone!
My sentiments exactlyNice, ok I will do it. I will try tonight if not then tom hopefully. I definitely will. Thank you for the suggestion it'll be nice to see the progress over time (the good and the bad
Just so I am clear here.
You did a fish in cycle with live rock, addetives,
4 clowns, and 4 Chromis.
I know its exciting and all but please please do yourself a favor and slow down.
As you say your new to this.
Then you need to research.
You will possibly have the Clowns fighting and killing one another.
Same with the Chromis.
It does not sound you plan to quarenteen anything.
Most here will tell you this is not a good idea including myself.
How many gallons of water in your system and how much live rock and sand?
I am very concerned that you're going to overload the bacteria.
Prime is a tool to be used in case of an emergency.
Something dies in the tank and you did not know and your ammonia spikes. Something like that, not for over excitement with livestock overload.
I would recomend getting a QT and for new fish, and corals.
What is done is done now but give the system to come to a ballance.
You need to think about a clean up crew.
Most of all research the fish you want and KNOW what they need for care.
What the proper food for each is.
The Tangs you want require a large tank especially if you want to add 5.
Have you researched tank size for them?
I want to see you succeed with as little failure as possible.
This requires knowledge and understanding by doing the homework and asking questions.
If you introduce one fish with ICH it ould kill every fist in the tank.
It needs to be treated with copper and copper cant be added to you display tank as it will ruin your rock and sand forever.
Also if you have a case of ICK in the display the parasites can remain in the rock and infest new fish.
The tank would have to run without fish for 76 days to stop this from happening.
You will be entering the ugly phase here quick with an aray of algaes.
This is just part of the process and you need to understand the whats and hows to do for all this.
Take a breath, enjoy what you have make sure the tank is stabilized.
Think about adding more livestock in a month, not Thursday.
You did a fish in cycle with live rock, addetives,
4 clowns, and 4 Chromis.
I know its exciting and all but please please do yourself a favor and slow down.
As you say your new to this.
Then you need to research.
You will possibly have the Clowns fighting and killing one another.
Same with the Chromis.
It does not sound you plan to quarenteen anything.
Most here will tell you this is not a good idea including myself.
How many gallons of water in your system and how much live rock and sand?
I am very concerned that you're going to overload the bacteria.
Prime is a tool to be used in case of an emergency.
Something dies in the tank and you did not know and your ammonia spikes. Something like that, not for over excitement with livestock overload.
I would recomend getting a QT and for new fish, and corals.
What is done is done now but give the system to come to a ballance.
You need to think about a clean up crew.
Most of all research the fish you want and KNOW what they need for care.
What the proper food for each is.
The Tangs you want require a large tank especially if you want to add 5.
Have you researched tank size for them?
I want to see you succeed with as little failure as possible.
This requires knowledge and understanding by doing the homework and asking questions.
If you introduce one fish with ICH it ould kill every fist in the tank.
It needs to be treated with copper and copper cant be added to you display tank as it will ruin your rock and sand forever.
Also if you have a case of ICK in the display the parasites can remain in the rock and infest new fish.
The tank would have to run without fish for 76 days to stop this from happening.
You will be entering the ugly phase here quick with an aray of algaes.
This is just part of the process and you need to understand the whats and hows to do for all this.
Take a breath, enjoy what you have make sure the tank is stabilized.
Think about adding more livestock in a month, not Thursday.
AP
post a pic of your live rock and we will finalize this cycles status in half a second
if you used real live rock from a tank in the pet store, there was no cycle, fish weren’t harmed because lr doesn’t uncycle when moving tanks. It doesn’t have die off either, it just moves. Die off happens in shipping when it’s days in a closed bag, not home from a pet store.
if it wasn’t true live rock, we will see in the pic details. Bottle bac still prevented any cycle issues, two weeks is done cycling in both cases.
when I take a 14 year nano apart completely to clean and then put it back together with a new sandbed, and skip the cycle, thats same as you parting out a tank at the pet store and re setting it up at home, no difference. No part of your cycle is lagging or partial, it’s done due to not starting with all dry material plus two weeks, thats done time for every boosted cycle where live rock or bottle bac or both has been used.
pics are going to tell us if it was totally skip cycled done on day one, via bacterial transfer. If your rocks were from a tank at the fish store underwater vs dry, you skipped the whole cycle as I do every time I clean the nano reef fully.
its true disease vectoring is a problem, wait to add more fish until you read stickies in the fish disease forum here showing how to prevent disease
your cycle is certainly done, pics of the rocks up close will let us state when it was done going off live rock growth details if any.
post a pic of your live rock and we will finalize this cycles status in half a second
if you used real live rock from a tank in the pet store, there was no cycle, fish weren’t harmed because lr doesn’t uncycle when moving tanks. It doesn’t have die off either, it just moves. Die off happens in shipping when it’s days in a closed bag, not home from a pet store.
if it wasn’t true live rock, we will see in the pic details. Bottle bac still prevented any cycle issues, two weeks is done cycling in both cases.
when I take a 14 year nano apart completely to clean and then put it back together with a new sandbed, and skip the cycle, thats same as you parting out a tank at the pet store and re setting it up at home, no difference. No part of your cycle is lagging or partial, it’s done due to not starting with all dry material plus two weeks, thats done time for every boosted cycle where live rock or bottle bac or both has been used.
pics are going to tell us if it was totally skip cycled done on day one, via bacterial transfer. If your rocks were from a tank at the fish store underwater vs dry, you skipped the whole cycle as I do every time I clean the nano reef fully.
its true disease vectoring is a problem, wait to add more fish until you read stickies in the fish disease forum here showing how to prevent disease
your cycle is certainly done, pics of the rocks up close will let us state when it was done going off live rock growth details if any.
Last edited:
OP
OP
AP_Reefing
Community Member
Thank you for the response! It's hard to be patient (I'm sure for others but I have extra powerlessness to patience then most) I am trying though. I accepted needing the patience but only after testing did it pop back up again (the excitement).
For context here is pretty much the story on where we are:
Tank is a reefer 525xl (139 gallon with sump)
113lbs of live rock (I think real reef but forgot).
30% of the rock came from sitting in a tank in the store and the rest came from boxes (was moist)
2 bags of live sand.
As for adding fish/ coral, etc.. The owner of the shop that I got setup with agreed to buy and QT everything I get from him 1-2 weeks in advance , basically I ask tell him what I'd like and he helps put together and get it ready to be put in because getting a qt tank right after getting this big one wouldn't bode (is that the word?) with my wife (at least not for now).
Just in case I will be dipping. He knows my tank and I trust that they will take the proper precautions before having me pick anything up.
The tangs adding the 5 of them is because it seems from what I've researched that it is difficult to add single tags in at later times, this is the reason that I am adding baby tangs.
For ICH, Unfortunately I jumped the gun and bought on day 2 a yuma (doing well) a blasto starting to breach) and a jawbreaker (wasn't doing great and now lost in my tank being rock somewhere). I didn't qt or even clean them. Didn't know what I was doing and after telling the guy that set it all up, I got blasted that the setup that was pretty up there could have gotten infested with parasites. I immediately took them out on the rocks that I glued them to (large rocks but removable), I blasted them with revive using a turkey baster for about an hour and put them back in. Learn the hopefully not so hard - hard way not to be that spontaneous and have patience.
At that point I came to accept that it will be until Sept that I couldn't add anything. I started going through some threads an learn about needing to constantly test the water. I then brought water to the store and bought the API & a phosphate tester and got taught how to use them. Went home and didn't think of doing anything and waited a week and said "heck, why not test it even though it'll be a month" , to which I posted the results above and got super excited again.
For the fish I added the 4 clowns because from what I've seen its hard to add them. The chromis I added 4 knowing that they may not all make it but wanted to cycle the tank faster and wanted action in the tank.
Now yes, I can probably get most of my information from the shop owner who is amazing but then I will never learn and using R2R would be pointless and I would miss out on this seemingly fun community that's hidden from regular society.
I am using the shop to do maintenance for about 6 months until the tank is really thriving and that most issues get dealt with. At the same time I am trying to make my own decisions based on research and asking Q's.
I know I know, patience is the key to a beautiful & successful reef tank and it will take years until I get there. I am trying though
OP
OP
AP_Reefing
Community Member
Hahah Love it! I will get to it shortly if my son allowsmy tank was up for 3 years when i joined. i just called it a built thread.
OP
OP
AP_Reefing
Community Member
Thank you for the insight, I really appreciate it.
I know that 30+% of the 113lbs of live rock came from inside a tank in the store that set it up and the rest was moist "live rock" from inside a box.
The rock I believe was sitting for about 7-14 days before getting to me. I as well 5 days apart added 2 fritz turbo 900's.
I never knew that it can happen so fast (not that its saying much because I only know about 2 months of information) but either way was told 4-6 weeks but usually it'll be closer to 6 weeks. I'm assuming they do this to prepare for the worst and get excited about the early results?! which in my case was a perfect idea
Good job. When I review a cycle the only goal is supporting life and $ without any harm, at the desired start time, I don’t judge if someone wants to wait or how they run various disease protocols. Many aquarists won’t qt anyway, they concentrate on diverse live and healthy feeds vs isolation and quarantine, Paul is one reefer who stands out in this way. That’s why I like cycle umpiring, we simply discern a valid start date for biofiltration. Everything wet listed above was pre cycled and dampness preserves bio filters just fine, whoever arranged your reef knew how to skip cycle.
if you had all dry surfaces and no wet ones, merely the fritz would have skip cycled you safely. The wet surfaces were cake icing
if you had all dry surfaces and no wet ones, merely the fritz would have skip cycled you safely. The wet surfaces were cake icing
OP
OP
AP_Reefing
Community Member
Agreed that is live, when they make painted rocks they don’t leave unpainted zones that’s real it appears, cured due to low plants and high coralline
upon zoom I can see actual growth projections off the rocks signifying true submersion time
this is a prime example of testless skip cycle rock. We don’t need to test it to know it’s alive, that’s the hallmark of live rock and we can see it. Anywhere coralline exists, the substrate it’s attached to is cycled. Filter bacteria are the basal first layer prime colonizers
by the time coralline gets there, its an old apartment used by generations of tenants and coralline is the crusty old grandpa who sets up shop long, long after filter bac moved in first.
your tank can handle fish day one of the transfer with that kind of live rock, it’s skip cycle rock. If you break this tank down and decide to move it to a bigger upgrade tank Friday, nothing dies, it skips over. Ad infinitum
upon zoom I can see actual growth projections off the rocks signifying true submersion time
this is a prime example of testless skip cycle rock. We don’t need to test it to know it’s alive, that’s the hallmark of live rock and we can see it. Anywhere coralline exists, the substrate it’s attached to is cycled. Filter bacteria are the basal first layer prime colonizers
by the time coralline gets there, its an old apartment used by generations of tenants and coralline is the crusty old grandpa who sets up shop long, long after filter bac moved in first.
your tank can handle fish day one of the transfer with that kind of live rock, it’s skip cycle rock. If you break this tank down and decide to move it to a bigger upgrade tank Friday, nothing dies, it skips over. Ad infinitum
Last edited:
OP
OP
AP_Reefing
Community Member
Thank you. Here is another example of learning and researching "diverse live and healthy feeds vs isolation and quarantine" I found a thread and will look into this. I thought frozen food was the way to go. I know that there is too much info out there but it seems like every time I come on here there's almost "too much" new information
OP
OP
AP_Reefing
Community Member
(still don't know how to double quote a couple replies) got it. I will research this all as well
Again Thank you for the insight!
This thread is specifically about doing skip cycle jobs for twenty pages
www.reef2reef.com
yours is group B rock from the thread
*when it’s mailed across the US live rock might smell and have dieoff, but not from a lfs tank that kind of rock just moves over infinitely without losing bac
the exact nature of your cycle is that the fritz wasn’t necessary. Didn’t hurt, but that degree of live rock alone with no boosting would run the same fish you have, your cycles was covered on all bases at the start, not just at 2.5 weeks, that was skip cycle rock.
when they set up a reef convention, with 500 skip cycle setups, it’s doing what you did with active substrate sent to the convention, set up via skip cycle biology, then taken home.
see this thread for maturing a tank with decent animals. Fish disease will be a real challenge for quick start reefs, but actually quick starting and six month follow up can be seen below. Dry rock start, no live, he had it toughest. Your kind of rock has a food web already.
how old was his tank when the anemone was added
www.reef2reef.com
hows it doing now
The microbiology of reef tank cycling.
You can skip your cycle. Ive been reefing online for twenty years and have never waited one second for a tank to cycle, because I buy rocks that are already cycled and move them home. Here's two: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/octo-high-end-sps-skip-cycle-build.713256/...
www.reef2reef.com
yours is group B rock from the thread
*when it’s mailed across the US live rock might smell and have dieoff, but not from a lfs tank that kind of rock just moves over infinitely without losing bac
the exact nature of your cycle is that the fritz wasn’t necessary. Didn’t hurt, but that degree of live rock alone with no boosting would run the same fish you have, your cycles was covered on all bases at the start, not just at 2.5 weeks, that was skip cycle rock.
when they set up a reef convention, with 500 skip cycle setups, it’s doing what you did with active substrate sent to the convention, set up via skip cycle biology, then taken home.
see this thread for maturing a tank with decent animals. Fish disease will be a real challenge for quick start reefs, but actually quick starting and six month follow up can be seen below. Dry rock start, no live, he had it toughest. Your kind of rock has a food web already.
how old was his tank when the anemone was added
Bio-spira works great
I just started a new tank a little over a week ago. I started with all dry rock and new sand. I added a bottle of Bio-Spira and put fish and coral the same day. Never saw any ammonia and fish and coral seem healthy.
www.reef2reef.com
hows it doing now
Last edited:
laverda
2500 Club Member
Adding 5 tangs to a tank that size is a mistake. At most you would be able to keep 2 smaller tangs in a tank that size long term. Look into how big the tangs your considering getting will get. Some get to be 14”.
Adding an anemone to your tank at this point is almost guaranteed to kill it. Anemones need an established tank, not just one that is cycled. There is a very big difference.
Slow down and save yourself aggravation and expense from losing animals your tank is not ready or able to support. This applies to corals as well.
Adding an anemone to your tank at this point is almost guaranteed to kill it. Anemones need an established tank, not just one that is cycled. There is a very big difference.
Slow down and save yourself aggravation and expense from losing animals your tank is not ready or able to support. This applies to corals as well.
Homebrewer
Active Member
+1 on this. Cycled and mature are two different things. I wrote something yesterday to this point. A cycle is not a one time event, though it is often referred to as such. A mature tank is constantly “cycling” (think cyclical, constant turning of more harmful stuff into less harmful, etc.). Just because a new system has gone through a cycle, it doesn’t mean the system is well established enough to support what you’re proposing.
By the looks of it, you’ve spent a fair amount of money on this system and you’ll have it for a long time. A few more weeks or months of waiting will be worth it in both the short and long term.
OP
OP
AP_Reefing
Community Member
Thank you, will look later today at this.This thread is specifically about doing skip cycle jobs for twenty pages
The microbiology of reef tank cycling.
You can skip your cycle. Ive been reefing online for twenty years and have never waited one second for a tank to cycle, because I buy rocks that are already cycled and move them home. Here's two: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/octo-high-end-sps-skip-cycle-build.713256/...
yours is group B rock from the thread
*when it’s mailed across the US live rock might smell and have dieoff, but not from a lfs tank that kind of rock just moves over infinitely without losing bac
the exact nature of your cycle is that the fritz wasn’t necessary. Didn’t hurt, but that degree of live rock alone with no boosting would run the same fish you have, your cycles was covered on all bases at the start, not just at 2.5 weeks, that was skip cycle rock.
when they set up a reef convention, with 500 skip cycle setups, it’s doing what you did with active substrate sent to the convention, set up via skip cycle biology, then taken home.
see this thread for maturing a tank with decent animals. Fish disease will be a real challenge for quick start reefs, but actually quick starting and six month follow up can be seen below. Dry rock start, no live, he had it toughest. Your kind of rock has a food web already.
how old was his tank when the anemone was added
Bio-spira works great
I just started a new tank a little over a week ago. I started with all dry rock and new sand. I added a bottle of Bio-Spira and put fish and coral the same day. Never saw any ammonia and fish and coral seem healthy.
hows it doing now
Thanks for the explanation on the cycling. Good to know that all was well from the beginning..
I didn't put the anemone in the tank yet. It will be going in tom (I thought Thursday but schedule wise needed to change it). Essentially the tank will be 24 days old once it goes in along with the 5 tangs and possibly additional cleaning crew.
I am waiting for the MP40 covers to come and will shut them off until they come (3 days later). Last night I turned on the UV & the skimmer now that I know its deff cycled
OP
OP
AP_Reefing
Community Member
Just saw this, Thank you for the response.
Don't know if this helps but I do plan in the future to break down this tank for a move (local move. Only a few blocks away) and have a much larger tank in addition to this tank which will help with the tang sizing issues because I can always separate them if need be for size.. I didn't realize that this tank is to small for 5 tangs, I'm learning a lot every day. Thankfully there's accidentally a plan already in motion on what do do as the time comes which it will unless I get out of the hobby (hopefully I won't).
For the anemone, I actually haven't heard this before. I have already purchased it and now am at a crossroad. It is my first tank and I know that I need to learn a lot still. For the anemone I'm ok taking the gamble. I know it seems like I'm adding allot, for me its not much "action wise" and after this add I won't be touching it for a while and will monitor everything to see how things are shaking out
Similar threads
