6 week tank decline, can't diagnose issue (ICP test results included)

[CoralDanimal]

Hello,

At the beginning of the year, I upgraded my tank from a RSR Nano (28 gallons) to a RSR (43 gallons). In hindsight I wish I wouldn't have because the tank was doing great, but shortly after the tank transfer everything went south quickly.

Here's a catalog of events:

• 1st week of January - tank transfer, everything goes well
• 2nd week of January - while looking at my tank I noticed my tiger conch was doing something odd. It was sort of launching itself like it wanted to jump out of the tank. I thought maybe it was hungry or something and didn't think much of it (in hindsight I wish I would have immediately sent in an ICP test to Triton). About a day or two later I noticed my urchin shed a couple of spines and at this point I knew something was up so I tested everything. Only one test came back out of range which was my dKH. It was at 5.6. For the past two years I've been running the tank at around 6.5 dKH & 420 calcium so while it was low, it wasn't super low for me. Over the course of the next 24 hours I raised it up to ~7 dKH which admittedly was a little higher than I wanted to raise it in such short time. Then all hell broke loose and my acros started to immediately slime / no PE. Added in a big skimmer to help pull out whatever was in the water.
• 3rd week - steady dKH for a week and still no progress. I had two theories. One was the low dKH and then raising it back up too fast. Low dKH stressed out the inverts and then raising it too fast stressed out the corals being the theory. The other theory was that the tank potentially re-cycled post move (I'll come back to this). Due to timing of raising the alkalinity and the sudden acro decline, I figured it was that. For the next week I meticulously measured the dKH 2-3 times per day to keep the level right at 6.6-6.8. Right where I used to have it and kept it stable. The tank continued to decline. 3 of my main acro colonies had very little PE and started to experience some RTN After a week of stable dKH and lowered lighting (Radion 80% -> 25%, reduced T5 schedule) I figured it must be something else. When I moved the tank, I didn't transfer much of the sand bed. Maybe 30% of the original sand I kept and the remainder was fresh. Of the sand I kept, I siphoned it into a bucket and then rinsed it with tank water so I wasn't putting a detritus bomb into the new tank but I'd bring over some of the good bacteria (I was hoping). Maybe the sand being kicked up caused a new cycle especially since the Nano -> 170 was moving from 28 gallons to 43 gallons and when it was all said & done it was like a 70% water change. I ordered fresh Nitrite & Ammonia test kits and overnighted them. When I tested, nothing. No nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, phosphate and yet the tank continued to decline. The only notable change was a lot of brown jelly-esque algae. On the sand, in the sump. Not a crazy amount, but enough where my filter socks were clogging faster than they usually do. It was the second week of January by now and it was about 10 days into the tank slump.

It's now 6 weeks and the decline continues. I've lost all but two acro colonies. I've been doing weekly 25% water changes and nothing. I thought maybe it was my RODI water even though the TDS was only 1 so I ordered all new cartridges and that didn't help. I got my ICP results back this week and it showed elevated levels of tin and antimony so I overnighted Seachem Cuprisorb, but after two days it doesn't seem to have helped. All I can imagine is that the really low levels of phosphate & nitrate could be an issue so I'm thinking maybe I should dose nitrates/phosphates (from Brightwell). There is either diatom algae or dinos/cyano on the sand bed but it's not too bad. I would say that in the past 3 weeks or so the amount of film algae has been pretty crazy. Almost having to clean my glass every other day and clean out filter socks daily because of how clogged they're getting.

I'd love any ideas or help at this point because I've lost confidence I'm going to turn this around myself. Current ideas:

• Siphon out all sand
• Do a massive water change (50%)
• Dose nitrates/phosphate to get to non-zero levels

It went from this:

To:

 

[brandon429]

first recommend isn't procedural, its to select one method and stick with it. If you sample from random offers and select the best, that adds up to something different than the intended ideal action for your reef.

among your offers pick only one and run it fully, have a known timeframe you're willing to implement the changes, give the method time. after than change it again to a full new method you think has the best shot.

 

[brandon429]

if that was my tank: I read your description well before I saw the pic and envisioned this so much worse. you then posted a tank that could be an article review in its current condition meaning we cant see any stress, meaning you're acting far early to head off any issues which is the rare ideal.

My first action would be a full water change matching the temp and salinity of the current tank water, all of it. pour slowly, stir up new sand, in fact Id consider cleaning out the sandbed if its inherently cloudy if disturbed, currently.

*blue lights vs white*
though I cannot see any coral issues, you are seeing things in person and know transitional details over the past weeks. universally, too white LED light causes your growth issues, everyone's testing high in Tin nowadays if they send in a sample, and Ive never in my life had a nano reef fail to follow directions so there's no reason yours will be the first.

If you feel compelled to address a chemical issue, its not dosed or measured back into place over time. In a nano, we do things all at once because the size of the system allows that access. Your tank is no where near as challenging as some of the current algae wars we have going on, we reassemble perfectly running reefs in those threads, yours is the same its just not invaded. The only reason to consider rip cleaning your tank out vs just a standard drain and water change is to address sandbed clouding if any, if the use of fish about that sand has packed it with detritus that clouds upon light disturbance, we fix that always.

If your tank was mine I'd decrease white lighting below current levels, ride it out bluer than normal a couple weeks. Id target feed each coral, my food of choice is roti feast and Id change water like CPR higher % sustained on top of a clean sandbed that doesn't kick up any waste. Ive fixed a thousand nanos w that approach.
B

Since its work heavy, and not chemistry/testing based, its the least common approach. The tinkering, testing and responding is the most common but that's not what runs our 20 page tank correction threads churning out straight up fixed reefs, what I typed above produces the results.

At no time in any tank rework thread Ive ever done regarding nanos did we factor in chemistry or param readings. We can get full compliance with mere full water change and a system cleaning, then your params match to what new makeup water causes; theres nothing in the tank to shift them for a while such as acid-producing waste metabolites from detritus digestion in a cloudy sandbed where applicable, yours looks pretty clean.

that reef looks great I cant really see a prob, is why I recommended starting only with blue light/ less white light. My red montis will begin to bleach if I turn my kessil closer to 10 k at the same intensity it is now but at all blue side (still some white but less)

You can lower the whites on any happy reef in the world and not harm it, I’m naming things that shouldn’t kill your tank even if they don’t fix the issue.

In looking at the pics again this morning the less white light really strikes me most of all, my own montis would demand bluer than that above in order to not lighten, I can’t answer why some people don’t have issues under whiter light but for sure I’d reduce that white bigtime and sustain it for a month before considering other treatments. There’s nothing wrong with your reef it’s bordering fantastic, but if you are noticing lightening you’ll need to target feed, change more water, and drop those whites

 

[CoralDanimal]

Thanks @brandon429! Very helpful. I'm going to start with a very large water change with matched dKH, salinity, temp and siphon out as much sand as possible. I'll report back on progress as the week progresses. If others have ideas, please feel free to chime in.

 

[lapin]

I think brandon429 has said it. Just keep it simple and try not to change too many things. The branch has broken off the tree, now the tree needs to recover.

 

[brandon429]

I’d be interested in just the wc part initially even if you didn’t pull the sand

Working in increments can be tricky, each minor removal always casts a little silt around the tank from the separated parts of the sand which might could cause a minor bloom in the system but not badly, just a change based on exposed nutrients. We already have so many nanos doing 50% changes that’s already known safe, the less white light is known safe, that’s the best way imo to avoid taking unnecessary risks with the setup

 

[MnFish1]

I agree with @brandon429

1st week of January - tank transfer, everything goes well

What is 'tank transfer' - I assume you mean you moved stuff from one tank to another (a huge stress thing)

(in hindsight I wish I would have immediately sent in an ICP test to Triton).

This would have been a waste of time - unless you thought you had introduced cadmium or some other thing into your tank with the transfer (note this is not a slam against you - I just dont believe in ICP tests)

Only one test came back out of range which was my dKH. It was at 5.6.

Thats Low. but yours is always low. Is it possible that it was really 'lower' than 5.6 . ? How often were you testing it?

ne was the low dKH and then raising it back up too fast. Low dKH stressed out the inverts and then raising it too fast stressed out the corals being the theory. The other theory was that the tank potentially re-cycled post move (I'll come back to this).

It could be both - and I hope you figure it out. Doing a move is always stressful - if anyone knows what to do its @brandon429 with cycling. Its too bad you dont have ammonia, etc results. My guess is that was not the issue (unless you really took out all your nitrifies)

Best of luck - sorry if the above sounded harsh - wasnt meant to be - but its late at night. Good luck with your tank

 

[brandon429]

tbh the sand here doesn’t look bad, the cross section doesn’t show dark pocketing, not a high bioload reef. I sure would like to see it fed and exported busier than norm with less white lights sustained for a month, I really think that + work + feed and export -exercise- and lower whites for the reef will get the corals growing again. It’s rare to find a tank I don’t want to take apart but this one looks so balanced. Sand or not, nbd. It probably holds in a bit of nutrient in this case that is preventing more bleaching if that’s deemed to be the current trend. If this tank is made bare bottom then it’ll just have more feed intake ability bc the detritus can be siphoned off the floor easily. I would keep the sand here the tank looks nice

 

[MARK M. DAVIS]

I’m an sps guy! I noticed all the colonies you pulled out. Yes, it would suck. With a tank move, you’ll get a mini cycle. If you opt to reduce white lights and increase blues, then reduce light intensity for acclimation. The move stresses the coral and additional stress will kill. That alk is low. But, it didn’t get there overnight and shouldn’t be corrected overnight. Your tank, due to the move, isn’t stable and changes must be made slower than normal. Look for the source of tin one day. Not the cause but, could be a sign of brass rust, magnet exposure. Add probidio biodigest and optim. Feed coral very little reef chili, benepets, or reefroids. Read a little of my blog on Facebook: advanced aquatic solutions. It’s a public page. Get into a schedule and don’t try to fix too fast. Stability is key for sps.

 

[MARK M. DAVIS]

Small changes and the coral will recover. Big changes and they’ll die.

 

[CoralDanimal]

Thanks everyone for the help. Did a 25% WC last night. Going to let the tank relax all week with moderate feeding. I've also taken the skimmer offline because I fear it was overskimming the already nutrient depleted tank. I'll post updates if I have any.

I think brandon429 has said it. Just keep it simple and try not to change too many things. The branch has broken off the tree, now the tree needs to recover.

One of the big lessons learned was trying to change too many things at once when I saw the tank wasn't happy.

I’d be interested in just the wc part initially even if you didn’t pull the sand

Working in increments can be tricky, each minor removal always casts a little silt around the tank from the separated parts of the sand which might could cause a minor bloom in the system but not badly, just a change based on exposed nutrients. We already have so many nanos doing 50% changes that’s already known safe, the less white light is known safe, that’s the best way imo to avoid taking unnecessary risks with the setup

25% water change last night. Pulled out some sand as well.

I agree with @brandon429

What is 'tank transfer' - I assume you mean you moved stuff from one tank to another (a huge stress thing)

Thats Low. but yours is always low. Is it possible that it was really 'lower' than 5.6 . ? How often were you testing it?

It could be both - and I hope you figure it out. Doing a move is always stressful - if anyone knows what to do its @brandon429 with cycling. Its too bad you dont have ammonia, etc results. My guess is that was not the issue (unless you really took out all your nitrifies)

Best of luck - sorry if the above sounded harsh - wasnt meant to be - but its late at night. Good luck with your tank

Thanks. By tank transfer, I meant tank upgrade. When I moved the tank (5 feet across the same room) it was essentially a 50% water change given all the new water needed for the bigger tank. I don't think it was lower than 5.6 - I have a Hanna checker and checked it every day since the 5.6 reading. I did test ammonia and nitrites, but didn't get any readings. I do think it probably had a mini-cycle but I wish it would have showed up on test results so I could have known for sure.

tbh the sand here doesn’t look bad, the cross section doesn’t show dark pocketing, not a high bioload reef. I sure would like to see it fed and exported busier than norm with less white lights sustained for a month, I really think that + work + feed and export -exercise- and lower whites for the reef will get the corals growing again. It’s rare to find a tank I don’t want to take apart but this one looks so balanced. Sand or not, nbd. It probably holds in a bit of nutrient in this case that is preventing more bleaching if that’s deemed to be the current trend. If this tank is made bare bottom then it’ll just have more feed intake ability bc the detritus can be siphoned off the floor easily. I would keep the sand here the tank looks nice

Lowered my whites and strength of my lights. I'm not even running the T5s (just Radion @ 30%). Going to try and feed 3 times a day, but not overfeed. Just as much as my baby kole tang will gobble up.

I’m an sps guy! I noticed all the colonies you pulled out. Yes, it would suck. With a tank move, you’ll get a mini cycle. If you opt to reduce white lights and increase blues, then reduce light intensity for acclimation. The move stresses the coral and additional stress will kill. That alk is low. But, it didn’t get there overnight and shouldn’t be corrected overnight. Your tank, due to the move, isn’t stable and changes must be made slower than normal. Look for the source of tin one day. Not the cause but, could be a sign of brass rust, magnet exposure. Add probidio biodigest and optim. Feed coral very little reef chili, benepets, or reefroids. Read a little of my blog on Facebook: advanced aquatic solutions. It’s a public page. Get into a schedule and don’t try to fix too fast. Stability is key for sps.

Haha yes it did suck. I did reduce the intensity and I wish I would have been more patient when raising the dKH last month. 5.6 -> 7 in under 24 hours I'm sure didn't help my cause. Thanks for the additional resources. Going to feed reef chili tonight and try to keep to a schedule to stabilize the tank.

 

[brandon429]

its solid plan ok this w be fun to watch updates. the tank will originate looking great and end looking great ha