A Unique New Person Question...

[GrumpyDadsWallet]

Ok, maybe this isn't so unique, but Id like opinions of the pros in here that have years of experience, been there/done that/have the t-shirt.

To get into reefing or not!?
Ive been wanting to get into this hobby for many years. Every time I start to dig into it, I pretty much walk away. Cost, time, benefit vs cost etc. Then I forget everything and come back 5 years later with that itch again. Are there others like me that eventually pulled the cord and jump into the hobby? Did you regret it? Time is still a factor, cost not so much, but I also dont want to be like so many people I see on facebook marketplace chasing biology problems with technology, spending 15k on a 70 -110 gal tank. That seems ridiculous to me. Maybe it wont in three years, I dont know. But Id like to hear from others that were like me maybe.

Go big or go home, or go small and feel less regret if the experiment is a failure?
Everything I read says either 1. get as big a tank as you can afford or 2. Dont listen to #1, that's a path to ruin both financially, mentally and with your time. Get a nano tank, learn from your mistakes, get that tuned in and if you can succeed with a nano tank you can do so with a larger and will enjoy it more.
So which is it? (I know someone will say both..just know it)

WEIGHT/Room
The tanks are so heavy! 200 pounds for a 78 gal waterbox or IM tank? Are they really that heavy? The stats arent super easy to find or just dont make sense. For example a waterbox 78 gal is 200 pounds but a 60 gal that is 1' shorter is only 110 pounds? That math aint mathing. If the glass were a different thickness maybe but it isn't. I cant imagine trying to hulk this 200# tank down the stairs by myself even with another strong person helping. Add one or two more people and I dont think we would fit on the stairs. How are people moving these around?

Tank Shape
Everyone seems to be chasing lighting par at depth, yet all the tanks are super deep and narrow. Why is that? I do not like the look of square or even tall rectangle tanks, at all. And everything I read, says that a wider tank is better for fish happiness. Is there some reason that all the tanks out there seem to be taller than they are wider? Sure there are 'frag' tanks which seem to be the appropriate size, but those are far fewer in options.

I have my eyes on a waterbox or IM around 70-100 gal display for my first tank. I really think that 60 gal would be the bare min I would want to go, and Im absolutely not interested in AIO's. Maybe this is a bad assessment on my part, but when I started thinking of getting into the hobby I started looking at the Hello reef, then read about the pains of nano tanks and how you can really only add two clownfish AT BEST in a mature tank and then watch as all the coral continue to die. What really sealed the deal for me to stop looking at Hello reef or nanos in general was the guy that does all the videos, he posted his journey of failures with a nano tank and coral deaths. If the pro cant make it work, how would I? No thanks.

Thanks all, appreciate your valued input.

 

[Dan_P]

Ok, maybe this isn't so unique, but Id like opinions of the pros in here that have years of experience, been there/done that/have the t-shirt.

To get into reefing or not!?
Ive been wanting to get into this hobby for many years. Every time I start to dig into it, I pretty much walk away. Cost, time, benefit vs cost etc. Then I forget everything and come back 5 years later with that itch again. Are there others like me that eventually pulled the cord and jump into the hobby? Did you regret it? Time is still a factor, cost not so much, but I also dont want to be like so many people I see on facebook marketplace chasing biology problems with technology, spending 15k on a 70 -110 gal tank. That seems ridiculous to me. Maybe it wont in three years, I dont know. But Id like to hear from others that were like me maybe.

Go big or go home, or go small and feel less regret if the experiment is a failure?
Everything I read says either 1. get as big a tank as you can afford or 2. Dont listen to #1, that's a path to ruin both financially, mentally and with your time. Get a nano tank, learn from your mistakes, get that tuned in and if you can succeed with a nano tank you can do so with a larger and will enjoy it more.
So which is it? (I know someone will say both..just know it)

WEIGHT/Room
The tanks are so heavy! 200 pounds for a 78 gal waterbox or IM tank? Are they really that heavy? The stats arent super easy to find or just dont make sense. For example a waterbox 78 gal is 200 pounds but a 60 gal that is 1' shorter is only 110 pounds? That math aint mathing. If the glass were a different thickness maybe but it isn't. I cant imagine trying to hulk this 200# tank down the stairs by myself even with another strong person helping. Add one or two more people and I dont think we would fit on the stairs. How are people moving these around?

Tank Shape
Everyone seems to be chasing lighting par at depth, yet all the tanks are super deep and narrow. Why is that? I do not like the look of square or even tall rectangle tanks, at all. And everything I read, says that a wider tank is better for fish happiness. Is there some reason that all the tanks out there seem to be taller than they are wider? Sure there are 'frag' tanks which seem to be the appropriate size, but those are far fewer in options.

I have my eyes on a waterbox or IM around 70-100 gal display for my first tank. I really think that 60 gal would be the bare min I would want to go, and Im absolutely not interested in AIO's. Maybe this is a bad assessment on my part, but when I started thinking of getting into the hobby I started looking at the Hello reef, then read about the pains of nano tanks and how you can really only add two clownfish AT BEST in a mature tank and then watch as all the coral continue to die. What really sealed the deal for me to stop looking at Hello reef or nanos in general was the guy that does all the videos, he posted his journey of failures with a nano tank and coral deaths. If the pro cant make it work, how would I? No thanks.

Thanks all, appreciate your valued input.

What other hobbies have you tried and succeeded? Failed?

 

[christinna77]

I had FW tanks about 15 years ago, but then I had to move and later had other pets. No joke, I kept having dreams about having a fish tank, like almost every week. I thought about getting one again so many times, but my partner had zero interest and actually said I couldn't choose a more boring pet, so I always gave up on the idea.

A few years ago I got fed up with the dreams and seriously considered getting a FOWLR. I talked to a friend who has a 400g, but he warned me that SW is a pain and said I should just stick to FW. The more I looked into SW, the more overwhelming it felt, and I did not feel ready at all, especially financially.

Then I went to Maui a few times and discovered all the fish there while snorkeling. After my third trip, being in the water almost every day and then coming home feeling absolutely miserable and missing the ocean so much, I finally decided it was time to just do it lol.

I was also in a good place financially so I could afford nice equipment like a Hydros controller, auto dosers, and mostly automate everything except WCs and some weekly testing. I really wanted to make sure it would not turn into a huge chore over time.

We own a condo, but it is concrete, so I was not really worried about weight. I went with a 75g since anything bigger would be awkward in my office, and honestly it has been the best decision (I'm at 9m mark now), despite going through some challenging times already (fish losses - that's been the most depressing part, fallow period - even after QTing, dinos, bubble algae, aiptasia, etc.).

I'm already planning a 120-140g once we move into a house, probably this year or next. That part has been actually the biggest PITA, as I wanna keep the tank in my office, but don't wanna be all the way in the basement because of the weight concerns. Also, most newer houses have lots of small rooms, instead of a few bigger ones.

Oh and my decision to mostly have FOWLR only? Yeah, didn't work out, I fell in love with Euphylia. Luckily, they seem to like my tank and have been thriving And my partner now regularly comes into my room to watch my tank, and even gave me a GC to my LFS as a Christmas gift!

 

[GrumpyDadsWallet]

What other hobbies have you tried and succeeded? Failed?

Golf, ski, snowboard - do those as much as I can but golf not as much. I give it up then pick it back up, mostly due to lack of people to go with. I wasnt very handy so I taught myself DIY things around the house, now I own every tool known to man and built my own house from the ground up including the sewage system, I have the bad knee now from it. There isnt much that Ive given up on once Ive started it. I usually research things like crazy then get frustrated when things pop up that shouldnt be happening but they do (like buying a well reviewed product that doesnt perform nearly as good as reviews)

 

[RocketEngineer]

To get into reefing or not!?
That’s on you and your reasons for it. I got into it because there was always stuff to learn. Many successful methods. I’ve left the hobby due to life but came back wiser and better prepared.

Go big or go home, or go small and feel less regret if the experiment is a failure?
Answer: Starting out, I recommend a 40B or 75G because they are big enough to be forgiving but small enough to be reasonably easy to manage. Once you get more into the hobby you can decide from there.

WEIGHT/Room
Answer: The glass weight depends on how it’s made. Rimless uses thicker glass. This adds a lot of weight for what is effectively the same size tank.

Tank Shape
Most “standard” tank sizes/dimensions came from FW. Those don’t have the same needs as reef tanks. More modern builders go for footprint vs height so there’s room for rockwork and corals. My 100G has height as its smallest dimension. My 125g had the width be the smallest. Tall and narrow made it a pain to work in. My 100 has lots of space.

Keep going your research. Ask questions. I planned for over a year for my IM 100EXT after selling my 125g. Don’t regret the size at all.

 

[Dan_P]

Golf, ski, snowboard - do those as much as I can but golf not as much. I give it up then pick it back up, mostly due to lack of people to go with. I wasnt very handy so I taught myself DIY things around the house, now I own every tool known to man and built my own house from the ground up including the sewage system, I have the bad knee now from it. There isnt much that Ive given up on once Ive started it. I usually research things like crazy then get frustrated when things pop up that shouldnt be happening but they do (like buying a well reviewed product that doesnt perform nearly as good as reviews)

It might be time to take the plunge. You won’t be technically challenged by the hobby. The biology and chemistry might take time to master.

 

[Jamie9]

I was in a similar boat. Spent a year or more researching, then I just decided the big tank I really wanted was too much for various reasons and gave up on it. 6 months later I was back to reading and researching and decided to just go for it with a 40G. I’ve been having a great time with it. Would I rather have something much larger? Sometimes…but it keeps me pretty busy and it’s been rewarding having to make smart choices that work in a smaller footprint.

 

[Szweier]

Having had a 24, 20 and now 100 maybe my story will help you make your decision.

The 24 was a lot of fun, had a few small fish swimming around and got to know coral. Water changes were pretty simple so the maintenance aspect wasn’t very time consuming.

The 20 was a lot of the same, the addition of a small sump let me have a bit more coral and fish while the maintenance remained the same.

Each time I looked at fish I wanted I’d always see how they needed a larger tank to keep them and always felt that if I just had a bigger tank all of the issues with what size fish I could get would go away.

The 100 gallon reality was a bit different. I started with a few small fish, attempted to move to larger fish which ended up with ich resulting in some other fish I had for a while dying. Now that’s not to say this would happen to you but it does then point to the fact that proper quarantine of the fish etc all need to be done. The same is true for small tanks but at least in a small tank the fish will be smaller and the qt setup will be as well. Everything is more expensive, everything is more time consuming. When things go well the bigger tank is beautiful and great to look at but be prepared to replace lighting probably around the five year mark.

I love my tank but I have had regrets and thought about shutting down a few times.

If I could do it all again I’m not sure I’d do the 100 gallon. If I did get a bigger tank it probably would’ve been a 40 or so. Enough room for some life in the tank but not totally overwhelming. That said I think I’m 50-50 on if I would do the 40 or not do it at all at the moment.

 

[Danjoethepirate]

You're going to spend a couple grand to get into any hobby, so go for it.
Just don't cheap out in the beginning or you'll end up spending more. Get a package deal for tank and plumbing, proclear or IM are my choices, but you do you. Then get a return pump, a powerhead or two, and a heater and lights. Then get some live or dead rock, sand or not, and get your cycle started. The only tests I would recommend at first is alkalinity and a hydrometer, floating tropic marin or the like. You can get all this for sub $5000 at the size you want. It's not cheap but its not crazy either. Then you go from there.

 

[Danjoethepirate]

And thats all new, if you go used you can get substantial deals.

 

[Michael71]

This is definitely one of those hobbies that if you are going to commit, it has to be whole hearted and planned well. I have been keeping aquariums for over 40 years. Mostly Freshwater planted, had a fowlr when i was sixteen for a couple years and stopped when my disposable income had to go to school and rent lol. Fast forward to my first reef tank at 35. i spent close to a year also planning and selecting equipment. The beauty is it does not have to break the bank if you are patient. You can find great deals on used euipment and thats what i did. I went on the larger end of nano with a 30 gallon cube that was an AIO. I scrapped all the AIO equipment and then hand picked what i wanted for skimmer. used the equipment area in the back for extra live rock. HOB skimmer, found a 250w metal halide, 75gl per day rodi, built my own canopy and stand and set up evaporative cooling. Whole setup ran about 800 bucks. It wasnt fancy but got the job done and i had a stunning lps and softy tank with clams, inverts and 6 small fish. If you have a strong desire to try it and not break the bank this isnt a bad way to go and its not as difficult as everyone says. I didnt have an ATO or a bunch of fancy controls or dosing. I used a high grade salt, did a 5 gallon water change once a week to replace trace elements. Plus if life changes or you have to relocate, its easy to break down... I have had a 15 year break due to lots of travel and am embarking on a new reef and will start my build in another month. The build is all planned out, finances not an issue and will be going 100gl display what the heck 57gl sump. The system has been in planning for a year and a half all the down to the stocking list. Again lots of planning, but that is how you are most successful in the hobby IMO. Do wish you the best of luck if you decide to pull the trigger although when it comes to reefing luck has not alot to do with it. Its the investment of time and arming yourself with as much knowledge as possible.

 

[zwalter38]

Your story of wanting to get into the hobby for years, doing research, and then backing out is exactly what I went through. I finally took the plunge about 2.5 years ago and definitely don’t regret it.

Im in the boat of going as big as you can (within reason of course). Easier to stabilize, room for more fish and or coral, more options for equipment to make your life easier. Your thought of somewhere between 60-100g I believe is a perfect starting point if it is in your budget.

I don’t feel like moving a tank of that size would be a problem for two able bodied guys. Especially with things like the suction cup glass moving tools. It’s not necessarily an awkward weight in my opinion, it’s fairly balanced and typically an easy height to pick up and set down. As for space I feel like it always takes up a bit more than expected. For me things like buckets and a few other things always seem to overflow taking up more room.

I’ve always loved the shallow frag tanks as a “tide pool” look, however they just are not as practical for a display tank for a few reasons. SPACE, different pads for different corals, lids for jumping fish can be a pain to get for a tank with that big of a opening, plus it takes away from the esthetic of the “tide pool” look. As for what I believe is the best option, the longer the tank the better. More swimming room for things like tangs, however there has to be balance with width as well. I have a 72L 24H 18W. I wish it was a bit wider than 18” but it’s not terrible.

All in all, if you’re not concerned too much about cost. Id take the plunge for a 60-100g tank. I did and love it. You also don’t need state of the art equipment right out of the gate. You can always upgrade when you find the need or want. That’s what I did and am extremely happy with that decision.

 

[GrumpyDadsWallet]

Thanks all for your time to respond, you've helped me to realize at least a couple of things right now.
1. a 40 gal breeder should still be considered. I did have eyes on doing something like this with a standard glass tank that I either drill or has the built in bulk, tossing a 10 gal under for a simple sump.
2. I should keep researching/considering this hobby, if for any reason to learn more as it's been fun and interesting. Aside from the first few weeks whereas I was confused as heck.

Again, I really appreciate the thoughtful replies. There were some personal stories that I can really relate to.

 

[RocketEngineer]

Thanks all for your time to respond, you've helped me to realize at least a couple of things right now.
1. a 40 gal breeder should still be considered. I did have eyes on doing something like this with a standard glass tank that I either drill or has the built in bulk, tossing a 10 gal under for a simple sump.
2. I should keep researching/considering this hobby, if for any reason to learn more as it's been fun and interesting. Aside from the first few weeks whereas I was confused as heck.

Again, I really appreciate the thoughtful replies. There were some personal stories that I can really relate to.

Two things that helped in my planning:
1) if something is hard to do, it won’t get done as often as needed. This includes pulling equipment for cleaning or changing filters. Design the system to be easily maintained and it will be easily maintained.
2) We are keeping WATER, not fish. The water in our tanks is like air in a house. Good air leads to healthy critters, bad air leads to problems.

Good luck.

 

[tripdad]

40 breeder is a great starter tank. Use a 20long for the sump as it will fit everything with ease. Have your local glass shop cut and polish a couple of pieces of glass you can glue in for baffles. Buy a cheap black box light off amazon to start. Will grow anything in a 40 breeder. Look at facebook marketplace, tons of deals there on used equipment. Then READ till your head hurts and dive in. The water is fine, lol.

 

[GrumpyDadsWallet]

Im struggling with lighting and understanding what to look for and what to avoid. Ive pretty much determined Im going to get a standard 75 gal, drill it and build my own stand and sump. That will be fun for me. Will I regret my glass decision? I hope so. If I do that means everything else went well and now I have first world problems.

Ive been looking for used lights to effectively grow easy soft corals, and basically I realize that almost everything out there will work, but I do want to avoid cheap amazon products that are more prone to failures, flickers, disputable wattage / par claims etc, that's another level of expertise that I dont have (determining cost/benefit of value priced lights).

I'm keeping an eye on used lighting on here in the meantime. Anything within 70 miles from my home on FB marketplace is sketchy at best.

 

[tripdad]

I am using a Viparspectra currently on 1 tank for over a year now. No problems at all. Grows shrooms, monti's, torch, frogspawn. Was just over a $100.00. I can throw it away at this point and buy another and still money ahead of paying $1100.00 only to have a fan quit, driver die etc.

 

[BryanM]

FWIW, tank weight is nothing compared to salt water weight.

78 gallons of salt water will weight approx 670 pounds. You won't use ALL of that, but its still over 3x the weight of the tank.

As for generally answering the question.... I like tanks with sumps, so you have a place to put filters/etc.... and you already stated you do not want an AIO.

I think a 60 is fine to start. I say go big or go home when someone is upgrading. If the 60 keeps you in the hobby > a year, and you want to upgrade, Im going to tell you get the most tank you can fit.... So you don't have to upgrade a 3rd time.

 

[RocketEngineer]

Im struggling with lighting and understanding what to look for and what to avoid. Ive pretty much determined Im going to get a standard 75 gal, drill it and build my own stand and sump. That will be fun for me. Will I regret my glass decision? I hope so. If I do that means everything else went well and now I have first world problems.

Ive been looking for used lights to effectively grow easy soft corals, and basically I realize that almost everything out there will work, but I do want to avoid cheap amazon products that are more prone to failures, flickers, disputable wattage / par claims etc, that's another level of expertise that I dont have (determining cost/benefit of value priced lights).

I'm keeping an eye on used lighting on here in the meantime. Anything within 70 miles from my home on FB marketplace is sketchy at best.

For just starting out, you don’t need much. Also, you don’t need to go all 48”. My last tank had 60” lights on a 72” tank with no issues. My current one only has two XR15s. The coraline algae has just about taken over one side of my tank so I figure I must be doing something right.

 

[Idech]

I did take a very long time to get into saltwater. Like 30 years. One thing you have to know is there is no such thing as a « budget reef » IMO. This hobby costs a lot.

For that reason, I wish I hadn’t gone so big (150 gallons). I started with a 12.5 gallons, then 75 gallons, then 120. 90 gallons with a sump would have been better for my wallet and peace of mind.