Add New Tang, see white spots.

[ReefStuff]

Hello Everyone!
Looking for some information based on experience from other fish keepers. I have been slowly building the Tang population in my systems and noticed a pattern of sorts. Nothing new really, but when I add a Tang, they get white spots. Only the new Tang, and only when adding a Tang. No other fish have ever developed white spots at any time, in both systems.
At 1st I was in the camp of “it’s ich, QT was not followed”. Now I’m not 100% convinced of this. My LFS QT my ordered fish for 14 days treated with copper. I then QT the fish myself again for 14 days in copper plus 7 more days with meta And Kanaplex.
My 1st Hippo I did not QT myself at 1st. Showed white spots after being introduced (QT at LFS). I removed it and put it in QT for 21 days and treated. I did this 3 times. Each time white spots would appear when re-introduced to display. Last time, I never pulled the hippo for QT. They white spots went away. Been strong for 12 months now. No other fish ever had white spots in this tank.
I started another 120 gal system, this tank has been babied and taken care of with all my knowledge, time and money. Great care was/is taken from past errors in other tanks. I populate tank, healthy fish and inverts. I introduce Yellow tang, no white spots. That fish was held in LFS for 3 months before I picked it up.
Recently got a Purple Tang, I am seeing white spots on this one fish again. No other fish have any spots. Not even the yellow Tang.
So, after all that writing, what do you guys think? Am I missing a QT step or something? Or, is it actually possible Tangs get white spots that are not ich from stress?
Should I QT this fish (14 at LFS and 21 in my care) again? The hippo never seemed to actually have ich. I’m lost, why is it the expensive fish that give me headaches lol.

ReefStuff

 

[cdemoss01]

@vetteguy53081
Tank parameters?

 

[KrisReef]

I don't QT, but copper dwell time in copper in 30 days at proper copper levels for the entire 30. Any break before 30 resets the clock for copper to work.

My Ich Magnets showed spots, I put a UV on and let it run for awhile and have "managed"-Ich without additional treatments.

GL.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello Everyone!
Looking for some information based on experience from other fish keepers. I have been slowly building the Tang population in my systems and noticed a pattern of sorts. Nothing new really, but when I add a Tang, they get white spots. Only the new Tang, and only when adding a Tang. No other fish have ever developed white spots at any time, in both systems.
At 1st I was in the camp of “it’s ich, QT was not followed”. Now I’m not 100% convinced of this. My LFS QT my ordered fish for 14 days treated with copper. I then QT the fish myself again for 14 days in copper plus 7 more days with meta And Kanaplex.
My 1st Hippo I did not QT myself at 1st. Showed white spots after being introduced (QT at LFS). I removed it and put it in QT for 21 days and treated. I did this 3 times. Each time white spots would appear when re-introduced to display. Last time, I never pulled the hippo for QT. They white spots went away. Been strong for 12 months now. No other fish ever had white spots in this tank.
I started another 120 gal system, this tank has been babied and taken care of with all my knowledge, time and money. Great care was/is taken from past errors in other tanks. I populate tank, healthy fish and inverts. I introduce Yellow tang, no white spots. That fish was held in LFS for 3 months before I picked it up.
Recently got a Purple Tang, I am seeing white spots on this one fish again. No other fish have any spots. Not even the yellow Tang.
So, after all that writing, what do you guys think? Am I missing a QT step or something? Or, is it actually possible Tangs get white spots that are not ich from stress?
Should I QT this fish (14 at LFS and 21 in my care) again? The hippo never seemed to actually have ich. I’m lost, why is it the expensive fish that give me headaches lol.

ReefStuff

Quarantine yourself for 30 days even though pre=quarantined. In addition, some tangs are susceptible to skin reaction such as Hepatus, Powder blue, powder brown, achilles, purple and tomini.
Some susceptible to ich are powder blue, chocolate, clown, purple and kole
Velvet- Achilles, yellow and orange shoulder.

Coppersafe is treatment of choice for illness mentioned at 2.25 ppm
UV has to be implemented before fish are in the tank as it will NOT erase what is preexisting

 

[ReefStuff]

Hello Everyone!
Looking for some information based on experience from other fish keepers. I have been slowly building the Tang population in my systems and noticed a pattern of sorts. Nothing new really, but when I add a Tang, they get white spots. Only the new Tang, and only when adding a Tang. No other fish have ever developed white spots at any time, in both systems.
At 1st I was in the camp of “it’s ich, QT was not followed”. Now I’m not 100% convinced of this. My LFS QT my ordered fish for 14 days treated with copper. I then QT the fish myself again for 14 days in copper plus 7 more days with meta And Kanaplex.
My 1st Hippo I did not QT myself at 1st. Showed white spots after being introduced (QT at LFS). I removed it and put it in QT for 21 days and treated. I did this 3 times. Each time white spots would appear when re-introduced to display. Last time, I never pulled the hippo for QT. They white spots went away. Been strong for 12 months now. No other fish ever had white spots in this tank.
I started another 120 gal system, this tank has been babied and taken care of with all my knowledge, time and money. Great care was/is taken from past errors in other tanks. I populate tank, healthy fish and inverts. I introduce Yellow tang, no white spots. That fish was held in LFS for 3 months before I picked it up.
Recently got a Purple Tang, I am seeing white spots on this one fish again. No other fish have any spots. Not even the yellow Tang.
So, after all that writing, what do you guys think? Am I missing a QT step or something? Or, is it actually possible Tangs get white spots that are not ich from stress?
Should I QT this fish (14 at LFS and 21 in my care) again? The hippo never seemed to actually have ich. I’m lost, why is it the expensive fish that give me headaches lol.

ReefStuff

Quarantine yourself for 30 days even though pre=quarantined. In addition, some tangs are susceptible to skin reaction such as Hepatus, Powder blue, powder brown, achilles, purple and tomini.
Some susceptible to ich are powder blue, chocolate, clown, purple and kole
Velvet- Achilles, yellow and orange shoulder.

Coppersafe is treatment of choice for illness mentioned at 2.25 ppm
UV has to be implemented before fish are in the tank as it will NOT erase what is preexisting

Tank:
Temp - 78.3
Alk - 8.2 (Hannah)
Sal - 1.026 (Hand held)
Cal - 420 (Salifert)
Mag - 1390 (Salifert)
N - 5 or 10 (bad eyes, Red Sea kit)
P - .05 (Hannah)

36 watt UV been in use since 30 days prior to Purple Tang being introduced.

30 days, ok. No issue with that. But would like some clarification. If the LFS QT with copper for 14 days, I show up and fish is pulled directly from QT copper system. Less than 15 minute transportation to my home and into my copper QT system. Sits in that for 14 more days. My last seven days are the “plex” treatments.

Another wrote about having no breaks on copper treatment, or it starts the clock again. I understand a day or so without copper and restarting a clock. But my situation is 15 minutes. And technically still in copper water in the bag so, no break. Is this wrong? What determines the break being too long?

I have the patients for QT, but I also do like to waste time and I try to make everything I do efficient. If I need 30 days, plus 14 at LFS and 7 for Plex, so be it. But that seems excessive to me. Is it for my situation?

I am going to research these other issues mentioned Tangs are susceptible to as well.

I find it odd that only one fish will get it in a tank filled with fish. Even another Tang. Are the slime coats on other fish really able to defend 100% against ich?
In my freshwater tanks in the past (different, I know) if one got ich, all the fish got ich. Is it common is SW tanks for single fish to catch ich and not effect any others long term? This has happened in 2 completely seperate systems also.

Thanks again!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Tank:
Temp - 78.3
Alk - 8.2 (Hannah)
Sal - 1.026 (Hand held)
Cal - 420 (Salifert)
Mag - 1390 (Salifert)
N - 5 or 10 (bad eyes, Red Sea kit)
P - .05 (Hannah)

36 watt UV been in use since 30 days prior to Purple Tang being introduced.

30 days, ok. No issue with that. But would like some clarification. If the LFS QT with copper for 14 days, I show up and fish is pulled directly from QT copper system. Less than 15 minute transportation to my home and into my copper QT system. Sits in that for 14 more days. My last seven days are the “plex” treatments.

Another wrote about having no breaks on copper treatment, or it starts the clock again. I understand a day or so without copper and restarting a clock. But my situation is 15 minutes. And technically still in copper water in the bag so, no break. Is this wrong? What determines the break being too long?

I have the patients for QT, but I also do like to waste time and I try to make everything I do efficient. If I need 30 days, plus 14 at LFS and 7 for Plex, so be it. But that seems excessive to me. Is it for my situation?

I am going to research these other issues mentioned Tangs are susceptible to as well.

I find it odd that only one fish will get it in a tank filled with fish. Even another Tang. Are the slime coats on other fish really able to defend 100% against ich?
In my freshwater tanks in the past (different, I know) if one got ich, all the fish got ich. Is it common is SW tanks for single fish to catch ich and not effect any others long term? This has happened in 2 completely seperate systems also.

Thanks again!

No, you cant use their 14 and your 14 and add them. It has to be a continuous 30 days. When they say they quarantined fish, most stores will use a level of 1.5ppm which is below the level of 2.0 when copper tarts to take effect. If you are referring to hydroplex, its a waste of time. Go rather with praziPro dosing at 85% of recommended and apply initial dosage known as an interval lasting for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
Use airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite. If running a skimmer, leave cup off first 24 hrs as skimmer will go nuts from the glycol solution in Prazi and the UV unit first 24-48 hours as it takes this long for prazi to take effect

 

[ReefStuff]

Tank:
Temp - 78.3
Alk - 8.2 (Hannah)
Sal - 1.026 (Hand held)
Cal - 420 (Salifert)
Mag - 1390 (Salifert)
N - 5 or 10 (bad eyes, Red Sea kit)
P - .05 (Hannah)

36 watt UV been in use since 30 days prior to Purple Tang being introduced.

30 days, ok. No issue with that. But would like some clarification. If the LFS QT with copper for 14 days, I show up and fish is pulled directly from QT copper system. Less than 15 minute transportation to my home and into my copper QT system. Sits in that for 14 more days. My last seven days are the “plex” treatments.

Another wrote about having no breaks on copper treatment, or it starts the clock again. I understand a day or so without copper and restarting a clock. But my situation is 15 minutes. And technically still in copper water in the bag so, no break. Is this wrong? What determines the break being too long?

I have the patients for QT, but I also do like to waste time and I try to make everything I do efficient. If I need 30 days, plus 14 at LFS and 7 for Plex, so be it. But that seems excessive to me. Is it for my situation?

I am going to research these other issues mentioned Tangs are susceptible to as well.

I find it odd that only one fish will get it in a tank filled with fish. Even another Tang. Are the slime coats on other fish really able to defend 100% against ich?
In my freshwater tanks in the past (different, I know) if one got ich, all the fish got ich. Is it common is SW tanks for single fish to catch ich and not effect any others long term? This has happened in 2 completely seperate systems also.

Thanks again!

No, you cant use their 14 and your 14 and add them. It has to be a continuous 30 days. When they say they quarantined fish, most stores will use a level of 1.5ppm which is below the level of 2.0 when copper tarts to take effect. If you are referring to hydroplex, its a waste of time. Go rather with praziPro dosing at 85% of recommended and apply initial dosage known as an interval lasting for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
Use airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite. If running a skimmer, leave cup off first 24 hrs as skimmer will go nuts from the glycol solution in Prazi and the UV unit first 24-48 hours as it takes this long for prazi to take effect

Thanks for info,
I must have a mental block going on lol. I must ask again. I am hearing you, but can’t seem to understand the “break”.
Allow me to explain my ignorance, feel free to tell me point blank. Please don’t take this as argumentative, I’m just trying to fully understand.

I know the owner of the LFS. Actually know him. He uses a Hannah checker and sets the QT at 2.5ppm copper. I bring my copper water to him to verify I am at 2.5 also. We even match tank parameters to make transferring fish/coral as stress free as possible. It’s not at 1.5ppm in the store. The salinity is not lowered to hide issues either. His whole store (even QT) is 1.026.

I change out my QT water every 3 days like that old BRS video showed. Replacing with identical treated water of course. Well, that process has a break of 5-10 min each time I change the water. Fish is put in a holding container, tank water swapped and fish put back in. This has worked flawlessly for me. Maybe i am just getting lucky?
This seems almost identical to my fish pickup. Fish is in 2.5 ppm water at store, placed in bag with 2.5ppm water. Removed from 2.5ppm bag water and placed into 2.5ppm tank water within 15 minutes. The store is literally 1 mile from my home. I am having a hard time seeing the break and a reason to start the 30 days over with this? Seems like my QT should fail as well, no? Is it really a 5-15 minute break will destroy all progress?

I could totally see 30 days if the fish came from another source. I guess should ask this question also. Have any of you been told flat out lies in the LFS to simply offload the item?
“Yea man, 14 days at 2.5, 1.026, Purple Tang is $200, have a good day” when in reality it is what you are describing? 1.5ppm in low salinity?
I trust him, like I said I know him. But clearly I am not testing his store tanks to verify the claims that I just wrote as gospel essentially. I have stood there and watched him test the copper in QT as we BS about football though…. I don’t think he is flat out lying. What are your experiences at LFS?

Thank you!!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks for info,
I must have a mental block going on lol. I must ask again. I am hearing you, but can’t seem to understand the “break”.
Allow me to explain my ignorance, feel free to tell me point blank. Please don’t take this as argumentative, I’m just trying to fully understand.

I know the owner of the LFS. Actually know him. He uses a Hannah checker and sets the QT at 2.5ppm copper. I bring my copper water to him to verify I am at 2.5 also. We even match tank parameters to make transferring fish/coral as stress free as possible. It’s not at 1.5ppm in the store. The salinity is not lowered to hide issues either. His whole store (even QT) is 1.026.

I change out my QT water every 3 days like that old BRS video showed. Replacing with identical treated water of course. Well, that process has a break of 5-10 min each time I change the water. Fish is put in a holding container, tank water swapped and fish put back in. This has worked flawlessly for me. Maybe i am just getting lucky?
This seems almost identical to my fish pickup. Fish is in 2.5 ppm water at store, placed in bag with 2.5ppm water. Removed from 2.5ppm bag water and placed into 2.5ppm tank water within 15 minutes. The store is literally 1 mile from my home. I am having a hard time seeing the break and a reason to start the 30 days over with this? Seems like my QT should fail as well, no? Is it really a 5-15 minute break will destroy all progress?

I could totally see 30 days if the fish came from another source. I guess should ask this question also. Have any of you been told flat out lies in the LFS to simply offload the item?
“Yea man, 14 days at 2.5, 1.026, Purple Tang is $200, have a good day” when in reality it is what you are describing? 1.5ppm in low salinity?
I trust him, like I said I know him. But clearly I am not testing his store tanks to verify the claims that I just wrote as gospel essentially. I have stood there and watched him test the copper in QT as we BS about football though…. I don’t think he is flat out lying. What are your experiences at LFS?

Thank you!!

I know many owners and also owned my own LFS for 12+ years. As most stores utilize a shared system, they tend to treat therapuetic level , not treatment to reduce rick to copper sensetive specimens and also many cant tie up tanks for 30 days. We have Dr Reef who extensively quarantines his fish and yet have seen while not many - Ich outbreaks. Disease is on us, not the fish.
Ill Have @Jay Hemdal weigh in with his thoughts

 

[ReefStuff]

Thanks for info,
I must have a mental block going on lol. I must ask again. I am hearing you, but can’t seem to understand the “break”.
Allow me to explain my ignorance, feel free to tell me point blank. Please don’t take this as argumentative, I’m just trying to fully understand.

I know the owner of the LFS. Actually know him. He uses a Hannah checker and sets the QT at 2.5ppm copper. I bring my copper water to him to verify I am at 2.5 also. We even match tank parameters to make transferring fish/coral as stress free as possible. It’s not at 1.5ppm in the store. The salinity is not lowered to hide issues either. His whole store (even QT) is 1.026.

I change out my QT water every 3 days like that old BRS video showed. Replacing with identical treated water of course. Well, that process has a break of 5-10 min each time I change the water. Fish is put in a holding container, tank water swapped and fish put back in. This has worked flawlessly for me. Maybe i am just getting lucky?
This seems almost identical to my fish pickup. Fish is in 2.5 ppm water at store, placed in bag with 2.5ppm water. Removed from 2.5ppm bag water and placed into 2.5ppm tank water within 15 minutes. The store is literally 1 mile from my home. I am having a hard time seeing the break and a reason to start the 30 days over with this? Seems like my QT should fail as well, no? Is it really a 5-15 minute break will destroy all progress?

I could totally see 30 days if the fish came from another source. I guess should ask this question also. Have any of you been told flat out lies in the LFS to simply offload the item?
“Yea man, 14 days at 2.5, 1.026, Purple Tang is $200, have a good day” when in reality it is what you are describing? 1.5ppm in low salinity?
I trust him, like I said I know him. But clearly I am not testing his store tanks to verify the claims that I just wrote as gospel essentially. I have stood there and watched him test the copper in QT as we BS about football though…. I don’t think he is flat out lying. What are your experiences at LFS?

Thank you!!

I know many owners and also owned my own LFS for 12+ years. As most stores utilize a shared system, they tend to treat therapuetic level , not treatment to reduce rick to copper sensetive specimens and also many cant tie up tanks for 30 days. We have Dr Reef who extensively quarantines his fish and yet have seen while not many - Ich outbreaks. Disease is on us, not the fish.
Ill Have @Jay Hemdal weigh in with his thoughts

Thank you for the time, I appreciate it.

Would the fact my LFS has a completely separate room of tanks strictly for QT add any level of comfort for this? Based on your experience and comment about tying up tanks? In this case, that is not any concern.
To be frank, I was told by him about all these methods LFS use to say, “mask” issues and not actually treat them. That is the point of his QT room, to do it….right, I guess is the word here. I can also walk in and see it all anytime he is open. So, again. For you personally, would that make any difference to you?

But I am getting the vibe here, I’m not losing you. Clearly it’s best to do it myself regardless for peace of mind. Now that I am into the realm of Acro and more expensive fish, it’s well worth the time.

Thank you again

ReefStuff

 

[Idech]

IME the fish that gets the ich is the one being stressed; in this case, the new one. The other fish don’t get it because they are not under stress, or at least not as much as the new comer.

Stress lowers immunity.