Added a 3rd AI Blade and Acro Polyps Receded

[Whitearmy61]

Sunrise at 7 and ramp up to that over 90 minutes. Then ramps down over 90 minutes to sunset at 6.

You could try to limit the ramp up to 10 mins each end. That way instead of 8 hrs peak but with a 3 hr ramp up/down you'd have the 8 hr peak with 20 mins ramp up/down and lower intensity for the remaining 2 hrs 40 mins.
This is effectively what I have done and it sorted out my issues which were very similar to yours.

 

[kingranch2003]

You guys are all correct for sure on tank age. I have a maintenance girl for the tank and she has said that to me a million times. That being said, patience is not a strong suit of mine lol. Anyway, the acros were looking quite good (at least comparitively) before the new light and pump went in a couple days ago and there was a noticeable contraction after, so I was just curious whether the new light or pump could be the issue.

To answer a couple of the questions....
1. I am dosing that stuff to add what the corals need that they may not be getting in such a young tank. There is a specific reason for each. Here they are. Prevention of Flatworms and Cyano, Trace elements, aminos, etc...

250 mL Korallen-Zucht Flatworm Stop

500 mL Korallen-Zucht Coral Booster

10 mL Pohl’s Coral Vitalizer - Korallen-Zucht

100 mL Coral's Love - Korallen-Zucht

Trace Element Complex (500 mL) - Korallen-Zucht

Activated Carbon (1L) - Korallen-Zucht

10 mL Cyano Clean - Korallen-Zucht

50 mL AcroGlow - Korallen-Zucht

2. The tank is super young. For the age it is actually doing quite well. All the corals are doing great, but the acros are basically not dying, but not really growing. A few of them have encrusted and are starting to grow more sticks. Those are some of the first ones I added like 2 months ago. So I guess that is fine.
3. Why stop dosing microbacter 7?
4. Thank you for your feedback.

A maintenance girl!?

 

[141918]

Hi All,

I added a 3rd AI Blade light a couple days ago. I had 2 Grows and added a Glow. I noticed that acro polyp extension has receded since then. That being said, it was never great to begin with. Seems like the acros that I add to the tank always start out with good extension and then gradually lose it over a few days/weeks. Regardless, the last couple days have been worse than normal. Tank parameters are below. Any feedback would be appreciated. And also, could the addiotional light be the issue with the polyps receding and if so, what should I do about it now that it has been a few days.


- Gross water volume of complete system (incl. sump etc.) -250 gallons
- Carbon reactor with KZ carbon.
- UV- 40 watt system
- Pumps- 2 Orbit 4 wavemakers, 2 Nero 7 pumps.
- Reefer DC 600 Skimmer
- NO3- 5ish. PO4- .05ish
- Ca- 410. Alk- 8.2. Mg 1500
- Red Sea Reef Mat Filter
- 3 AI Blades. 2 Grow, 1 Glow
- 10 torches. 5 Hammers, various zoas and duncans. 15ish various acros. Random monit's, stylos, acans, etc....
- Tank is 4 months old
- Dosing0 Ca, Alk, AB+, Microbacter7, Korellen Zucht trace element and coral supplements (8 of them)

Blades can produce a ton of par if cranked up. I would definitely check the par readings. I’m getting 220 to 250 with 1 single blade on a 16 inch deep tank about 10 inches below the light. No more than 70% turned up. With 3 lights, it could possible burn corals for sure if turned too high.

 

[ElementSquaredLLC]

A maintenance girl!?

LOL. The tank is at my office so I can expense the maintenance.

 

[BeanAnimal]

My goodness who is teaching you folks to dump all of that crap into your tanks, no wonder you don’t have good “polyp extension” you have chemical soup, not water.

People here are throwing ideas against the wall from left field. Nobody bothered to tell you to stop pouring the chem lab into your tank.

 

[Whitearmy61]

My goodness who is teaching you folks to dump all of that crap into your tanks, no wonder you don’t have good “polyp extension” you have chemical soup, not water.

People here are throwing ideas against the wall from left field. Nobody bothered to tell you to stop pouring the chem lab into your tank.

For informational purposes, could you offer advice on which "chemicals" aren't required? As I see it, water is made up of chemicals and in order to "keep water" the chemical elements need to be replaced. I'd agree that some of the dosed products on the op's list might not be required but assuming they're at the required dosing level shouldn't be detrimental?
In terms of the "left field" advice, what would yours be as with respect, you haven't really offered any other than to stop pouring the chemical lab in but I'd assuming a good portion of this is required to keep water? What, in your opinion, should the op hold off from in their dosing regime?

 

[BeanAnimal]

As I see it, water is made up of chemicals and in order to "keep water" the chemical elements need to be replaced.

I think the contextual use of chemical here was rather clear, let’s not have the silly “everything is a chemical” conversation. Required? Salt, Alk, Calcium, Magnesium and minor trace elements.

I'd agree that some of the dosed products on the op's list might not be required but assuming they're at the required dosing level shouldn't be detrimental?

Says who and by what logic? What are the required dosing level? Side effects and long term effects on biome? General water chemistry? Etc. What is actually in each of those products and what does it do? Prophylactic treatment for flatworms and cyano?

What does the never ending dose of bacteria do to the biome and is it displacing or normal bacterial mechanisms found in a healthy reef? What bacteria is actually in the product, could it have pathogens in it (rhetorical)?.

In terms of the "left field" advice, what would yours be as with respect, you haven't really offered any other than to stop pouring the chemical lab in but I'd assuming a good portion of this is required to keep water? What, in your opinion, should the op hold off from in their dosing regime?

Again, I think my advice and context was rather clear. Aside from that, is polyp extension an actual coral health metric?

Is a 4 month old tank, with so much going on expected to have explosive coral growth and “polyp extension” or are there other things going on that are not yet stable and are the non-standard additives helping or harming this process?

You ask what my actual advice was? I gave it. Occam’s razor. Stop pouring so many products into the tank and let the system mature naturally. The system deviates from countless thousands of successful reefs, so my advice would be to do what is proven, not what is marketed on the side of a bottle.

Other thoughts? New light and pump, it takes time for coral to adjust. Was the light ramped up over a days or weeks or just turned on giving 30% more intensity on day one. New pump, different flow patterns? So yes, I question advice from “left field”, well meaning or not.

 

[Whitearmy61]

I would assume that the manufacturers of the product would be able to safely inform of the correct dosage considering they have developed the product, in reality many reefers add things to their systems at the manufacturers guidelines and are successful.

In terms of pe in an sps coral deteriorating after adding more light would be a good indicator of stress to a coral in fairness. Whilst I agree that some of the dosing regime may or may not be needed the fact that the last added item was followed by issues could be a good starting point.

All I was asking was to be a little more specific in your advice, you suggested to "stop pouring the chemical lab into your tank" and whilst this is your advice it's not specific for the op to gain any relevant advice. What dosing are you referring to? Should the op cut out their alk, ca, mg etc or are you meaning the cyano, flatworm and microbacter for example?

It seems too easy sometimes to "offer advice" but without actually offering anything other than a comment which could be misleading. The op can take any advice they wish, whether they adjust their dosing, adjust their lighting or look for possible contaminants etc but surely they are look for actual advise not "stop pouring the chemical lab into your tank"

I was under the impression that the forum is for help and advice?

Oh, and to add, I'm not looking for a "gun fight" I'm only looking to aid the op with their question better

 

[BeanAnimal]

I would assume that the manufacturers of the product would be able to safely inform of the correct dosage considering they have developed the product, in reality many reefers add things to their systems at the manufacturers guidelines and are successful.

Your assumptions, reality, need, and effect may not align. This hobby is full of snake-oil, products that do more harm than good, products that create side effects, and no shortage of bad advice or questionable methods. Broadly applying “many reefers add things” logic is application of fallacy.

In terms of pe in an sps coral deteriorating after adding more light would be a good indicator of stress to a coral in fairness. Whilst I agree that some of the dosing regime may or may not be needed the fact that the last added item was followed by issues could be a good starting point.

OP mentioned two issues. Firstly, general feeling that coral were not doing as well as they should, even prior to new light and pump. Secondly minor “retraction” after adding light. I have addressed both, but skipped the retraction in my first comment, as it is likely irrelevant and simply due to the rapid increase in light and flow.

All I was asking was to be a little more specific in your advice, you suggested to "stop pouring the chemical lab into your tank" and whilst this is your advice it's not specific for the op to gain any relevant advice. What dosing are you referring to? Should the op cut out their alk, ca, mg etc or are you meaning the cyano, flatworm and microbacter for example?

The answer is self revealing, but you already know that. You wish to have an insanely pedantic argument that serves no purpose. It was evident when you tried to point play on the semantics of “chemicals” when the meaning was clear to everyone, including you, who bristled at it and opted to highlight it to argue.

Oh, and to add, I'm not looking for a "gun fight"

Of course you are.

 

[stE26wy14]

My goodness who is teaching you folks to dump all of that crap into your tanks, no wonder you don’t have good “polyp extension” you have chemical soup, not water.

People here are throwing ideas against the wall from left field. Nobody bothered to tell you to stop pouring the chem lab into your tank.

 

[BeanAnimal]

You are too young to be watching shows like that Stewy.

 

[Whitearmy61]

The answer is self revealing, but you already know that. You wish to have an insanely pedantic argument that serves no purpose. It was evident when you tried to point play on the semantics of “chemicals” when the meaning was clear to everyone, including you, who bristled at it and opted to highlight it to argue.

In fairness, clear to you and I but not everyone. Also, I am definately not looking for an argument.

Of course you are.

Infact, not at all.

The way I look at it is, there are plenty of experienced minds within forums and there are also the inexperienced that seek to further their knowledge by taking the advice of the more experienced. Information is the key to learning, without information the learning is reliant on trial and error until information is found.

Enjoy your day.

 

[SPSDomination]

Honestly u can save a ton of money by not adding all of those Zeovit products. A tanks maturity is based on its ability to handle your bioload and stability. You only achieve that with time. Simply keeping up on your water changes will replace trace elements. Less is more my friend. Keep things as basic and stable as you can.

 

[stE26wy14]

You are too young to be watching shows like that Stewy.

wdym..
im 15, and watched it over the summer
im not too young

 

[BeanAnimal]

In fairness, clear to you and I but not everyone. Also, I am definately not looking for an argument.

I don't think any reasonable person would take "Stop pouring chemicals" into the tank to mean Alk, Calcium or Magnesium --the major IONS that are part of natural saltwater.

Trace elements fall into the same category of essential ions in NSW. While essential, not all products are created the same, as well as many traces are part of regular water changes. So if there is any ambiguity in my advice, maybe there, but that is a stretch.

The rest of the stuff being poured in are two "removers" that are not part of a typical water column in a reef aquarium or the ocean. The Cyano product is a bacterial product that interferes with other bacteria as its mechanism of action. The flatworm product is listed as "natural" whatever that means and "It works by altering the coral's slime layer".

The other four products are "magic in a bottle" supplements with broad claims about their benefits -- containing various "amino acids, bacteria, and carbohydrates and more trace elements like "calcium, carbonate, magnesium, strontium, iodine, iron, and molybdenum" and goodness knows what else.

So the OP is pouring all kinds of products into the tank, most of which can't be tested for. Many contain bacteria that compete with other bacteria and bacterial processes in the system, and many contain trace elements which are not being tested for, or for that matter the effects known, good or bad.

So baed on a labels, marketing and some advice from somewhere, all of this stuff is magically balanced and creating an optimal environment for coral health?

All things being the same, what differs here from the vast majority of healthy systems... Or, in reverse (I used Occam's Razor) to point to the simplest explanation, as well as applying a bit of logic and experience.

Take it or leave it for what you paid for it :)

 

[reefer2/19/24]

Hi All,

I added a 3rd AI Blade light a couple days ago. I had 2 Grows and added a Glow. I noticed that acro polyp extension has receded since then. That being said, it was never great to begin with. Seems like the acros that I add to the tank always start out with good extension and then gradually lose it over a few days/weeks. Regardless, the last couple days have been worse than normal. Tank parameters are below. Any feedback would be appreciated. And also, could the addiotional light be the issue with the polyps receding and if so, what should I do about it now that it has been a few days.


- Gross water volume of complete system (incl. sump etc.) -250 gallons
- Carbon reactor with KZ carbon.
- UV- 40 watt system
- Pumps- 2 Orbit 4 wavemakers, 2 Nero 7 pumps.
- Reefer DC 600 Skimmer
- NO3- 5ish. PO4- .05ish
- Ca- 410. Alk- 8.2. Mg 1500
- Red Sea Reef Mat Filter
- 3 AI Blades. 2 Grow, 1 Glow
- 10 torches. 5 Hammers, various zoas and duncans. 15ish various acros. Random monit's, stylos, acans, etc....
- Tank is 4 months old
- Dosing0 Ca, Alk, AB+, Microbacter7, Korellen Zucht trace element and coral supplements (8 of them)

Too much par.

 

[ryshark]

Check for Red Bugs or similar Acropora pest.

Agreed. Especially if there are Tenuis, check for white bugs.

 

[Faurek]

Feed more, I bet you are not feeding the micro organisms, that is a big tank, can't see 3 ai blades being too much. Feed it all, vitamins, aminos, mysis, powder food.