Added a chiller need help with pump

[RedG]

Hi guys, I was finally able to get a chiller. I was testing it for about a week before they came to install the cabinet in the picture which will be the location for it.

While testing I had it on the floor next to the tank and was working perfectly love how quiet it is. It is the Teco TK1000. According to BRS the recommended pump for it is the Sicce Syncra Silent 2.0; however, I went with the 3.0 and during the week of testing worked fine but not that much flow would come out on the display tank.
I called BRS and asked if I should go with the 5.0 instead and they wouldn't recommend it because the chiller will work best at low pressure.

Now that I have moved the chiller up to the desired location the Sicce Syncra Silent 3.0 seems to get the water up there, but very little water coming down (nothing coming out in the display) Obviously no enough pressure since it has to go up 10FT of hose, and 10 more FT coming back down.
Attached is a diagram of the piping and head pressure I calculated which seems to be 26FT.

I have to get a pump that could take care of this, DC will be better, but will consider AC submersible as I wanted to be in the sump and as quiet as possible since it is in the living room.

I will also be adding an APEX which has me now considering the COR-20 that can handle 20FT max head, or Sicce Syncra SDC 9.0 that can handle 23FT max head.

What are your opinions on which pump will be better for this application? or if you think there is a better choice please share.

Thank you for your help
Jose

 

[UncommonSense]

You're on the right track, and I like where your head’s at! (Pun intended!)

There is an important component missing from your head height calculation, though!

— head height (aka: well, lift) is purely a measure of how far water is being pumped vertically out of a body of water! That is, pumping water horizontally or downwards doesn’t add to the required well height!

In this situation, you’d be only measuring from the sump water line to somewhere near the top of the chiller unit as your total well height! — the U of tube/pipe on the chiller outlet is what’s complicating things… if the plumbing has air in it, your pump now has to force that air back down X feet, effectively underwater, in order to purge the line of air! (I believe this might be where you’re getting confused; the chiller outlet tubing creates artificial head pressure when not purged of air!)

I think you should temporarily try having the chiller outlet drain straight down into the display, for troubleshooting purposes! — you can likely use a pump with around 8-10ft max well height and still get flow this way!

 

[RedG]

You're on the right track, and I like where your head’s at! (Pun intended!)

There is an important component missing from your head height calculation, though!

— head height (aka: well, lift) is purely a measure of how far water is being pumped vertically out of a body of water! That is, pumping water horizontally or downwards doesn’t add to the required well height!

In this situation, you’d be only measuring from the sump water line to somewhere near the top of the chiller unit as your total well height! — the U of tube/pipe on the chiller outlet is what’s complicating things… if the plumbing has air in it, your pump now has to force that air back down X feet, effectively underwater, in order to purge the line of air! (I believe this might be where you’re getting confused; the chiller outlet tubing creates artificial head pressure when not purged of air!)

I think you should temporarily try having the chiller outlet drain straight down into the display, for troubleshooting purposes! — you can likely use a pump with around 8-10ft max well height and still get flow this way!

Thanks for the explanation in that case 10FT would be eliminated from the calculation.

You mentioned another point which is trapped air. While moving the chiller to the position is in now, my dad lifted the pump for a second out of the water and I saw air in the line and immediately shut it off. It was literally a second or two.
Could this be the air casing the trouble?

If so should I disconnect the out hose and let it drain by gravity to the tank?
How about the in line from the pump up to the chiller, disconnect as well, or can stay?

 

[UncommonSense]

Could this be the air casing the trouble?

This could be the air, or even just air in what is effectively a radiator inside the chiller or associated tubing which hadn’t “burped” out of the system yet!

If so should I disconnect the out hose and let it drain by gravity to the tank?

I would just drain out of the chiller straight into the tank using a length of hose/tube, at least for now while you troubleshoot! —haha letting air/water spray out of the chiller uncontrolled back into the tank might make a mess!

How about the in line from the pump up to the chiller, disconnect as well, or can stay?

These can stay, the pump is pushing water up into the chiller, this water will start to push air through the system and out the hose/tubing at the chiller outlet!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi guys, I was finally able to get a chiller. I was testing it for about a week before they came to install the cabinet in the picture which will be the location for it.

While testing I had it on the floor next to the tank and was working perfectly love how quiet it is. It is the Teco TK1000. According to BRS the recommended pump for it is the Sicce Syncra Silent 2.0; however, I went with the 3.0 and during the week of testing worked fine but not that much flow would come out on the display tank.
I called BRS and asked if I should go with the 5.0 instead and they wouldn't recommend it because the chiller will work best at low pressure.

Now that I have moved the chiller up to the desired location the Sicce Syncra Silent 3.0 seems to get the water up there, but very little water coming down (nothing coming out in the display) Obviously no enough pressure since it has to go up 10FT of hose, and 10 more FT coming back down.
Attached is a diagram of the piping and head pressure I calculated which seems to be 26FT.

I have to get a pump that could take care of this, DC will be better, but will consider AC submersible as I wanted to be in the sump and as quiet as possible since it is in the living room.

I will also be adding an APEX which has me now considering the COR-20 that can handle 20FT max head, or Sicce Syncra SDC 9.0 that can handle 23FT max head.

What are your opinions on which pump will be better for this application? or if you think there is a better choice please share.

Thank you for your help
Jose

I have a TECO 2000 and use a Sicce 4.0 but my line length is only 3 feet.

 

[RedG]

Could this be the air casing the trouble?

This could be the air, or even just air in what is effectively a radiator inside the chiller or associated tubing which hadn’t “burped” out of the system yet!

If so should I disconnect the out hose and let it drain by gravity to the tank?

I would just drain out of the chiller straight into the tank using a length of hose/tube, at least for now while you troubleshoot! —haha letting air/water spray out of the chiller uncontrolled back into the tank might make a mess!

How about the in line from the pump up to the chiller, disconnect as well, or can stay?

These can stay, the pump is pushing water up into the chiller, this water will start to push air through the system and out the hose/tubing at the chiller outlet!

Thank for your help I will try this in the morning tomorrow. I shut it off since I didn’t know, but I’ll will set it tomorrow as you mentioned and watch it the whole day while I install the Apex and the rest of the things

I really appreciate your feedback !

 

[UncommonSense]

10FT would be eliminated from the calculation.

In fact, when the U shaped hose/pipe is full of water only, you can eliminate the entire thing from the calculation!

— if all plumbing is full of water, you can go up and down with it as many times as you want, the only appreciable measurement is the sump water line, vertically to the highest spot in the system where water is being pumped!

In this case, those look like 12ft ceilings; let’s say the sump water line is 2ft off the floor, and the chiller’s highest point is 2ft below the ceiling; this means you’re actually only performing 8ft of total vertical well height!

 

[RedG]

10FT would be eliminated from the calculation.

In fact, when the U shaped hose/pipe is full of water only, you can eliminate the entire thing from the calculation!

— if all plumbing is full of water, you can go up and down with it as many times as you want, the only appreciable measurement is the sump water line, vertically to the highest spot in the system where water is being pumped!

In this case, those look like 12ft ceilings; let’s say the sump water line is 2ft off the floor, and the chiller’s highest point is 2ft below the ceiling; this means you’re actually only performing 8ft of total vertical well height!

So I did the trouble shooting by disconnecting the out line from the plumbing and just let the out line straight to the sump and it defiantly has the pressure, it was coming out normally.

So I hooked back up to the plumbing and same thing since like no pressure nothing coming out in the display tank.
When I shut the pump off and disconnected the line air definitely got in, so I’m guessing I just have to let it purge itself out?

 

[UncommonSense]

So I did the trouble shooting by disconnecting the out line from the plumbing and just let the out line straight to the sump and it defiantly has the pressure, it was coming out normally.

So I hooked back up to the plumbing and same thing since like no pressure nothing coming out in the display tank.
When I shut the pump off and disconnected the line air definitely got in, so I’m guessing I just have to let it purge itself out?

Yup! Air in the line the pump has to force nearly 10ft down against water pressure is creating “artificial head” on the pump!

The simplest solution to this issue (while retaining existing plumbing layout) is a fairly ugly one… a T fitting on the chiller outlet with one side going down to your plumbing, and one side going up a few feet to an air vent… — this lets the plumbing “burp” out air through the new vent hose, at the highest point in the plumbing!

— The cleanest solution would be to replumb the outlet of the chiller to simply go down to the tank, and over the rim… omitting the large U shaped segment of hose and pipe!

— it’s also worth noting that 5/8” line is going to provide some amount of flow restriction with the larger pumps that can do 10ft of well height! — you’ll get better chiller performance/higher flow if you use 3/4” ID, or 1” ID hose! (This will not affect the air purge issue, mind you… it’s relatively unrelated!)

 

[RedG]

I figured it was the air after you pointed out, so I did this and is working lovely now.

I put it to drain to the sump clearing out the air, then I pinched the line with the pump on so no air will travel up. Hooked up to the plumbing and removed the clip. Flowing fine now.

Thanks for all your help man, I was going crazy and probably was gonna buy another expensive pump, but I decided to post.
Love this community.

 

[UncommonSense]

I figured it was the air after you pointed out, so I did this and is working lovely now.

I put it to drain to the sump clearing out the air, then I pinched the line with the pump on so no air will travel up. Hooked up to the plumbing and removed the clip. Flowing fine now.

Thanks for all your help man, I was going crazy and probably was gonna buy another expensive pump, but I decided to post.
Love this community.

An alternative option is attaching a “aqua lifter” vacuum pump to the highest point in the plumbing, allowing it to constantly pull water from there and dump it back into the display tank!

— this would pull any future air bubbles out of the plumbing, preventing air from stopping water flow again, thus making the chiller completely freeze the stagnant water still in it; potentially cracking the chiller’s internal heat exchanger (radiator)!

 

[RedG]

I figured it was the air after you pointed out, so I did this and is working lovely now.

I put it to drain to the sump clearing out the air, then I pinched the line with the pump on so no air will travel up. Hooked up to the plumbing and removed the clip. Flowing fine now.

Thanks for all your help man, I was going crazy and probably was gonna buy another expensive pump, but I decided to post.
Love this community.

An alternative option is attaching a “aqua lifter” vacuum pump to the highest point in the plumbing, allowing it to constantly pull water from there and dump it back into the sump!

— this would pull any future air bubbles out of the plumbing, preventing air from stopping water flow again, thus making the chiller completely freeze the stagnant water still in it; potentially cracking the chiller’s internal heat exchanger (radiator)!

Gonna look into that vacuum pump sound like an insurance policy. Would that be connected on the in or out line at the highest point?

 

[UncommonSense]

Gonna look into that vacuum pump sound like an insurance policy. Would that be connected on the in or out line at the highest point?

Probably the outlet line, at the highest point!

— these aquarium vacuum pumps are cheap chinese hobby products; back when HOB overflows were more popular, many people replaced the associated vacuum pump yearly as a safety precaution!

https://www.saltwateraquarium.com/k...cs/?searchid=7956034&search_query=Aqua+lifter