Advice needed, how to move forward from velvet/brook outbreak

[salty_noob]

Treat with copper yes but do not ramp slowly but rather get to treatment level within 24 hours

Thank you, both Q-tanks are now at the required level, still have a couple of fish to catch, traps are on the way.

Question regarding the fallow period, can I assume this is the perfect time to introduce any inverts? As they cannot go through copper QT on the way in, if I put them in at the beginning of the fallow period anything bad that comes with them will be long dead before the fish get back into the display tank?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you, both Q-tanks are now at the required level, still have a couple of fish to catch, traps are on the way.

Question regarding the fallow period, can I assume this is the perfect time to introduce any inverts? As they cannot go through copper QT on the way in, if I put them in at the beginning of the fallow period anything bad that comes with them will be long dead before the fish get back into the display tank?

Agree- dont go nuts but an opportune time to add coral and inverts to display

 

[K9Fish]

Agree- dont go nuts but an opportune time to add coral and inverts to display

If you add corals and inverts during the fallow period does it reset the 6-8 week fallow period to day 1?

 

[vetteguy53081]

If you add corals and inverts during the fallow period does it reset the 6-8 week fallow period to day 1?

No. Fish will reset it.

 

[K9Fish]

No. Fish will reset it.

Is there a safe time frame in days or weeks before the end of your fallow period to add corals and inverts? I’m assuming adding them a few days before your fallow period is up would be a very bad idea. I’m currently in the fallow period and don‘t want to screw up.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Is there a safe time frame in days or weeks before the end of your fallow period to add corals and inverts? I’m assuming adding them a few days before your fallow period is up would be a very bad idea. I’m currently in the fallow period and don‘t want to screw up.

Add them at any time as long as water quality is acceptable

 

[Jay Hemdal]

If you add corals and inverts during the fallow period does it reset the 6-8 week fallow period to day 1?

If the coral and fish came from a tank with fish disease in it, yes the fallow counter starts over at zero. The question is, what if you don’t know that?
Jay

 

[K9Fish]

If the coral and fish came from a tank with fish disease in it, yes the fallow counter starts over at zero. The question is, what if you don’t know that?
Jay

The real answer I guess would then be you never know when adding any thing new to your tank so the clock always should start back at zero.

I’m trying to wrap my head around this. If my tank has been fallow for almost 3 weeks with no host and I add corals or inverts now why would it start back at 60 days with no host? Yes, the new inverts or corals might be carrying the velvet but wouldn’t it die off much faster since there is no host to to fuel the cycle? My velvet was brought in by emerald crabs so i get the danger of inverts, etc. I’m trying to not make another mistake and go through this again but I want to learn and understand. Thanks for all you do.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The real answer I guess would then be you never know when adding any thing new to your tank so the clock always should start back at zero.

I’m trying to wrap my head around this. If my tank has been fallow for almost 3 weeks with no host and I add corals or inverts now why would it start back at 60 days with no host? Yes, the new inverts or corals might be carrying the velvet but wouldn’t it die off much faster since there is no host to to fuel the cycle? My velvet was brought in by emerald crabs so i get the danger of inverts, etc. I’m trying to not make another mistake and go through this again but I want to learn and understand. Thanks for all you do.

I often use a 30 day isolation period for new coral and invertebrates if I don't know if the tank they came from had sick fish or not. Many more progressive dealers are now holding their invertebrates in fishless systems. I found one dealer who would put their sick fish in the sump of their invertebrate system - OMG!

So - in your case, it is just about risk analysis. IMO - you would be pretty safe if you add invertebrates up until 30 days before the scheduled end of your fallow period.

The "fallow period" that people use is based on a single paper, written many years ago. It showed that ich tomonts could remain alive, without a fish host, at cool temperatures, in the absence of bacteria, for 76 days. That is then a hypothetical maximum time. 60 days is more realistic. Velvet has NOT been studied in the same way. Ed Noga, a fish veterinarian, thinks that less than 30 days for velvet is sufficient.

Jay

 

[K9Fish]

I often use a 30 day isolation period for new coral and invertebrates if I don't know if the tank they came from had sick fish or not. Many more progressive dealers are now holding their invertebrates in fishless systems. I found one dealer who would put their sick fish in the sump of their invertebrate system - OMG!

So - in your case, it is just about risk analysis. IMO - you would be pretty safe if you add invertebrates up until 30 days before the scheduled end of your fallow period.

The "fallow period" that people use is based on a single paper, written many years ago. It showed that ich tomonts could remain alive, without a fish host, at cool temperatures, in the absence of bacteria, for 76 days. That is then a hypothetical maximum time. 60 days is more realistic. Velvet has NOT been studied in the same way. Ed Noga, a fish veterinarian, thinks that less than 30 days for velvet is sufficient.

Jay

Jay,

Thank you so much. This is very valuable information, I do understand nothing is an absolute. Your knowledge and long term experience along with others like vetteguy53081 is a tremendous help to the hobby enabling us to learn from your experiences and gives the rest of us a solid road map to follow for greater success.

 

[K9Fish]

I often use a 30 day isolation period for new coral and invertebrates if I don't know if the tank they came from had sick fish or not. Many more progressive dealers are now holding their invertebrates in fishless systems. I found one dealer who would put their sick fish in the sump of their invertebrate system - OMG!

So - in your case, it is just about risk analysis. IMO - you would be pretty safe if you add invertebrates up until 30 days before the scheduled end of your fallow period.

The "fallow period" that people use is based on a single paper, written many years ago. It showed that ich tomonts could remain alive, without a fish host, at cool temperatures, in the absence of bacteria, for 76 days. That is then a hypothetical maximum time. 60 days is more realistic. Velvet has NOT been studied in the same way. Ed Noga, a fish veterinarian, thinks that less than 30 days for velvet is sufficient.

Jay

Jay,

I’m about to come out of my 30 day copper period and into the 30+ day observation period for my velvet outbreak. My question is my QT tank is a 40B. Is it ok to remove the copper through 30 gallon water changes every 4-5 days through the 30 day observation or do I need to do a 100% change, clean the tank and start the observation? Thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Jay,

I’m about to come out of my 30 day copper period and into the 30+ day observation period for my velvet outbreak. My question is my QT tank is a 40B. Is it ok to remove the copper through 30 gallon water changes every 4-5 days through the 30 day observation or do I need to do a 100% change, clean the tank and start the observation? Thanks

I would not do a drastic change and clean, better to change a smaller portion of the water more frequently, less stress on the fish. There is no huge rush to get the copper level down.

Jay

 

[K9Fish]

I would not do a drastic change and clean, better to change a smaller portion of the water more frequently, less stress on the fish. There is no huge rush to get the copper level down.

Jay

Thank you.

 

[K9Fish]

I would not do a drastic change and clean, better to change a smaller portion of the water more frequently, less stress on the fish. There is no huge rush to get the copper level down.

Jay

Jay,

I’m soon going to be finishing my fallow period after my velvet outbreak and have a question.

I’m taking the fallow period to 70 days and my surviving fish in QT are yellow coris, coral beauty, lawnmower and a red velvet fairy wrasse. These guys never showed any signs or symptoms from the velvet outbreak and did 35 days in Copper Power (2.25-2.50) and have been in observation since.

Is there any reason to do the 2 week Prazi QT protocol treatment on these guys? I understand all NEW fish need to go through your complete protocol (Copper and Prazi).

Thanks

 

[salty_noob]

I often use a 30 day isolation period for new coral and invertebrates if I don't know if the tank they came from had sick fish or not. Many more progressive dealers are now holding their invertebrates in fishless systems. I found one dealer who would put their sick fish in the sump of their invertebrate system - OMG!

So - in your case, it is just about risk analysis. IMO - you would be pretty safe if you add invertebrates up until 30 days before the scheduled end of your fallow period.

The "fallow period" that people use is based on a single paper, written many years ago. It showed that ich tomonts could remain alive, without a fish host, at cool temperatures, in the absence of bacteria, for 76 days. That is then a hypothetical maximum time. 60 days is more realistic. Velvet has NOT been studied in the same way. Ed Noga, a fish veterinarian, thinks that less than 30 days for velvet is sufficient.

Jay

Need expert opinions on this:

so 30 days in copper (2.25-2.5 per Hanna checker every other day) and all of the fish that came out of the display tank look great, transfer them all to a larger observation tank without copper, 12 days they all seem perfectly happy.

Day 13 in observation, Sailfin has spots on it's fins and tail, can someone try to ID this?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Need expert opinions on this:

so 30 days in copper (2.25-2.5 per Hanna checker every other day) and all of the fish that came out of the display tank look great, transfer them all to a larger observation tank without copper, 12 days they all seem perfectly happy.

Day 13 in observation, Sailfin has spots on it's fins and tail, can someone try to ID this?

I see mucus on the dorsal fin and possible broken fin rays on the tail. I don’t see ich here, but visual ID is never 100%

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Jay,

I’m soon going to be finishing my fallow period after my velvet outbreak and have a question.

I’m taking the fallow period to 70 days and my surviving fish in QT are yellow coris, coral beauty, lawnmower and a red velvet fairy wrasse. These guys never showed any signs or symptoms from the velvet outbreak and did 35 days in Copper Power (2.25-2.50) and have been in observation since.

Is there any reason to do the 2 week Prazi QT protocol treatment on these guys? I understand all NEW fish need to go through your complete protocol (Copper and Prazi).

Thanks

Sorry!

I think I may have missed this post. IMO, unless the fish got exposed to new fish, there would be no need to treat them with prazi.

Jay

 

[salty_noob]

I see mucus on the dorsal fin and possible broken fin rays on the tail. I don’t see ich here, but visual ID is never 100%

Jay

Thank you, that is at least encouraging, I will continue to observe and feed well, maybe they are all just getting cranky in the "prison" tank.

 

[salty_noob]

I just wanted to say a big thank you to all the experts on the forum, all of the fish that I took out of my main tank alive are now back in the system, healthy and happy after my fallow period and their own treatments, even the sailfin that was having a few issues along the way.

Just waiting to see if my LCA dinos come back now that the fish are back in and pods are no longer everywhere even during the day. It still puzzles me that a fallow period would help in that battle but looks good so far.