Ammonia conversion
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I noticed this thread isn't getting tons of responses
that's because what ammonia does in a reef tank is still under review the book isn't closed yet, so its hard to answer.
Im sure somewhere on scholar there's a conversion rate baseline, but the actual ability for your test kits to be anywhere near the truth in reading is going to be a longshot. here's the highlights:
you have access to 1 form of digital measurement for nh3 conversion: seneye. it shows running reefs post cycle to convert nh3 into first step/presumably nitrite/at the rate of .002-.009 thousandths ppm ammonia
(I read that hach has a digial lab nh3 meter, eight hundred Im assuming/seneye would be practical)
that's the rate at which known sampled reef tanks run, and it matches certain ocean data for the same conversion rates on reefs (but not farm runoff or estuaries or high silt low flow zones those can be orders higher, so the conversion rates might change I do not know)
red sea and salifert and api simply stand no chance on detail reporting of a rate...they speak only in colors.
maybe my post will get a chemist responding on the actual detail answer but until then I am curious: are you having a stuck cycle issue, or are your test kits not lining up with reality (meaning fish are fine, corals fine, but you show free ammonia constantly)??
that's because what ammonia does in a reef tank is still under review the book isn't closed yet, so its hard to answer.
Im sure somewhere on scholar there's a conversion rate baseline, but the actual ability for your test kits to be anywhere near the truth in reading is going to be a longshot. here's the highlights:
you have access to 1 form of digital measurement for nh3 conversion: seneye. it shows running reefs post cycle to convert nh3 into first step/presumably nitrite/at the rate of .002-.009 thousandths ppm ammonia
(I read that hach has a digial lab nh3 meter, eight hundred Im assuming/seneye would be practical)
that's the rate at which known sampled reef tanks run, and it matches certain ocean data for the same conversion rates on reefs (but not farm runoff or estuaries or high silt low flow zones those can be orders higher, so the conversion rates might change I do not know)
red sea and salifert and api simply stand no chance on detail reporting of a rate...they speak only in colors.
maybe my post will get a chemist responding on the actual detail answer but until then I am curious: are you having a stuck cycle issue, or are your test kits not lining up with reality (meaning fish are fine, corals fine, but you show free ammonia constantly)??
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Paul31733
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Tanks been running for 7.5 months no issue. Just bought a seneye and it says I have 0.499 ppm ammonia. On my way to buy seachem ammonia test to double check. Also pooping my pants....0.499 is the limit on seneye so could be higher... I don't see how this could happen with no deaths and 7.5 months in...
iamacat
Higher than my pH
That is an error. No way that’s right. Your fish would be dead
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Paul31733
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That's what I thought... It's been 24 hours I haven't had a chance to check ammonia with a test kit as I haven't had one for 6 months and I had to work today.
I am on my way to the store to get a test kit now I'll let you know!
we've been tracking rascal misreading seneyes here!
well I still like em, should email them. more units work within range for them than # of units misreporting.
They're willing to work with you up to replacement we've seen before.
www.reef2reef.com
agreed its an error for 100% sure. slide prep issue maybe not sure
well I still like em, should email them. more units work within range for them than # of units misreporting.
They're willing to work with you up to replacement we've seen before.
A thread tracking the incidence of seneye nh3 misreads
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/using-seneye-reef-readings-to-cycle-tank.773299/ there are two more, I want to log these in one thread so we can begin patterning. I’ll go find the others in no way does that reef above have tenths ppm nh3 but thats not been proven, yet.
www.reef2reef.com
agreed its an error for 100% sure. slide prep issue maybe not sure
Even though this wont help alleviate concerns much after paying big $ for a misread:
you don't have to buy a single thing, and not even another ammonia test kit.
Ammonia is the most predictable compound in reefing, yours is in the thousandths ppm we already know. no need to buy things to reinforce, all the details from your tank pics will 100% back this up.
no reef tank fails to control ammonia post-cycle, if you can account for all your fish and haven't dosed meds lately. its clockwork reliable
focus on making seneye work with you until that reef reads in the stated range above
I will never own an ammonia test kit. ever. because its 100% predictable at all times. it is very fun however to collect the readings of seneye in various threads to show consistency of ammonia tank to tank...among groups of machines there's always a few sideways ones but we get to watch how they handle your reef device/take care of you vs leave you hanging with a clearly misreading one.
their slide prep requires 48 hour soaks / special approaches for sure.
you don't have to buy a single thing, and not even another ammonia test kit.
Ammonia is the most predictable compound in reefing, yours is in the thousandths ppm we already know. no need to buy things to reinforce, all the details from your tank pics will 100% back this up.
no reef tank fails to control ammonia post-cycle, if you can account for all your fish and haven't dosed meds lately. its clockwork reliable
focus on making seneye work with you until that reef reads in the stated range above
I will never own an ammonia test kit. ever. because its 100% predictable at all times. it is very fun however to collect the readings of seneye in various threads to show consistency of ammonia tank to tank...among groups of machines there's always a few sideways ones but we get to watch how they handle your reef device/take care of you vs leave you hanging with a clearly misreading one.
their slide prep requires 48 hour soaks / special approaches for sure.
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Cannot be an ammonia precursor problem, ruled out for sure.
Nh3 are by rule tank wide events. Inability to molt is more likely/ alt causes. It takes massive insult to get nh3 cycling, and outcomes do not require any test kit to spot. Post pic of your tank we love ammonia tracing work!
Here's a legit tank wipe by nh3:
www.reef2reef.com
Cause: added unrinsed old tank sand. And it would take a lot of it, clouded with gunk, to over come natural nh3 controls its the #1 parameter every reef post cycle never fails to control.
Working seneye machines have tracked out dead tangs left to rot, thousandths ppm never veered. It takes massive insult to kill something with free ammonia
Nh3 are by rule tank wide events. Inability to molt is more likely/ alt causes. It takes massive insult to get nh3 cycling, and outcomes do not require any test kit to spot. Post pic of your tank we love ammonia tracing work!
Here's a legit tank wipe by nh3:
Upgrade disaster
Recently had a huge leak in our 90 gal reef which forced us to upgrade sooner than expected . The upgrade being a 230 gal with a 48 gal sump . Mistake #1 I added some of the old sand assuming it would be beneficial to have a little bacteria .. I was wrong . Nuked the whole tank killing all fish...
www.reef2reef.com
Cause: added unrinsed old tank sand. And it would take a lot of it, clouded with gunk, to over come natural nh3 controls its the #1 parameter every reef post cycle never fails to control.
Working seneye machines have tracked out dead tangs left to rot, thousandths ppm never veered. It takes massive insult to kill something with free ammonia
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Paul31733
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I will post a picture when I get home! Everything In my tank has been going great! I literally bought the seneye for par meter and decided to just keep it in the water to monitor ph. Then I pooped my pants when I saw 0.5 ppm ammonia. I was also pretty sure was an error but I am still a somewhat ****** so decided to post in here and buy a test.Cannot be an ammonia precursor problem, ruled out for sure.
Nh3 are by rule tank wide events. Inability to molt is more likely/ alt causes. It takes massive insult to get nh3 cycling, and outcomes do not require any test kit to spot. Post pic of your tank we love ammonia tracing work!
Here's a legit tank wipe by nh3:
Upgrade disaster
Recently had a huge leak in our 90 gal reef which forced us to upgrade sooner than expected . The upgrade being a 230 gal with a 48 gal sump . Mistake #1 I added some of the old sand assuming it would be beneficial to have a little bacteria .. I was wrong . Nuked the whole tank killing all fish...
Cause: added unrinsed old tank sand. And it would take a lot of it, clouded with gunk, to over come natural nh3 controls its the #1 parameter every reef post cycle never fails to control.
Working seneye machines have tracked out dead tangs left to rot, thousandths ppm never veered. It takes massive insult to kill something with free ammonia
I do appreciate the help!
I am aware crabs just die...
I was mostly concerned due to performing a water change and adding seneye. Then having a dead crab in a.m and high ammonia reading on seneye.
As I said I was pretty sure it was an error which is why I have not done a massive water change or anything. I will record results of ammonia test and post pics of my tank in an hour and a half prob.
I do have a slight bit of cyano due to starting a course of vibrant to fight the uglies. But nothing smothering or anything.
I will post pics sorry for rambling haha
Thanks
Paul
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Paul31733
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Now these are some photos of my tank that I took right now... Like literally right now... So don't bash me too hard ( or do it's kinda awesome) but honestly I'm open to constructive criticism!! As I said I have had this running for 7.5 months and am heavily addicted...but I was unaware of an issue until seneye told me there was an issue.. and there was no issue 
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Still on my list of projects “measure rate of NH3 consumption”. I am leaning towards not testing my entire aquarium first, though @taricha and I have supercharged the API test to detect NH3 down to 0.01-.05 ppm. Under aquarium pH that means NH3 less than 0.01 ppm.
Would my fish be OK if I bumped the NH3 level to 0.1 ppm?
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Paul31733
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Jokes on me... I said I was new.... He did molt lol he's aliveCannot be an ammonia precursor problem, ruled out for sure.
Nh3 are by rule tank wide events. Inability to molt is more likely/ alt causes. It takes massive insult to get nh3 cycling, and outcomes do not require any test kit to spot. Post pic of your tank we love ammonia tracing work!
Here's a legit tank wipe by nh3:
Upgrade disaster
Recently had a huge leak in our 90 gal reef which forced us to upgrade sooner than expected . The upgrade being a 230 gal with a 48 gal sump . Mistake #1 I added some of the old sand assuming it would be beneficial to have a little bacteria .. I was wrong . Nuked the whole tank killing all fish...
Cause: added unrinsed old tank sand. And it would take a lot of it, clouded with gunk, to over come natural nh3 controls its the #1 parameter every reef post cycle never fails to control.
Working seneye machines have tracked out dead tangs left to rot, thousandths ppm never veered. It takes massive insult to kill something with free ammonia
Dan truly I have no idea, we are used to working in arrangements that always trend towards control. If u bring levels to a certain .1 I bet it oxidizes faster than lethality would set in, just my guess.
when other standard tanks not trying to test clearances post they have tenths ppm I never believe em since there’s no consistent input source to keep levels, they’ve always used bottle bac which we know to activate fairly quick, and they’re always massive surface area tanks trending to total control nh3
if you are able to alter one or more control variables to keep true .1 then we w be taking notes on fish behavior and time it changes. I wouldn’t bet instantly lethal in your case, I’d bet strong correlation to behavior change in fish not long after. They should not be willing to feed or act normal, exact same opercular rates etc.
if they’re symptom free mind = blown but wouldn’t expect instant lethality at that level just my guess (surely they endure some spikes briefly during bulk shipping etc? Not sure)
I sure have based a lot of writing on being able to depend on fish behavior to infer at least something about free ammonia. If they’re totally symptom free for two or five hours lol at that rate, then the back edits alone will take me a year
when other standard tanks not trying to test clearances post they have tenths ppm I never believe em since there’s no consistent input source to keep levels, they’ve always used bottle bac which we know to activate fairly quick, and they’re always massive surface area tanks trending to total control nh3
if you are able to alter one or more control variables to keep true .1 then we w be taking notes on fish behavior and time it changes. I wouldn’t bet instantly lethal in your case, I’d bet strong correlation to behavior change in fish not long after. They should not be willing to feed or act normal, exact same opercular rates etc.
if they’re symptom free mind = blown but wouldn’t expect instant lethality at that level just my guess (surely they endure some spikes briefly during bulk shipping etc? Not sure)
I sure have based a lot of writing on being able to depend on fish behavior to infer at least something about free ammonia. If they’re totally symptom free for two or five hours lol at that rate, then the back edits alone will take me a year
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