Ammonia Levels

[Newatthis]

Hi All,

I appreciate the following question may be a bit up for debate depending on a number of parameters; what would you say is the top limit ammonia level before you need to start to worry?

I’m doing weekly water changes so it never really gets that high, I think the highest I had was approximately 0.1 ppm. I test every other day but I’d like to get an idea of a level of ammonia at which I’d need to do an emergency water change prior to my scheduled weekly change.

My testing kit does have a scale but it says 0.5 ppm is dangerous, yet my fish have been absolutely fine, eat well and swim around looking as healthy as the day I bought them.

If it helps, I have a 62litre tank with two tiny clown fish.

Appreciate any feedback and advice anyone can give.

Thanks.

 

[Crabs McJones]

Are you doing an in fish cycle? Is this a QT tank? Sorry to add on more questions. But once a tank cycles and matures you shouldn't have any ammonia readings. Also which testing kit are you using?

 

[brandon429]

the only test you can trust to get a real indication of ammonia is seneye now.

all the others are not for low level readings, none of them. They're for indicating changes in state but we dont look to the constant number they provide as a real reference for ammonia.

thousandths ppm is the only safe turnover rate, anything above risks death, and its also consistent tank to tank. only seneye can read that level, the other tests are calibrated to zero which doesnt exist...so they misread the conversion rate.

You listed a clue above that tells me your reef is cycled

but for fun, post pic, and we'll confirm in about two seconds if its .00x ppm ammonia, off the pic.

even if you are fish-in cycling, and most will buy your reading as accurate, I still wouldnt. Most people wont put fish into dry surfaces without bottle bac...as soon as we add bottle bac, a fish-in cycle works like all the rest, and we get test readings that high in full matured reefs all the time/its how we study claimed stuck cycle threads...but no cycle ever actually stalls so I doubt free ammonia above thousandths here since living bioload is present.

All the readings are wrong, its not the tanks, its lack of seneye readings.

we know .02 ppm will start to kill fish, so there's no way you're in the tenths. we're able to trace ammonia off the slightest clues written nowadays, its that predictable in a reef tank.

if you did put fish into a dry start tank with no bac then tenths is possible, and your whole system being dead from compounding is expected by lunch today. If they live past 3 pm today, I predict your pics will show rocks, sand, fish and either real live rock or bottle bac start=you are in the thousandths.

 

[Newatthis]

Are you doing an in fish cycle? Is this a QT tank? Sorry to add on more questions. But once a tank cycles and matures you shouldn't have any ammonia readings. Also which testing kit are you using?

Thanks for your reply.

I started a no fish cycle, got to around the two month mark and absolutely nothing happened. I spoke to my local fish shop who said to add fish, so I did. So in answer to your question, yes I suppose it is.

Sorry, I’m not quite up with the acronyms...By ‘QT’ do you mean quarantine tank? If so, no it’s not.
The test kit is ‘JBL Aquatest Combiset Matine Pro’. It’s just the one that was recommended at my local fish shop.

Thanks again.

 

[brandon429]

these were the tracing clues in your descrip, linked back to stuck cycle study thread rules:

1. as the day I bought them
indicated multiple days with living bioload, and fish die overnite in a dry rock no seeding system. plus, feeding has been going on we're likely talking weeks or several days.

2. .5 and .1 and .25 are always, always the measures stated in free ammonia concern threads. Those are patterned reports, that combined with number of days underwater and this tank has no free ammonia to concern whatsoever.

in summary, you are reading a false test kit nothing is wrong with ammonia, and nothing is every going to be wrong it can't drift out of spec if you have all your fish living/not rotting inside.


there is simply nothing wrong with your ammonia, no matter how you slice it, case closed.

post pics for final proof

ammonia burned fish above .02 ppm free ammonia dart, hover and die at the top seeking air.

 

[Newatthis]

the only test you can trust to get a real indication of ammonia is seneye now.

all the others are not for low level readings, none of them. They're for indicating changes in state but we dont look to the constant number they provide as a real reference for ammonia.

thousandths ppm is the only safe turnover rate, anything above risks death, and its also consistent tank to tank. only seneye can read that level, the other tests are calibrated to zero which doesnt exist...so they misread the conversion rate.

You listed a clue above that tells me your reef is cycled

but for fun, post pic, and we'll confirm in about two seconds if its .00x ppm ammonia, off the pic.

even if you are fish-in cycling, and most will buy your reading as accurate, I still wouldnt. Most people wont put fish into dry surfaces without bottle bac...as soon as we add bottle bac, a fish-in cycle works like all the rest, and we get test readings that high in full matured reefs all the time/its how we study claimed stuck cycle threads...but no cycle ever actually stalls so I doubt free ammonia above thousandths here since living bioload is present.

All the readings are wrong, its not the tanks, its lack of seneye readings.

we know .02 ppm will start to kill fish, so there's no way you're in the tenths. we're able to trace ammonia off the slightest clues written nowadays, its that predictable in a reef tank.

if you did put fish into a dry start tank with no bac then tenths is possible, and your whole system being dead from compounding is expected by lunch today. If they live past 3 pm today, I predict your pics will show rocks, sand, fish and either real live rock or bottle bac start=you are in the thousandths.

Thanks for your lengthy reply, it’s much appreciated.

When I added the fish I also added bottled bacteria too. I’ve attached a photo for you...hope it helps.

Thanks.

 

[brandon429]

your ammonia is in the thousandths ppm and thats not a guess. Thats massive surface area, likely pre wet sand which is also ready skip cycled, those are either liferock or live rocks that either show up fully activated (live rock is skip cycle, brings in bacteria) or they activate in 10 days submersion time (liferocks, website info)


your tester isn't worthless though

if it ever spikes up briefly to a really high level (which will be very low in real life) then a dead snail or dead animal has began to decompose.

if you can visually spot your animals, this reef will never ever ever be out of ammonia spec as long as it has water in it. cool huh, solidarity in at least one param from all these we measure!

ammonia never does anything unpredictable, in any reef tank, they're all behaving the same given typical rock and sand surface area/ the universal reef arrangement.


*you can't believe how many thousands of people keep re buying bottle bac over, and over for this ghost condition. Your tank needs zero bacterial or ammonia support, looks great!

what bacteria do are never ever ever in doubt, its always non-seneye stating these things, always, always. we even caught a seneye reporting falsely/not calibrated the other day here bc it said the tank was in the hundredths vs thousandths...seneye corporate did agree in email (that this reader was off and producing error codes)

ammonia is that predictable...no testing needed. amazing.

*to affirm a reading of a reef param without a test in place seems ludicrous aware


but this has been tested

in all seneye tanks...they all show the same reading range *even with a dead tang in one it didnt spike into the hundredths. You haven't produced the first noncompliant surface area in reefing, fish are alive plus feed, so this is confirmed. your tank will produce what all seneye tanks show in range if one was hooked up to it.

the other params? wild as day lol but not ammonia we know it by rule nowadays based on time underwater with bioload and pics. not a single mechanism exists in aquarium biology for that reef above to be above the thousandths ppm ammonia conversion rate (into nitrite presumably, but leave room for another decade to find 2 intermediaries lol)

 

[Newatthis]

your ammonia is in the thousandths ppm and thats not a guess. Thats massive surface area, likely pre wet sand which is also ready skip cycled, those are either liferock or live rocks that either show up fully activated (live rock is skip cycle, brings in bacteria) or they activate in 10 days submersion time (liferocks, website info)


your tester isn't worthless though

if it ever spikes up briefly to a really high level (which will be very low in real life) then a dead snail or dead animal has began to decompose.

if you can visually spot your animals, this reef will never ever ever be out of ammonia spec as long as it has water in it. cool huh, solidarity in at least one param from all these we measure!

ammonia never does anything unpredictable, in any reef tank, they're all behaving the same given typical rock and sand surface area/ the universal reef arrangement.


*you can't believe how many thousands of people keep re buying bottle bac over, and over for this ghost condition. Your tank needs zero bacterial or ammonia support, looks great!

what bacteria do are never ever ever in doubt, its always non-seneye stating these things, always, always. we even caught a seneye reporting falsely/not calibrated the other day here bc it said the tank was in the hundredths vs thousandths...seneye corporate did agree in email (that this reader was off and producing error codes)

ammonia is that predictable...no testing needed. amazing.

*to affirm a reading of a reef param without a test in place seems ludicrous aware


but this has been tested

in all seneye tanks...they all show the same reading range *even with a dead tang in one it didnt spike into the hundredths. You haven't produced the first noncompliant surface area in reefing, fish are alive plus feed, so this is confirmed. your tank will produce what all seneye tanks show in range if one was hooked up to it.

the other params? wild as day lol but not ammonia we know it by rule nowadays based on time underwater with bioload and pics. not a single mechanism exists in aquarium biology for that reef above to be above the thousandths ppm ammonia conversion rate (into nitrite presumably, but leave room for another decade to find 2 intermediaries lol)

Thanks again for your detailed reply...very informative!

You’re correct, live wet sand with one piece of life rock and one of live rock.

If ammonia is quite predictable, I’m confused as to why so many people seem to have issues with it?

Anyway, It sounds like I should order a Seneye! In the meantime I’ll keep an eye on the ammonia levels via the tests but take the values with a pinch of salt!

Thanks again and take care.

 

[brandon429]

its purely the testers that made us doubt this predictability in what ammonia does. we have been using these color based titration ones that can't read true conversion levels

they're better used for indicating a dead fish, not reading active low level ammonia rates. purely testing misreading for millions...bacteria never did stall or prevent a full cycle.

the only reefs that dont abide by pure ammonia control are qt systems or any system lacking the typical surface area we employ. those are subject to variance, but not reefs. live rock alone is too powerful, scrubs all free ammonia unless there's a source so strong its able to overcome reserves and crash a system

ammonia can never hover at an 'irritation' level, if its free and present its doom and the tank will show it, in all cases not just some.

*truly uncured live rock sure might die off and dead tunicates rot into the system with algae + curing clams etc, of course rot and + ammonia can happen. Its rare to see those kinds of systems, most are the ones you have setup/able to be predicted before pics they're so common.

on seneye, even curing live rock will not hold at 1.0 or any other reading for days/its fully active and dynamic, changing by the second we can now measure. to ever reach the tenths ppm true free ammonia is totally destructive, we'll see hazy water and the house will smell bad.