Ammonia/Nitrite levels during cycling

[brandon429]

Remaining specific to this thread vs milking every possible test out of the device:

The slight difference between systems is proportional to time running and should equalize darn close to day ten in the new tank. The only way to measure it after projected date isn't with a jolt of test ammonia its with some fish in place


Their daily metabolism and feed command should press the system lightly and be within80- 90% of that full system power above as a daily max nh3 expression

Remember the old way of cycling establishes 0% predictability in any cycle.

Completion dates range 3 weeks to 90 days, copious threads exist to show this range assumed when the test kit is api.

But we're here stating how your reefs are about to cycle, ahead of time. Moore's law of reefing = in effect. It is not required to test a reef tank in cycling any longer

Because we know the timeline... you are set to audit that very basic aspect of updated cycling science and whatever that meter says in your cycled tank I won't debate. If it was red sea I'd never believe it for fifty years

That calibrated seneye? Got my notepad out. It's the sole sayer.

 

[Luan B.]

Remaining specific to this thread vs milking every possible test out of the device:

The slight difference between systems is proportional to time running and should equalize darn close to day ten in the new tank. The only way to measure it after projected date isn't with a jolt of test ammonia its with some fish in place


Their daily metabolism and feed command should press the system lightly and be within80- 90% of that full system power above as a daily max nh3 expression

Remember the old way of cycling establishes 0% predictability in any cycle.

Completion dates range 3 weeks to 90 days, copious threads exist to show this range assumed when the test kit is api.

But we're here stating how your reefs are about to cycle, ahead of time. Moore's law of reefing = in effect. It is not required to test a reef tank in cycling any longer

Because we know the timeline... you are set to audit that very basic aspect of updated cycling science and whatever that meter says in your cycled tank I won't debate. If it was red sea I'd never believe it for fifty years

That calibrated seneye? Got my notepad out. It's the sole sayer.

I'm actually interested to see the end result and how the ammonia graph is going to be during cycle. I'll se if I can get a cheap test kit to compare, probably would be a Salifert since is the only cheap one around here.

Just for the record it's been 3 days since I add bacteria, ammonia and nopox.
Highest reading for Ammonia so far: 0.03
Highest reading for Nitrite so far: 0.013

Added one block of frozen Mysis on 22/03/25. Not adding or touching anything for the next 10 days.
Current Ammonia level: 0.002
Nitrite: 0.003
Running skimmer and lights schedule for 10hr/day - 422lts/122gal tank

 

[brandon429]

I wouldn't waste cash on salifert (bc it's good it reads as nh3) the test was only to contrast nh4 readouts from kits like api and red sea to highlight how panic readings begin
Salifert has the lowest incidence of misreads for the non digital kits I fear it would waste your money by showing a zero reading we expect.

Was only seeing if you had the other kits laying around no prob at all if not, these are great updates.

Your readings above are getting into spec and the mode of ammonia delivery/ protein breakdown in the system/ isn't going to spike high at all it'll just hold low level for days while the system feeds and builds up a minor bioslick

Once bioload is in the tank it might raise a bit but it won't raise to lethal levels if your bottle bac was good and strong

What type was the bacteria you added? Making sure because we see cycles sometimes where only feed was added and no bacteria, that kind takes longer than ten days where only natural bacteria inputs are used.

 

[Luan B.]

I wouldn't waste cash on salifert (bc it's good it reads as nh3) the test was only to contrast nh4 readouts from kits like api and red sea to highlight how panic readings begin
Salifert has the lowest incidence of misreads for the non digital kits I fear it would waste your money by showing a zero reading we expect.

Was only seeing if you had the other kits laying around no prob at all if not, these are great updates.

Your readings above are getting into spec and the mode of ammonia delivery/ protein breakdown in the system/ isn't going to spike high at all it'll just hold low level for days while the system feeds and builds up a minor bioslick

Once bioload is in the tank it might raise a bit but it won't raise to lethal levels if your bottle bac was good and strong

What type was the bacteria you added? Making sure because we see cycles sometimes where only feed was added and no bacteria, that kind takes longer than ten days where only natural bacteria inputs are used.

Only added 2 bacteria bottles from Red Sea mature kit to the tank and nopox.

I had to add 2 pieces of shrimp this morning since the block of mysis is gone and probably ended up getting filtered.

Ammonia and nitrites levels doubled overnight as shown in the graph but still insignificant levels.

 

[brandon429]

That all looks spot on and the red sea cycling dosers have functioned well many times here. Now we get to see it pinpoint detail.

 

[brandon429]

If you have half a pinch of fish food I'd still add it, ground up. It has a wide range of nutrients for the mix/ simple boost.

A side benefit of what you're doing: not pressing a cycle to 2 ppm like every cycling article in the world says to, is avoiding the final water change

The low level feed + extended contact time given means you just add the fish and go on day ten. Pretty cool not having to change thirty gallons of water for a clean start
You'll be at a clean start already and with an adhered bioslick that will grow exponentially fast when a fish + fish food is given

That initial boost of feed now establishes the selected strains from the inoculation given, and gives them a little time. The shrimp degrading is of course likely enough as nobody has ever seen that fail but the fish food boost is well- tested.


In several threads that got very heated we debated not pressing a cycle to 2pmm, why that's a dated process and unnecessary, you're directly testing the outcome here for those threads.

I should ask about your disease preps

Stocking fish at day ten violates Fallow plans if you have any... not everyone does care about that but it must be mentioned.

The sole concern in the cycle for updated cycling science is the disease prep not the ammonia prep. The fundamental takeaway is that any common arrangement we begin as a reef cycle evens out enough by day ten that a common starting bioload is fine.

What really tests fish are the mixed diseases pet store items bring in.

*fast v slow reef cycling does not affect expression rates. Nearly everyone in the disease forum help threads were long cyclers.

Vectoring from pet store sources without Fallow and quarantine is the specific risk, not ammonia control.

 

[Luan B.]

Unfortunately i don’t think this “experiment” is going to work. I believe my seneye is not working correctly (I honestly only use as a par meter since my tank was mature when I bought it).

The shrimp started to decompose and I can see a layer of something on top of both of them. Still pretty insignificant levels of ammonia so I manually added ammonia chloride to more likely, test the sensor and nothing… then I add the equivalent amount to bring ammonia up to 2ppm, still showing less than 0.14 ppm.

I tried to contact seneye customer support and they pretty much said “well, is reading something, so is working”

Now I definitely have to go buy some ammonia tester to see where I’m standing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I expect you are probably done cycling. :)

 

[brandon429]

You added ammonia?

had said not to. That's what makes these threads so rare. Your meter was calibrated better than anyone's.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

You added ammonia?

had said not to. That's what makes these threads so rare. Your meter was calibrated better than anyone's.

It’s never a problem to demonstrate that ammonia declines rapidly after adding it.

As an aside, why do you have such confidence in the Seneye ammonia readings?

 

[brandon429]

I'll show you once I get a partner with the device who's willing to run the simple approach with me. Why do you think it's not?

I already said: it's not the claim that .002 is dead ob accurate. It's that once we attain basic calibration, load tests that slightly move that reading then send it back to the steady state are rare and great observations for us, and I'd said that with api or red sea we'd never be this close to knowing inherent rebound rates from stacks of rocks and ten other measures

 

[brandon429]

The simple course here was to do what I'd said, then add a fish or two on day ten.


he's free to change it any way he wants but that doesn't mean extrapolations made follow a truth. He did opposite of the advice/ his right no problem.

Nothing was simpler and he had the calibrations in place to proof the prediction. The stated levels were going to match the fish presentation this time unlike api whose readings rarely match the behavior we see in fish that don't indicate being in pain.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'll show you once I get a partner with the device who's willing to run the simple approach with me. Why do you think it's not?

I already said: it's not the claim that .002 is dead ob accurate. It's that once we attain basic calibration, load tests that slightly move that reading then send it back to the steady state are rare and great observations for us, and I'd said that with api or red sea we'd never be this close to knowing inherent rebound rates from stacks of rocks and ten other measures

I haven’t made any claim about its accuracy. You did, which is why I asked.

 

[brandon429]

One day a seneye owner will be interested in using their device to inspect differences between new and old cycling science while they cycle. I'll keep fishing until I find one.


factoring in the info dump lol I don't blame any who refuse.

I'll update this thread here with findings and prediction outcomes when I meet that partner. I don't forget my seneye threads.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The stated levels were going to match the fish presentation this time unlike api whose readings rarely match the behavior we see in fish that don't indicate being in pain.

What is your evidence that 0.5 ppm total ammonia causes pain?

 

[brandon429]

Randy

Where did you get that number? Is that an arbitrary rating based on a color gradient in someone's web post? Who's fit to assess that level in a reef tank without a digital readout kit?

 

[Luan B.]

I’m sorry but the reading was way off, I’m reading 15 nitrates with hanna checker, there’s no way I’m only having 0.1 ammonia (peak). I don’t know why the interest on the seneye, I can literally ran the test again using my nano tank, have a whole spare set up. But what can I do if the device is clearly not reading right.

also what would be the difference testing cycle readings using a 10lts bucket? Sound like a easy enough test tbh

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Randy

Where did you get that number? Is that an arbitrary rating based on a color gradient in someone's web post? Who's fit to assess that level in a reef tank without a digital readout kit?

I based it on the common assumption that the api kit may show ammonia at such levels (or less) when there isn’t much by other tests.

 

[brandon429]

What I'm saying is that it's not possible to always land on the safe side of the fence where nothing dies. We'd have some people who trend towards higher pH posting losses among the million searchable cycling threads.


In the thread u decided to allow to survive for three days :)


we showed in at least that time: nobody had seen a crash truly pinned convincingly to primary ammonia noncontrol in a thread they'd been in.

we always, always land on the safe and all these systems stop at .5 for the example? Where's the symptoms from the ones who exceeded that steady state?

nare to be found.

That's a fascinating pattern I'm not allowed to sample for very long right?

But going off my three days I'll still bet by day eighty we wouldn't have anything but those numerous .5 readings (in symptomless tanks) as the claim for failed cycles.

I cannot validate anything ever said about .5 with api because we don't see it sustained on seneye for lengths of time.

Api never posts a reading that matches the tank observation unless Taricha you or Dan runs it.

Calibrated seneyes reflect the real tight controls I believe are inherently in place in all/I've ever seen reef tanks usually by day ten, considering the boosts we apply.

Api believers throw around .5 nh4 as common as day, seneye users rarely see it. To me that makes api and red sea useless, they constitute all the misread threads collected in my opinion. Three people on the board wield them convincingly.

 

[Luan B.]

Probably doesn’t help anymore but all the ammonia manually added was consumed and now the shrimp is rotting away and ammonia going up again.