Antibiotics

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by Humblefish, Jan 15, 2017.

  1. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    21,621
    Likes Received:
    29,963
    Antibiotic treatment


    What It TreatsBacterial infections, which are oftentimes “secondary” to preexisting parasitic (and worm) infestations.

    How To TreatFollow the directions on the label of whatever product you are using. Always use a broad spectrum antibiotic medication i.e. one that treats both gram-positive and gram-negative bacterial diseases.

    The following are medications I recommend (in order of preference):

    1) Nitrofuracin Green Powder (Best used in a QT with no working biofilter, as the Methylene Blue contained therein can destroy nitrifying bacteria.)

    2) AAP Spectrogram (Kanamycin/Nitrofurazone synergistic combination … Can be combined with Metronidazole … Can be used in a QT with a working biofilter.)

    3) Furan-2 + Seachem Kanaplex + Metroplex (metronidazole) – Can be used separately, but most effective when all 3 are combined together. Furan-2 + Kanaplex should be dosed at the same time for maximum effectiveness. Can be used in a QT with a working biofilter.

    4) Triple Sulfa Powder

    5) Seachem Sulfaplex + Neoplex (Can be used separately or together.)

    6) Maracyn 1 (Erythromycin) – Best antibiotic for treating eye infections.

    When using antibiotics, it is very important to treat for at least 10 consecutive days. Follow the instructions on the label – which may say to dose every 24 or 48 hours, do water changes, etc. But use the product for 10 continuous days (as directed). Sometimes a fish will look & act better after just a few days of treatment; however the infection can return if you end treatment prematurely. Or sometimes the opposite will happen, as antibiotics can be notoriously slow acting with fish. If a fish shows no signs of improvement after 10 days, then it’s time to try a completely different medication. Just like with humans, sometimes a certain fish will respond better to a different treatment.

    The medications listed above are primarily meant to be dosed into the water. Using antibiotics in a QT environment (or bath treatment) fits within the comfort level of most hobbyists. However, the best way to apply antibiotics is via intramuscular injection (obviously difficult to do with small fish). The first step is to sedate the fish using MS-222 (Tricaine Methanesulfonate). Next, inject an antibiotic (e.g. enrofloxacin), or a steroid such as dexamethasone to help reduce inflammation/swelling. The injection is made into the muscle on the side of the dorsal ridge, angling the needle towards the head or tail to avoid hitting any major organs below. Typically you would use a tuberculin syringe with a 27 gauge needle to draw up the solution and a 30 gauge needle to inject. After the injection is complete, place the fish in a heavily oxygenated bucket with clean saltwater and glide the fish through the water until he is revived. Dosage for Intramuscular dexamethasone varies from 1-2 mg/kg. Dosing info for enrofloxacin and other fish antibiotics can be found here.

    You can also food soak antibiotics; this is especially useful for treating internal infections. Neomycin (e.g. Neoplex) will not get absorbed by the fish’s gastrointestinal tract, thus making it an excellent antibiotic to soak in food. I’ve also had success using kanamycin (e.g. Kanaplex) to treat internal infections. Metronidazole (e.g. Metroplex) is another good option and can also be used to treat internal flagellates. See Table 1 (here) for other ABX which can be soaked in food. It is also important to use a binder to greatly reduce the loss of medication to the water through diffusion (this also makes food soaking reef safe). Seachem Focus, unflavored gelatin or agar are all examples of binding agents that can be used. My formula for food soaking ABX can be found below:

    Using a shot glass:
    1 scoop (~ 1/8 teaspoon) of medication
    1 scoop Focus
    1 tbsp food (preferably pellets or frozen food)
    A few drops of saltwater or fish vitamins
    Stir until a medicated food slurry has been achieved
    Feed after soaking for 30 mins
    Refrigerate (For 5-7 Days) or freeze any leftovers for future use


    ProsCan be mixed with other medications; however effectiveness may be limited if used in the presence of an immunosuppressant (e.g. copper, Chloroquine).

    Cons/Side EffectsSuppresses appetite, depletes the water of oxygen (so provide additional gas exchange). Antibiotics dosed in water are notoriously slow acting in fish.

    Further reading below:

    Use of Antibiotics in Ornamental Fish Aquaculture

    http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
    TRNANCE, Bob Escher, cracker and 8 others like this.

  2. mcarroll

    mcarroll PM me R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    13,775
    Likes Received:
    7,161
    Location:
    Virginia
    Please read this University of Fla. doc too before applying any antibiotics:
    Use of Antibiotics in Ornamental Fish Aquaculture

    It's targeted at aquaculture (fish farmers) and zoos, etc.....so don't get flustered by some of the terminology. Humblefish is our acting "fish health specialist" to use that doc's lingo. :)

    It makes a good compliment to the materials here.

    Our Con's list could probably be expanded quite a bit....but antibiotics is a complex topic and that may be beyond the scope of this post. So check out the link!

    Briefly, a couple quotes:
    "Antibiotics, in and of themselves, do not cure a fish. Antibiotics merely control the population growth of bacteria in a fish long enough for its immune system to eliminate them."

    "Before antibiotics are even considered, sources of stress such as poor water quality (including drastic temperature change), nutrition, genetics, and handling or transport must be removed or reduced."​

    It also includes a summary of the most common antibiotics and a table showing dosage rates.
     
    prsnlty, leahfiish and Humblefish like this.
  3. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    21,621
    Likes Received:
    29,963
    Added in this part about treating internal infections and food soaking:
    It's also not a bad idea to run carbon while food soaking any medication, just in case a little does leach out. ;)
     
    prsnlty, Empress and melypr1985 like this.
  4. prsnlty

    prsnlty Jackie R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    7,489
    Likes Received:
    4,851
    Location:
    Citrus Co, Florida
    Since I can't remove my fish from my tank without tearing the tank down, at the first sign no matter how minor it is that there's something wrong this is what I feed my fish. It has worked very well for me so far. [​IMG]
     
    Savage338 and Humblefish like this.
  5. dwwataz

    dwwataz nuttier than a squirrel turd R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2017
    Messages:
    1,039
    Likes Received:
    1,312
    Location:
    Annapolis, MD
    melypr1985 likes this.
  6. Eggpaul

    Eggpaul Active Member Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2018
    Messages:
    403
    Likes Received:
    177
    If adding the trio (or 1 of the trio) to a QT tank with live rock, what happens to that live rock? Can it be placed back into the sump sometime later? @Humblefish
     
  7. Eggpaul

    Eggpaul Active Member Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2018
    Messages:
    403
    Likes Received:
    177
  8. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    21,621
    Likes Received:
    29,963
    Unfortunately, biofilm and other bacteria found on LR would probably biodegrade the antibiotics: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/qt-and-biofilm.292878/
     
    4FordFamily and Eggpaul like this.
  9. Eggpaul

    Eggpaul Active Member Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2018
    Messages:
    403
    Likes Received:
    177
    Okay. So I should remove the live rock (1 large piece) before adding the medicine? I do have a filter pad in there also that used to be in the sump. Just thought I'd need the rock also for more filtration.
     
  10. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    21,621
    Likes Received:
    29,963
    Yes, you want to use antibiotics in as sterile an environment as possible.
     
    4FordFamily likes this.
  11. mcarroll

    mcarroll PM me R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    13,775
    Likes Received:
    7,161
    Location:
    Virginia
    Ideally treat when necessary in a hospital tank and them move them back to the QT with the live rock afterward.

    Don't use the QT as the treatment tank if you can help it....it just complicates an already complicated situation.
     
  12. Eggpaul

    Eggpaul Active Member Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2018
    Messages:
    403
    Likes Received:
    177
    So I need to have a hospital tank also? I thought that's what the QT is for. Can I just remove the rock when medication is needed? Maybe add another filter pad instead?
     
  13. Bob Escher

    Bob Escher Welcome to Saltwatef R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,694
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    Location:
    Nashotah Wisconsin
    Well here’s a pic of him in QT
    This fast he was fine last night
    Hm I only have furn to treat him with with

    4E52A00C-24F4-476D-AB85-7A2BEB26BC47.jpeg

    827598C5-037E-47D1-97EF-956265236F70.jpeg

    C1564B75-17A1-4859-8F53-22D29F00919E.jpeg
     
  14. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Article Contributor Hospitality Award Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    Messages:
    18,022
    Likes Received:
    36,795
    Location:
    Carmel, Indiana
    I always treat in quarantine and use the two interchangeably — this because I treat everything prophylactically to protect my fish in my DTs.
     
    Eggpaul likes this.
  15. pecan2phat

    pecan2phat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2010
    Messages:
    946
    Likes Received:
    410
    Location:
    CT
    So when you say treat for 10 consecutive days, follow the instructions on the label, I'm a bit confused.
    Furan-2 is a 4 dose protocol with a 25% water change in-between and another 25% water change on the 5th day.
    Are you suggesting that it should be full course dosed again for 2 treatments?
     
  16. pecan2phat

    pecan2phat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2010
    Messages:
    946
    Likes Received:
    410
    Location:
    CT
    bueller?
     
    Wen likes this.
  17. HotRocks

    HotRocks Fish Fanatic! Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2017
    Messages:
    6,558
    Likes Received:
    19,391
    Location:
    Westfield, Indiana
    This Sticky (Original Post) has been edited with new info. Reflecting up to date procedures and currently available products etc.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page