...are closed loops becoming obsolete?

myboyblu

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For me, I decided CL for the aesthetics alone. This is an expensive hobby with pumps, high-end led fixtures, cost of water, salt, charcoal, and the cost of the live stock. The extra $30 or $50 I spend to have a beautiful tank with minimal visual impairments is worth it. IMO. Maybe I'll do less water changes to offset the coat of my CL.
 

TaylorPilot

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Interesting topic. My opinion is that they both have their merits and should both be considered. It is kind of like a Rolex watch. A cereal box Mickey Mouse watch may keep better time, but there is still a very robust market for 20K+ dollar old school watches. Why? Because people find value in different things for different reasons. I think the efficiency thing is a little hard to nail down for several reasons. The main reason is in how the flow rates of a pump are measured or calculated. With traditional pumps, they usually use an inline meter that measures velocity of water flowing through a pipe. This method is pretty accurate, but is only a part of the equation. With powerheads, it is impossible to measure flow with a traditional meter, because there is no pipe and they are just sitting in open water. So they use smaller probes that measure the flow of water a certain distance in front of the powerhead from multiple positions to calculate water flow. So what is the difference? The difference is that one measures total "in-tank" flow (powerheads), and the other measures just the water in the pipe. When you have water flowing out of a pipe into an open body of water, it creates an area of low pressure right behind the outlet which draws more water from around the pipe into the stream, creating a larger body of flow. Eductors are designed to magnify this effect and can easily be seen to show how effective they are for pressure pumps (not so much with high flow, low pressure pumps we use on aquariums). Obviously, the effect is much smaller for typical outlets, but can't be ignored when discussing overall flow or power efficiency. I don't know of any studies done using powerhead style flow calculations for typical closed loop style systems. I imagine that powerheads are still more efficient, but probably not as much as people think. Secondly, for larger tanks, the ability to have outlets that aren't arranged on the outside glass can be a major benefit. When you have tanks that are 8' long and 4' wide, having the ability to arrange smaller outlets throughout the tank allow you to customize where the flow will go and how it will reduce both hot spots (high flow) and dead zones can't be understated. Finally, the ability to hide outlet pipes behind or in rock work can make a closed loop all but invisible.

For most people lower power consumption, and the ease of installing a powerhead in the corner and having it all setup in 10 minutes will be the deciding factor in setting up the flow in their tank. But for people who don't mind the added cost, the extra effort in setting it up, and those with large systems, a closed loop could provide the best solution for them. So no, I don't think they will ever be obsolete, it just depends on your preferences and situation. For me, if I ever get a large (400 gallon +) system that has a hybrid plastic bottom, and had the room for all the extra plumbing, I would almost insist on a closed loop. I would think that with the new market of cheaper controllable pumps, you could use two or more on independent systems that ramp up and down to give a more varied flow. I wouldn't be surprised to see a resurgence of closed loops, because that is what those pumps will really shine at!
 
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twilliard

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Interesting topic. My opinion is that they both have their merits and should both be considered. It is kind of like a Rolex watch. A cereal box Mickey Mouse watch may keep better time, but there is still a very robust market for 20K+ dollar old school watches. Why? Because people find value in different things for different reasons. I think the efficiency thing is a little hard to nail down for several reasons. The main reason is in how the flow rates of a pump are measured or calculated. With traditional pumps, they usually use an inline meter that measures velocity of water flowing through a pipe. This method is pretty accurate, but is only a part of the equation. With powerheads, it is impossible to measure flow with a traditional meter, because there is no pipe and they are just sitting in open water. So they use smaller probes that measure the flow of water a certain distance in front of the powerhead from multiple positions to calculate water flow. So what is the difference? The difference is that one measures total "in-tank" flow (powerheads), and the other measures just the water in the pipe. When you have water flowing out of a pipe into an open body of water, it creates an area of low pressure right behind the outlet which draws more water from around the pipe into the stream, creating a larger body of flow. Eductors are designed to magnify this effect and can easily been seen how effective they are for pressure pumps (not so much with high flow, low pressure pumps we use on aquariums). Obviously, the effect is much smaller for typical outlets, but can't be ignored when discussing overall flow or power efficiency. I don't know of any studies done using powerhead style flow calculations for typical closed loop style systems. I imagine that powerheads are still more efficient, but probably not as much as people think. Secondly, for larger tanks, the ability to have outlets that aren't arranged on the outside glass can be a major benefit. When you have tanks that are 8' long and 4' wide, having the ability to arrange smaller outlets throughout the tank allow you to customize where the flow will go and how it will reduce both hot spots (high flow) and dead zones can't be understated. Finally, the ability to hide outlet pipes behind or in rock work can make a closed loop all but invisible.

For most people lower power consumption, and the ease of installing a powerhead in the corner and having it all setup in 10 minutes will be the deciding factor in setting up the flow in their tank. But for people who don't mind the added cost, the extra effort in setting it up, and those with large systems, a closed loop could provide the best solution for them. So no, I don't think they will ever be obsolete, it just depends on your preferences and situation. For me, if I ever get a large (400 gallon +) system that has a hybrid plastic bottom, and had the room for all the extra plumbing, I would almost insist on a closed loop. I would think that with the new market of cheaper controllable pumps, you could use two or more on independent systems that ramp up and down to give a more varied flow. I wouldn't be surprised to see a resurgence of closed loops, because that is what those pumps will really shine at!
Thank you!
 

TaylorPilot

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For me, I decided CL for the aesthetics alone. This is an expensive hobby with pumps, high-end led fixtures, cost of water, salt, charcoal, and the cost of the live stock. The extra $30 or $50 I spend to have a beautiful tank with minimal visual impairments is worth it. IMO. Maybe I'll do less water changes to offset the coat of my CL.

First post! Welcome to Reef2Reef!
 

realreef7

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Just finished all the plumbing for my closed loop system last night on the 300g sps build. Personally, I feel closed loop is the way to go on a bigger system. Also looks so much cleaner without all the powerheads.
 

TaylorPilot

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Just finished all the plumbing for my closed loop system last night on the 300g sps build. Personally, I feel closed loop is the way to go on a bigger system. Also looks so much cleaner without all the powerheads.

Are you putting together a build thread? We would all like to see it.
 

sheldonjjessup

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I am working with the local zoo, and the zoo's prefer to have a closed loop over power heads as they are safer for the species within the tanks, just another food for tbought
 

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