Are there any clean up crew vendors we trust enough not to quarantine?

[MnFish1]

I agree that a vendor's definition of a pest and even one reefer vs another reefer's definition of a pest can and does vary. That's why I find leaving an honest review about a vendor difficult. I had to change my terminology in a review once because a vendor believed I was misleading people using the word "pest." According to the vendor, all tanks have algae, but I introduced Bryopsis and turf algae to my quarantine tank even after dipping. It took over my quarantine tank and an extended floconazole treatment had to be done. My whole tank was thrown out of whack after the treatment. I lost some of my more sensitive coral frags, and most of my anemones, and I'm still trying to get things back in order in that tank months later...so yes, I define some algaes as pests, even plagues. If it means anything, the cleanest frags I've ever purchased came from Aqua SD. I would not hesitate to buy from this vendor again.

All tanks do have algae. If you think you can 'QT' out algae I disagree.

 

[CMO]

All tanks do have algae. If you think you can 'QT' out algae I disagree.

IMO the only one common algae that really matters here is bryopsis since its so hard to find things to eat. It. While not easy, I think it is preventable with the procedures I've laid out. But then again, what I described earlier in this thread isn't QT at all so maybe we're on the same page. I also do peroxide dips of any exposed skeleton to to kill algae. And then the little bit of skeleton that might remain after trimming (acans for example) I cover with glue when placing in the tank. If bryopsis can make it through this, I give up. lol

Oh and to really agree with your point. I have 100% received bryopisis on frag plugs from some of the most highly respected shops that run a "full QT" of all corals. Thus my trying something different here.

 

[CMO]

I agree that a vendor's definition of a pest and even one reefer vs another reefer's definition of a pest can and does vary. That's why I find leaving an honest review about a vendor difficult. I had to change my terminology in a review once because a vendor believed I was misleading people using the word "pest." According to the vendor, all tanks have algae, but I introduced Bryopsis and turf algae to my quarantine tank even after dipping. It took over my quarantine tank and an extended floconazole treatment had to be done. My whole tank was thrown out of whack after the treatment. I lost some of my more sensitive coral frags, and most of my anemones, and I'm still trying to get things back in order in that tank months later...so yes, I define some algaes as pests, even plagues. If it means anything, the cleanest frags I've ever purchased came from Aqua SD. I would not hesitate to buy from this vendor again.

Agreed. It works (kind of after repeat treatment IME) but is not without a headache and a big disruption to water chemistry (due to corals shutting down alk consumption by my observation which can't be a good sign). A floconazole treatment on my tank is about a 3 month ordeal until things are totally back to normal (or even much longer for the few acros that seem to loose PE for a very extended time post treatment). Not fun.

 

[Sashaka]

All tanks do have algae. If you think you can 'QT' out algae I disagree.

Yes, while all tanks develop algae given the right tank conditions, Bryopsis and turf algae (pest algae IMO) must be introduced. I did dip with CoralX and H202. I still ended up with these algae; however, I admit I was out of plugs at the time, so I did not remove the plugs from the new corals. I soaked them a bit longer and crossed my fingers. That was my biggest mistake.

 

[Sashaka]

What’s happening continually on these threads at the moment is followers of humble fish and hotrocks et al, are voicing there opinions second hand and without all of the knowledge and experience that these few people have, and talk for them and misquote on so many occasions...

I'm suddenly feeling quite discouraged. I feel like I might be one of the people that you're talking about. I've been keeping saltwater tanks for 10 years and I'm still coming across things I've never seen or dealt with before, so I still turn to others here for advice, and I'm grateful for that advice, both the pros and cons of which I know I will need to wade through. I know I will need to choose the path I feel most capable of carrying out with some degree of success - based on my own level of comfort in the hobby. The fact that I share my experiential and secondhand knowledge with others seeking help is meant to support R2R members, give something back. It is not meant to annoy.

I do treat prophylactically. As humans, we are creatures driven to make decisions based on personal experiences. For example, my dogs may not have visible tics on their bodies, but I know the odds are high a tic will eventually bite one of my dogs for two reasons. 1) I live out in the middle of nowhere, prime tic country. 2) I've been bitten multiple times myself over the years in my own backyard. So, I'm going to use flee meds prophylactically. Likewise, I've had enough fish come to me sick from multiple places both from LFS and online vendors to know the odds are not in my favor that I will not get in a sick fish. Isn't R2R all about encouraging each other to find enjoyment in this hobby regardless of which side of the tank we swim in when it comes to prophylactic treatments?

Though I often post links shared by people I feel are experts here at R2R, (@Humblefish and @HotRocks among others) I know not everyone will agree with some of the directions I provide or even agree with the 'experts' I choose to put my trust in and reference. I know that success in this hobby can be found through different methods and no one way is all right or all wrong. I do try to give credit to authors when I know where the info came from using an @ symbol or a link to a specific post, but after years in the hobby, the truth is I don't always remember where I have learn all the practices I do to take care of my tanks. Sadly, some of what I do has been learned through trial and error before finding R2R. If sharing that info is being presumptuous or impudent-seen as a way of pushing unfounded personal opinions about the hobby onto others, my sincere apologies. That was not my intention. I simply want to help others find joy in the hobby. I didn't realize responding as I was doing was wrong or in the very least annoying to long-time reefers. ;Wideyed

 

[MnFish1]

Yes, while all tanks develop algae given the right tank conditions, Bryopsis and turf algae (pest algae IMO) must be introduced. I did dip with CoralX and H202. I still ended up with these algae; however, I admit I was out of plugs at the time, so I did not remove the plugs from the new corals. I soaked them a bit longer and crossed my fingers. That was my biggest mistake.

I do not think you can kill spores from algae such as those with a dip. They are microscopic. Interestingly. I had a leather coral that I pulled off a rock (it was huge) 6 years ago - there was a piece left that was less than 1/8 of an inch. Over the least year (in the same spot.) the leather coral is growing back. In order to have these algae grow - you need to have the 'conditions' in the tank for them to grow - avoid these - and you will not have 'pest algae'

 

[MnFish1]

I'm suddenly feeling quite discouraged. I feel like I might be one of the people that you're talking about. I've been keeping saltwater tanks for 10 years and I'm still coming across things I've never seen or dealt with before, so I still turn to others here for advice, and I'm grateful for that advice, both the pros and cons of which I know I will need to wade through. I know I will need to choose the path I feel most capable of carrying out with some degree of success - based on my own level of comfort in the hobby. The fact that I share my experiential and secondhand knowledge with others seeking help is meant to support R2R members, give something back. It is not meant to annoy.

I do treat prophylactically. As humans, we are creatures driven to make decisions based on personal experiences. For example, my dogs may not have visible tics on their bodies, but I know the odds are high a tic will eventually bite one of my dogs for two reasons. 1) I live out in the middle of nowhere, prime tic country. 2) I've been bitten multiple times myself over the years in my own backyard. So, I'm going to use flee meds prophylactically. Likewise, I've had enough fish come to me sick from multiple places both from LFS and online vendors to know the odds are not in my favor that I will not get in a sick fish. Isn't R2R all about encouraging each other to find enjoyment in this hobby regardless of which side of the tank we swim in when it comes to prophylactic treatments?

Though I often post links shared by people I feel are experts here at R2R, (@Humblefish and @HotRocks among others) I know not everyone will agree with some of the directions I provide or even agree with the 'experts' I choose to put my trust in and reference. I know that success in this hobby can be found through different methods and no one way is all right or all wrong. I do try to give credit to authors when I know where the info came from using an @ symbol or a link to a specific post, but after years in the hobby, the truth is I don't always remember where I have learn all the practices I do to take care of my tanks. Sadly, some of what I do has been learned through trial and error before finding R2R. If sharing that info is being presumptuous or impudent-seen as a way of pushing unfounded personal opinions about the hobby onto others, my sincere apologies. That was not my intention. I simply want to help others find joy in the hobby. I didn't realize responding as I was doing was wrong or in the very least annoying to long-time reefers. ;Wideyed

I dont think anyone said or implied that you did anything wrong?

 

[HotRocks]

Wow this thread... LOL

The good ol QT or not to QT debate!

Honestly I think the best thing to do is pick a system and stick with it. Find someone that can show you results and provide ALL of the info that leads to their success!

I would not put anything in any of my tanks that hasn’t gone through a fallow period. That’s just me though and I am definitely on the extreme pro QT end of the debate. I don’t have any problem with someone that doesn’t, will even gladly help them down the road if they encounter an issue. If someone asks me for my recommendation I will share “what I would do”.

 

[bluprntguy]

It's kind of sad that this thread devolved into this discussion at all. The OP has clearly made a decision to quarantine and simply asked if there were any vendors that took this seriously enough to rely on their QT without further QT once it was shipped.
IMO, the mods should have removed all of the "don't quarantine" posts as off topic rather than letting the thread be derailed to the point I'm sure the OP has unsubscribed the thread,.

 

[Signalhead]

I hate it when mommy and daddy fight.

 

[MnFish1]

I hate it when mommy and daddy fight.

I think this would be more like a first cousin lol

 

[Signalhead]

I think this would be more like a first cousin lol

Poor OP, I bet he regrets asking about a trusting a vendor enough not to QT. The CUC

 

[MnFish1]

Poor OP, I bet he regrets asking about a trusting a vendor enough not to QT. The CUC

Is there a vendor that does not recommend QT? The risk is extremely low - and IMO you cant QT for an algae spore etc. I think though - if I get a CUC again - I WILL put them in a separate tank - if only to see 'how many are actually alive' and how many are not. Thats a far bigger issue to me - I.e. you dump them in your tank - and - how do you tell what percent were 'DOA'. This might be the benefit of this thread.

 

[Signalhead]

Is there a vendor that does not recommend QT? The risk is extremely low - and IMO you cant QT for an algae spore etc. I think though - if I get a CUC again - I WILL put them in a separate tank - if only to see 'how many are actually alive' and how many are not. Thats a far bigger issue to me - I.e. you dump them in your tank - and - how do you tell what percent were 'DOA'. This might be the benefit of this thread.

CUC I go to the local store....and i dont QT his stuff, another store with in a doubt

 

[MnFish1]

CUC I go to the local store....and i dont QT his stuff, another store with in a doubt

The thing is. The risk is extremely small either way. If there are no fish in the tank. Some people advocating QT seem to want an 100% guarantee...... that is never possible.

 

[MnFish1]

IMO the only one common algae that really matters here is bryopsis since its so hard to find things to eat. It. While not easy, I think it is preventable with the procedures I've laid out. But then again, what I described earlier in this thread isn't QT at all so maybe we're on the same page. I also do peroxide dips of any exposed skeleton to to kill algae. And then the little bit of skeleton that might remain after trimming (acans for example) I cover with glue when placing in the tank. If bryopsis can make it through this, I give up. lol

Oh and to really agree with your point. I have 100% received bryopisis on frag plugs from some of the most highly respected shops that run a "full QT" of all corals. Thus my trying something different here.

OK so I will agree - there is no way to QT against bryopsis. No one knows how long the spores from them last.

 

[MnFish1]

Wow this thread... LOL

The good ol QT or not to QT debate!

Honestly I think the best thing to do is pick a system and stick with it. Find someone that can show you results and provide ALL of the info that leads to their success!

I would not put anything in any of my tanks that hasn’t gone through a fallow period. That’s just me though and I am definitely on the extreme pro QT end of the debate. I don’t have any problem with someone that doesn’t, will even gladly help them down the road if they encounter an issue. If someone asks me for my recommendation I will share “what I would do”.

I do not think this the good old debate... People are not talking about 76 day fallow periods - they are also talking about algae etc. So - Im asking 'what would you do' to prevent algae spores from being on a CUC

 

[HotRocks]

I do not think this the good old debate... People are not talking about 76 day fallow periods - they are also talking about algae etc. So - Im asking 'what would you do' to prevent algae spores from being on a CUC

I don't care about algae, its never been a problem for me, because my tanks have algae. I guess you could scrub their shells. I only worry about introducing parasites. That is why I fallow...

If your nutrients are under control wouldn't it be a non-issue anyway?

 

[MnFish1]

IMO the only one common algae that really matters here is bryopsis since its so hard to find things to eat. It. While not easy, I think it is preventable with the procedures I've laid out. But then again, what I described earlier in this thread isn't QT at all so maybe we're on the same page. I also do peroxide dips of any exposed skeleton to to kill algae. And then the little bit of skeleton that might remain after trimming (acans for example) I cover with glue when placing in the tank. If bryopsis can make it through this, I give up. lol

Oh and to really agree with your point. I have 100% received bryopisis on frag plugs from some of the most highly respected shops that run a "full QT" of all corals. Thus my trying something different here.

What do you base those procedures on? I have had tanks for >20 years and have never had a problem. Having done nothing. So - how do you know that your procedures had an effect vs just luck?

Thats a serious question BTW - not a snarky reply. How do you know that peroxide 'dips' has any effects on bryopsis?

 

[MnFish1]

I don't care about algae, its never been a problem for me, because my tanks have algae. I guess you could scrub their shells. I only worry about introducing parasites. That is why I fallow...

If your nutrients are under control wouldn't it be a non-issue anyway?

Right = thats what this has devolved into