Are you using any supplements to grow Chaetomorpha? Do you have some other tips for Chaeto growing?

[Japtastic]

When using Cheato one may know what and how much exactly is removed from the system after harvesting the Cheato by the dry weight. I doubt skimming, gfo or carbon dosing may be able to accomplish the same results.
A skimmer removes +- 35% of TOC incl DOC leaving +-65% mainly hydrophilic and polar compounds. A skimmer is very selective in removing bio-mass.
What exactly is removed and how much is difficult to determine and can not be estimated.
Carbon dosing may or may not remove nutrients and building materials , the removal rate is not known and can not be estimated. As it messes up the entire balance in the tank as mainly ammonium-nitrogen is removed by outcompeting Photo- autotrophs and Nitrifiers for this nitrogen source, the final result will be completely different.


Using Chaeto or other photo-autotrophs to remove nitrogen and phosphor it is possible to refurnish building materials based on what is harvested.

I agree completely. Keep it natural where you can. I’m reducing carbon dosing now to remove it completely and only use Chaeto as nutrient export.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Why nitrate and phosphate may build up in a well-lit aquarium and is not used up by the photo-autotrophs?
As a skimmer removes DOC constantly but very selective probably one or more essential building materials are used up limiting photo-autothrophic and other growth. As Algae have to produce +- 80 x more bio-mass compared to nitrifiers to reduce the same amount of ammonium ( heterotrophs +-40 x) it is logic nitrate is produced when building materials and organic carbon are limited available .
The assimilation of nitrate-nitrogen needs a lot more energy as the assimilation of ammonium-nitrogen and the availability of iron is essential for nitrate-nitrogen take up ( nitrate-reductase) but also a lot of other minor elements. As algae and other photo-autotrophs have an unlimited energy source they are favored for using nitrate-nitrogen and may outcompete heterotrophs for this nitrogen source.
.
Providing the essential building materials should solve the problem, for example by a modified F/2 medium leaving out the target nutrients. (nitrogen and phosphorus?). I would use a bit more medium as included in the dry weight harvested.
Just reducing the removal rate of the skimmer may do wonders when using an algae scrubber.
Do not forget the carbon! Algae have a high need for carbon so the the gas exchange must be optimal.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

once cheato depletes nitrates it will stop growing, so sometimes a lower intensity light can work really well, even better than the h380 IME. I have to dose nitrates even though my phosphates are high.

Photo-autotrops including Cheato prefer ammonia-nitrogen as a nitrogen source for growth. When using nitrate-nitrogen ( if ammonium is not available) the growth rate may slow down as they have to transform internally the nitrate to nitrite and into ammonia before the nitrogen can be used needing a lot more energy. Why dosing nitrate? I suppose a skimmer is used.

 

[EmdeReef]

I can’t access the article, pls
post the title. It is pretty well known that Chaeto and other algae prefer ammonia nitrogen, that’s why some use it for cycling tanks.

However, in a properly cycled tank, the levels of ammonium will be low or close to zero as nitryfying bacteria will be far more efficient at consuming it than algae.

Nitrates are usually most readily available source of nitrogen in reef tanks. I suppose dosing small quantities of ammonia would work but dosing nitrates is far safer. Also for our purposes, the growth rates will be comparable or difficult to notice.

I run a skimmer but skimmers, unless heavily oversized, will not zero nitrates. In my case if i switch fuge lights to every other day I will have detectable nitrates.

Hope that helps.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

I can’t access the article, pls
post the title.

One has to register to enter most pages of our wiki Makazi Baharini, originally written in Dutch. After registration you will receive an entrance code. There is a link on the access denied page or login page to the registration page. The article referenced to is the original Dutch version and has yet not been translated. Most references used in the wiki articles are in English and can be consulted read only. A lot of wiki pages are translated to English.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

By managing the skimmer removal rate the availability of other building materials and algae growth may be managed.
Adding nitrate ( nitrogen) to make the assimilation of phosphate possible? For me it is weird nitrogen becomes the limiting factor for growth in a closed aquarium system. Using a skimmer there is always to much of it. I try to keep measurable levels ( +-0.5 -1 ppm NO3-N) to make sure nitrate-nitrogen does not become a limiting factor as nitrate is very important in a closed system. There should be enough nitrate as a skimmer removes some of the other building materials continuously.
Maintaining the nitrate level at +- 4 ppm NO3 makes easy management of the nitrate level possible as the nitrate production and removal rate easily can be managed and followed up .
If nitrate and or phosphate may build up in a well-lit system and algae growth is limited, maybe it is best only to remove what is not needed and not stimulate growth by adding more building materials. The algae may not only grow in the refuge or scrubber. A choice to make.

 

[EmdeReef]

Macroalgae takes N and P in a roughly 30:1 ratio. My reason for keeping a fuge is to keep phosphates in check. Dosing nitrates helps with that. I’m trying to see if I can tune things so I don’t have to run GFO or dose LaCl.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Macroalgae takes N and P in a roughly 30:1 ratio. My reason for keeping a fuge is to keep phosphates in check. Dosing nitrates helps with that. I’m trying to see if I can tune things so I don’t have to run GFO or dose LaCl.

Weird nitrate must be added and other building materials stay available for the algae to use it up? What may be the reason nitrate is limited available? A high denitrification rate?

 

[EmdeReef]

Weird nitrate must be added and other building materials stay available for the algae to use it up? What may be the reason nitrate is limited available? A high denitrification rate?

Yes, I think Chaeto when properly lit is very good at exporting nitrates, not so great about phosphates. That said it does require potassium, iron, and managanase to grow. I dose trace elements for my corals and I’m sure chaeto uses some othe elements in smaller quantities. I add iron when I remember.

 

[Lousybreed]

Yes, I think Chaeto when properly lit is very good at exporting nitrates, not so great about phosphates. That said it does require potassium, iron, and managanase to grow. I dose trace elements for my corals and I’m sure chaeto uses some othe elements in smaller quantities. I add iron when I remember.

This is my experience too. Good at nitrate removal but only decent at phosphates. I dose traces and my ICP results tell me that cheato does selectively use nutrients. I cannot get iron to register no matter how much I dose (within reason).

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Yes, I think Chaeto when properly lit is very good at exporting nitrates, not so great about phosphates. That said it does require potassium, iron, and managanase to grow. I dose trace elements for my corals and I’m sure chaeto uses some othe elements in smaller quantities. I add iron when I remember.

Algae transform nitrate internally into NH3 , the nitrogen source they are able to use, depending of growth some is stored for later use but some will be released. Algae growing on nitrate-nitrogen release ammonia! The nitrate uptake may be a lot higher in relation to the phosphate uptake but a lot of the nitrogen not used up will be released back into the aquarium as ammonia. As some ammonia is stored for later use this may be harvested when this is done the right moment, increasing the nitrogen removal.
Assimilating the produced and released ammonia will lower phosphate, if not it will be nitrified producing nitrate. C:N ratio's may be influenced a lot by the environment and light but N : P ratio's are not influenced much. Photosynthesis is dependable of the nitrogen availability as are the colour pigments needed to use light. 1.5 x more photons are needed when nitrate- nitrogen is used as nitrogen source for photosynthesis.
This will not explain why nitrate must be supplemented as most nitrogen produced is released directly in the water column as ammonia and urea while the same time a skimmer removes some of the other building materials constantly. Growth should be limited by the availability of other building materials and nitrogen should not be the limiting factor here. The denitrification rate may be the reason.

 

[BeejReef]

I have been trying to grow chaeto in three different sumps. It would just slowly disappear. I tried all kind of lights cfl's, leds with no luck. I was at a frag show and ran into another member told him I was looking for some chaeto.... He said he was throwing away a bunch each month. I told him my issue. " You need these lights from E-Bay. I got three of them for each sump. It is growing so fast now I am thinning it out. Grows like crazy.

I just thought I would share.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/120W-UFO-L...4bfb9d1c:m:m4xfeZLwP15i-GB9tndw2BA:rk:10f:0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/150W-UFO-L...h=item1a2118bb36:g:y~AAAOSwo4pYQnbZ:rk:7f:0

jhoop

same... grew quite fast with that (or very, very similar light). You got a better price than me
Still, growth has slowed, from doubling every two to three weeks down to only keeping up with the handful or two I throw away a week. Fuge is my primary/only real filtration or export. Snooping around to see if I need to supplement.

 

[SantaMonica]

It's not supplements, it's lower nutrients in the water. Chaeto has a hard time, usually, with lower nutrients. GHA will usually take over at that point.

 

[BeejReef]

It's not supplements, it's lower nutrients in the water. Chaeto has a hard time, usually, with lower nutrients. GHA will usually take over at that point.

That makes sense looking at it. I do notice more clumps of GHA growing in my fuge than I used to. Happily, it's an academic question at this point. My display is, thankfully, algae free. Nitrate is higher than I would like though... btwn 15 and 20, and will creep up higher without weekly WC.

I have to dose phosphate or it drops to undetectable. I keep it at about .15.
For a few months, I was able to regulate N by dosing (or not) P. That no longer really works like it used to though. If I dose more phosphate, I get higher phosphate levels without an obvious and immediate drop in N. A few months ago, if I dosed P for 3 days in a row, I could near zero N. Something has changed. I did add a few small fish. Perhaps I'm at my export limit for fuge only. Doesn't feel like it though. Sent out my first ICP a week ago at around 6 mo. Will report back.

ty

 

[bluprntguy]

Anyone ever test their PAR shining on their macro-algae?

I grow chaeto in pod cultures that are sitting on an unlit shelf about 5' from a north facing window. IME, if you have enough ammonia, nitrates, and phosphates then chaeto needs very little light.