Auto fill brute programming

[ifreefingwasaperson]

Equipment:

apex a3
brute trash can
2- magnetic optical sensors(mxbnlo,mxbnhi)
1- solenoid (rodi_noid)
adjustable float vale

when the mxbnLo sensor is open(low on water), open solenoid, fill water to mxbnhi. I would also like to put a limit on the time it takes to fill/run. It takes the brute 3 hr to fill. Any other tips would be appreciated as far as failsafes

 

[ifreefingwasaperson]

Equipment:

apex a3
brute trash can
2- magnetic optical sensors(mxbnlo,mxbnhi)
1- solenoid (rodi_noid)
adjustable float vale

when the mxbnLo sensor is open(low on water), open solenoid, fill water to mxbnhi. I would also like to put a limit on the time it takes to fill/run. It takes the brute 3 hr to fill. Any other tips would be appreciated as far as failsafes

Fallback off
if mxbnlo open then on
if mxbnhi closed then off
???

 

[Sean Clark]

Solenoid outlet:
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If mxblo open Then ON
If mbxhi closed Then OFF
When On > 180:00 Then OFF
Defer 001:00 Then ON
Defer 000:10 Then OFF

The When statement will set the slide switch on the dashboard from AUTO to OFF and will need to be manually set back to AUTO to function again. This will act as a safety timer. You will need to adjust it to suit your ro system. This is in minutes so 180 min = 3 hours.

I would set the When timer very high and then fill your can from empty Then check the log to see how long your solenoid was on. Then set the time a little longer than the run time to prevent false triggers.

The first Defer statement keeps your solenoid off for 1 min after the mbxlo opens to prevent false open triggers by water movements when low.
The second Defer statement keeps your solenoid on for 10 seconds after mixing closes.

 

[ifreefingwasaperson]

Solenoid outlet:
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If mxblo open Then ON
If mbxhi closed Then OFF
When On > 180:00 Then OFF
Defer 001:00 Then ON
Defer 000:10 Then OFF

The When statement will set the slide switch on the dashboard from AUTO to OFF and will need to be manually set back to AUTO to function again. This will act as a safety timer. You will need to adjust it to suit your ro system. This is in minutes so 180 min = 3 hours.

I would set the When timer very high and then fill your can from empty Then check the log to see how long your solenoid was on. Then set the time a little longer than the run time to prevent false triggers.

The first Defer statement keeps your solenoid off for 1 min after the mbxlo opens to prevent false open triggers by water movements when low.
The second Defer statement keeps your solenoid on for 10 seconds after mixing closes.

Ok cool. Thanks. Two questions what’s the set off do? The second defer keeps noid on for 10 seconds after mixing closes?

 

[Sean Clark]

Ok cool. Thanks. Two questions what’s the set off do? The second defer keeps noid on for 10 seconds after mixing closes?

Set OFF just establishes the starting state. Basicly it is off unless something tells it to turn on.

Yes the second Defer keeps the solenoid on for 10 seconds after the upper optical sensor is tripped. This adds some stability to the setup. You can exclude this line if you prefer but don't be surprised if your upper sensor reads open after the unit stops filling even though it is full. I know the logic seams a bit backwards to keep it open after it is full. 10 seconds of rodi output is basicly nothing.

 

[ifreefingwasaperson]

Set OFF just establishes the starting state. Basicly it is off unless something tells it to turn on.

Yes the second Defer keeps the solenoid on for 10 seconds after the upper optical sensor is tripped. This adds some stability to the setup. You can exclude this line if you prefer but don't be surprised if your upper sensor reads open after the unit stops filling even though it is full. I know the logic seams a bit backwards to keep it open after it is full. 10 seconds of rodi output is basicly nothing.

Ok got it! Thanks

one more question you could possibly help with. Since this is my salt mixing brute for my dos awc. Should I add if mxbnlo open then off for dos add and if sump Lo open then off for dos remove?

 

[Sean Clark]

Ok got it! Thanks

one more question you could possibly help with. Since this is my salt mixing brute for my dos awc. Should I add if mxbnlo open then off for dos add and if sump Lo open then off for dos remove?

Those both sound like good ideas for your application. Keep in mind that Apex handles the code as line 1 being least restrictive and the last line being most restrictive so you would probably want both of those towards the end of the programing.

I would run a lower sump lo switch for that and not use your regular ato switch for the low level action. Maybe you do that already. I am just thinking out loud.

 

[ifreefingwasaperson]

Thanks for your time. I ran across a thread ” read this first new apex users”. It mentioned not using the set off line if using two “if” lines. What are your thoughts on that?

 

[ifreefingwasaperson]

Post written by russm

 

[Sean Clark]

Thanks for your time. I ran across a thread ” read this first new apex users”. It mentioned not using the set off line if using two “if” lines. What are your thoughts on that?

That sounds good in theory and I do not have an argument against it. RussM is a smart person and very helpful on that forum.

I will offer this as a counter point:
When you run a "Task" function in Fusion and allow the Apex to write the program for you the Set function is almost always used. This is an example of what the Apex Fusion engineers felt was the "Best" programing for an auto top off using their ATK and the Task function.

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Sump_1 OPEN Then ON
If Sump_2 CLOSED Then OFF
When On > 005:00 Then OFF
Defer 000:10 Then ON
Defer 000:04 Then OFF
Min Time 060:00 Then OFF

Notice the two If statements after the Set statement.

I am sure either way would work acceptably.

 

[ifreefingwasaperson]

I got it. Thanks. The fallback is if communication is lost. The set is the normal condition you want, wether its on or off. what is the purpose of the min. statement in that example?

 

[Sean Clark]

I got it. Thanks. The fallback is if communication is lost. The set is the normal condition you want, wether its on or off. what is the purpose of the min. statement in that example?

The min statement keeps the outlet from coming back on unless a minimum of 60 minutes has elapsed. So even if the sump wants more water in say 45 minutes, it won't allow the pump to turn back on until 60 minutes after its last on state.

The idea being that by limiting the cycles you save some wear and tear on your pump by not adding a bunch of small insignificant amounts of water every few minutes. Instead it will add larger amounts of water less frequently.

 

[Sean Clark]

I should have included that you can also add the line:

IF Error (solenoid valve outlet name) Then ON

To your Email_Alarm output programing to send you an alert if the When statement ever times out so you will know that you need to check on your brute can and reset the switch from OFF back to AUTO.

 

[ifreefingwasaperson]

I should have included that you can also add the line:

IF Error (solenoid valve outlet name) Then ON

To your Email_Alarm output programing to send you an alert if the When statement ever times out so you will know that you need to check on your brute can and reset the switch from OFF back to AUTO.

You must’ve read my mind. Thanks a lot. Question? What puts in in error? Oh ok I see. When the when line time runs out (180 minutes)?

 

[ifreefingwasaperson]

You must’ve read my mind. Thanks a lot. Question? What puts in in error? Oh ok I see. When the when line time runs out (180 minutes)?

Another question? Can a time limit be placed on the dos add as like a failsafe if the bin is low. Kinda like stopping the dos from sucking air if the low sensor failed. I run the dos awc m-f I believe at 2 gallons per day, 10 gallons a week. 32 gal brute which is probably holding 30 gallons. Kinda like the reverse of the when statement you helped with above Which was the fill side. I’m trying to cover the empty side of it.

 

[ifreefingwasaperson]

Maybe one more question ? How do I turn outlet 6 off which is the return pump when sump lo is open?

 

[ifreefingwasaperson]

Should I add the same error line in the alarm configuration ? Thoughts

 

[Sean Clark]

You must’ve read my mind. Thanks a lot. Question? What puts in in error? Oh ok I see. When the when line time runs out (180 minutes)?

Correct.

Another question? Can a time limit be placed on the dos add as like a failsafe if the bin is low. Kinda like stopping the dos from sucking air if the low sensor failed. I run the dos awc m-f I believe at 2 gallons per day, 10 gallons a week. 32 gal brute which is probably holding 30 gallons. Kinda like the reverse of the when statement you helped with above Which was the fill side. I’m trying to cover the empty side of it.

This could be achieved with the use of a virtual outlet; I think the easiest way would be to utilize a third switch/sensor as a redundant back up low trigger.

I have not used the new MOS yet but the previous optical sensors both v1 and v2 are far from great and do fail. So I have redundant switch/sensors on everything. I like a combination of different technologies float and optical.

Maybe one more question ? How do I turn outlet 6 off which is the return pump when sump lo is open?

Add this line into your outlet 6 programing:

If sump_lo open Then off

If you do this I would add this same line to your protein skimmer outlet to prevent a skimmer overflow when your return pump shuts down.

You could also add a statement to shut your skimmer off anytime your return pump is off which is arguably safer than having a different line for every circumstance.

If outlet_6 off then off

Should I add the same error line in the alarm configuration ? Thoughts

I guess I do not understand exactly what you mean. The Email_Alarm is the standard alarm output for alerts.

The other alarms are set up for the display and FMM modules. They will not push alerts to your phone or send emails.

 

[ifreefingwasaperson]

Ok great. On my outlet 6 its listed as return pump do I have to change it to advanced in order to add that line

 

[ifreefingwasaperson]

I appreciate your help. I’m sure you can tell I’m s newbie but getting the hang of it