Auto water change

[B-ridge]

can someone please help me try to figure out how to do a auto water change system?
I tried to log onto apex fusion but it won't let me until I register my apex
I have a idea on how I want to do this but since I've never hooked a apex up before I have no idea.
I am terrible at programming and have no one close to me in New York to help me

 

[James Kanouff]

I suggest, first calculate the evaporation per day, and send that amount to the tank on a schedule. for example 1 gallon of RODI per day each day. via a dosing pump or something for safety.

Then Personally I use a liter meter from spectra pure, but any two head reliable doser pump can work, and send x amount of SW a day to the system and draw a slightly larger amount, off the high water mark, from the system to a drain. Say maybe 10% of the total system water volume to get a 10% Wc per month.

BRS has several one ml/ minute dosing pumps that can manage specific amounts of water per minute in n out of systems. i believe the Apex dose will also work with these sort of criteria. minus the ATO amount which i highly suggest you do not use a float switch type system to control form any system especially one with a auto water changed attacked.

You will have to modify the amounts seasonally due to carried evaporation rates.. but over all the 1.025 salt water always tries to bring the system back inline.

there are several other methods but i find this pretty fail safe and how i do mine.

 

[B-ridge]

And why would you not suggest the float switches? Getting stuck or dirty I'm assuming

 

[p7willm]

Anything, including you, that you use to change water will eventually break. You just want to avoid killing fish and soaking your living room.

I use a DOS to to change 860 ml a day. I have a conductivity probe that will shut it down if the salinity drops too far. I have float switches that will stop it if the water in the sump gets too low or high. I turn my ATO off while changing water just to keep it simple. And I check salinity with a refractometer weekly.

The DOS is accurate enough that it pulls and adds the same amount of water and if that is the way you decide to go there are instructions, and programs, in the DOS manual.

If you use other dosing pumps check how much they add/remove and try to match them. The DOS is nice with the Apex cause you can just say how much you want and the Apex does the math.

 

[B-ridge]

See my plan was to use 3 float switches. 1 in rodi for top off and 2 in the sump. Float switch in sump at high and low. During automatic water change the pump I have in sump will drain water until it hits the low float switch. After pump stops draining the pump in saltwater tank will then begin to fill sump back up until it hits the high float switch.
Only problem with my plan right now that I'm thinking about it is how will I control the evaporation and ato?

 

[p7willm]

Water change and ATO are two different things and should be handled by different systems.

I have an ATO that when water gets low it turns the pump on and adds DI water until the switch goes off. The switch turns on/off a little bit apart so the ATO is not constantly cycling with little waves.

The problem with float switches for water change is that they are not that accurate on water that may have some small waves. How much water will it take to raise/lower the area you are measuring the level in? My return fluctuates around 1/4 inch with evaporation and top off and it takes 1/4 gallon to raise it. So if the water change starts off 1/4 inch low I will add 1/4 gallon more salt water than I take out. Not a problem once but I change water daily and that will add up quite quickly.

 

[B-ridge]

My main tank is 240 gallons. My sump is 125. My fuge is 75 gallons. So my total water volume would be 300-320 gallons of water.
Rule of thumb is 10-20% of water a month. That would equate to 30/32-60/64 gallons a month. My game plan would be 3-4 gallons a week spread out over 5 days. Saturday and Sunday will be my day to make up a new fresh batch of saltwater

 

[James Kanouff]

When you control by a flat switch many variables from skimmer function evaporation rate, how dirty your socks or preflight's are, to small flow changes on equipment like creactors drive the floats switches crazy.

When you calculate/ control the amount of water via a doser, you eliminate most of those issues. and for further safety have planed off times and limited amount of water available to said dose pumps which adds safety to the system. i manage my evap by the calculated about i looses day to day. and my sale hate r via the amount of over all late ri want to change day to day/ month to month/ yr to yr.
all my dosers have a level switch not hem to also shut them down if they get out of my desired zone when possible. Liter meter systems can do this on the remote doser modules. they can be float controlled as well as time controlled. or a diy can be made as well.

 

[B-ridge]

Can these liter meters be controlled through apex also? Seems like there more reliable in a sense. Safer

 

[James Kanouff]

Its more of a stand alone system. I go slightly the direction on not all my eggs in one basket, not because i don't appreciate automation but i know if my apex fails, and everything relies on it.. I'm screwed.

First This system does not have back up power via an APC battery back up unit so that if power fails water is not being moved around from non normal running level marks!
My system uses Spectra Pure's liter miter type dosing pumps with integrated control timers to divine all values up into small amount every 20 minutes ish all day long for a final total of the value i set per day.
The auto water change tasks and ato jobs on all systems total for six dosers. Two main units four slaves some of which are float switch enabled from the factory for redundancy over my measured amounts. for example. my main display sends 1.9 liters a day of ATO which has KALK in it to the display only if the float on the doser is under the normal water level. Its slightly more than my normal evaporation rate. which can vary a bit day to day on this 550 gallon system.

My salt water pump runs .15 liters per day of new SW to the system, no floats. And the remove old SW pump removes .20 liters of water from the high water level mark level no floats. All of which are controlled by the main liter miter unit. all will not gravity siphon. A battery backed up modem and apex alarm is txt to me if ph is to high or low and if the conductivity is too far off 1.025.

much of this can be done with a normal controller as well. and likely very safely. its up to you.

I would also consider the BRS one liter per minute doser heads on timers or controller. I don't have any float controled only type systems anymore i have heard to many horror stories for many different types of failures.. usually the user not the equipment, but still.
common complications most folks incur include:

if apex warning alone system fails, all keeps running as programed.
if i turn on the ATO pump manually it will NOT keep running KALK into my system, the air pressure switch driven float will stop it as it gets too high from normal running level.
if i loose power int he house, it will not run with out safety alarms
If i run a bin dry no damage is done an eventually i get air bubbles in my display form low water level. Or a incorrect salinity warning occurs.
If a pump head or line fails or breaks/ disconnects, the water is lost to the bin side or floor, not siphoned into the tank, which is twice as bad as a wet floor in my case. I have tile.

If skimmer goes fruity the system doesn't care and still sends normal amounts of water all around.

If main pump fails, the system stops sending KALK "via air pressure switch device", but keeps running Auto water changes from sump volume only at a bit more to than in ratio and only down to the high water lvl mark. ** no real value here just a fact to note. There is just enough water in my sump to run the system if, when its drained down to running water level before pump restarts, a restart happens. only after many days of no power to main pump because only a small amount each hour more than whats incoming SW goes out to drain. always take out bin more than you put in to normalize the running level and account for a wearing , or clogged pump or something.

 

[B-ridge]

Wow. Wish I could plan out a system like that

 

[James Kanouff]

Sounds complicated but its really pretty simple. the biggest pain is a place to put all the auto make up and SW make up water which the losers do the work. it has taken me to the next level of SPS with the amount of stability I have built in now. the auto water changes really normalize everything and stop any swings from water changes many folks see. Just yesterday on a different system I did a 50 % Sw change with REEf crystals. and i will never use that salt again. I was so cloundy for 8 hour that one on my fish literally had a heart attack i think. And i made it up ands stirred it for four hours before i used it. Red sea salt and small amounts every day is the only way I will ever change water from now on. i was trying to reduce a nitrate build up fast in a different system i don't usually worry about. no corals or anything and it actually killed a fish. A six yr old mystery wrasse. from the sheer invisibility of the water must have freaked him out to death. just not executable. that salt is just way to cloudy to use. and too much sediment. I'm just over it. There permanently under my standards. the water parameters tested out fine. its was over 200 gallons of mix. different bags. Very well stirred, used it lots of times on small batches in the past, knew it would be cloudy. and it was just so much worse than i expected. anyway.. rant over. YEAH for auto water changes.

 

[B-ridge]

In my case I think I would be ok. I have 2-55 gallon water drums. 1 for saltwater and 1 for rodi/top off water
Since I only plan on doing water change Monday-Friday. I have Saturday and Sunday planned for making up fresh saltwater.
I know 2 days is not necessary to make up new saltwater. I use aquaforest reef salt and this salt mixes in minutes. I read longer the mixing you lower the salinity of the salt.
So this is my plan. Almost full automation. Only thing I will need to do is put salt in drum.
Now I just need to figure out how and someone to help me program/write program. Any takers/helpers?