Back and forth on live rock or dry rock

[jt17]

Started completely with dry rock and greatly regret it. 2 years of the uglys, bryopsis hair algae and the worst....DINOS. The lack of microfauna in the system was a perfect scenario for all of these to flourish. It wasn't until I introduced microfauna that the system began to mature. I added the usual, rotifers copepods phyto etc, but what I think really helped was the activated sand and wonder mud from Indo Pacific Sea Farm. These cultures are full of live micro organisms fresh from Hawaii that can not be bottled. I also added the pink fusion purple helix coraline algae which helped boost the diversity of coraline. Its expensive because they harvest it and then ship it so your getting fresh live coraline, not something thats been sitting on a shelf.
IF I were to try again with dry rock, I would build the rock structures and then cook them in complete darkness for as long as possible (6-12 months or more). I'd start with bacteria in a bottle and gradually dose ammonia until the rocks consume 1 ppm a day. Once the rock is in the display I'd continue with ammonia until fish are added and then begin to add microfauna, mud, sand, pods, rotifers, copepods and I would use the pink and purple coraline again.

 

[EMeyer]

this is my fourth reef tank with starting the prior ones all with live rock. I seriously keep going back and forth what to start my new build with. I saw that brs video and loved it, hate that I saw it now. I have my reef tank going really well so time isn't an issue on the new build. I'm starting a bigger tank due to my vlamingi tang is getting big. I've read so much and people's opinions are so mixed. If you went dry rock, how'd it go?

Respectfully, I think asking people who went dry rock how it went is unlikely to give any useful info.

Thing is, if you start a tank with dry rock it will "work" (for certain values of the word "work"). The fish don't instantly die or anything. Its possible to keep some corals alive, some even grow. Its "working".

But anyone who has started both in a similar time frame, and compared them, will have more information for you. I doubt you'll find a single person who did so and concluded "dry rock is fine". My own conclusion, and the conclusion I've read from many other who did similar experiments, was more like "I'm never starting another tank without live rock".

 

[EMeyer]

Personally, my two cents, you will never get the biodiversity from a bottle that you can from live rock.

This is demonstrably true. Bottled products contain 1-5 types of bacteria, and most of these don't even survive in aquarium conditions.

Live rock contains *hundreds*.

 

[TriggerFinger]

Live rock for the win

 

[jeffrey750750]

I would go live if given the chance. Having the tank maturity start 6 months is awesome. Why are you considering dry rock?

I watched the video from brs making a scape out of Marco rock and was amazed

 

[jeffrey750750]

Dry start was the worst thing I ever did. the most unstable tank I’ve ever had. Also did nothing for keeping pests away,
spent over a year QT EVERYTHING and it made no difference, still ended up with vermitids and aiptasia even with going over every frag with magnifying glass and scrubbing.

Im about to tear down my 210 and start all over with live rock because it’s that crappy.

I couldn't even imagine, my new build is a 180. My current tank is a 60 and that would so much work

 

[schuby]

My first tank was in 2004. It was a 90-gallon, complete package purchased from LFS with all Live Rock, Ca RX, and MH lights. I knew nothing. The tank was wildly successful with SPS and LPS.

After being out of the hobby for three years, I started a new, 150-gallon tank from all dry rock, Dr Tim's One and Only, and LED lights at the beginning of 2019. I'm an experienced reefer, with a decent understanding of reef biology. This tank has progressed much slower and has had more issues than my first tank, even with me being very patient and not rushing things. Nothing ever went out-of-control (never over-run with algae), but I wish that I had used some live rock. I'm now trying to increase bio-diversity by feeding my fish clams, and also adding wonder mud and live-sand activator (both from ipsf.com last week).

I'm able to grow SPS (slowly) but the overall progress of the tank is much, much slower than my first tank. Things are not bad but the level of effort is much higher than I had expected.

 

[Saltyreef]

Im currently cooking a marco scape in a dark brute can with a bunch of 10 yr old LR.
Every time i do a water change on my established reef, i suck up some pods worms and brittle stars to seed the dry rock further. Also added a large bottle of fresh scraped glass coraline and i plan on doing this once tank is set up. Ill be seeding constantly from the established reef.
Been 3 months and just waiting for my new tank to arrive. Hope this solves the biodiversity issue dry rock exhibits in my new barebottom build.

Photos are of my front view glass panel
Got lots of coraline.

 

[t5Nitro]

Would the live activator sand be worthwhile for a sump or only wondermud? I wouldn't want all the critters to not have an actual sandbed to be in as my display is bare bottom and the sump im just adding multiple cups of sand to layer one chamber. Interested in adding one or both products. Let me know what you guys think for a sump.

 

[jeffrey750750]

My first tank was in 2004. It was a 90-gallon, complete package purchased from LFS with all Live Rock, Ca RX, and MH lights. I knew nothing. The tank was wildly successful with SPS and LPS.

After being out of the hobby for three years, I started a new, 150-gallon tank from all dry rock, Dr Tim's One and Only, and LED lights at the beginning of 2019. I'm an experienced reefer, with a decent understanding of reef biology. This tank has progressed much slower and has had more issues than my first tank, even with me being very patient and not rushing things. Nothing ever went out-of-control (never over-run with algae), but I wish that I had used some live rock. I'm now trying to increase bio-diversity by feeding my fish clams, and also adding wonder mud and live-sand activator (both from ipsf.com last week).

I'm able to grow SPS (slowly) but the overall progress of the tank is much, much slower than my first tank. Things are not bad but the level of effort is much higher than I had expected.

After reading what you just wrote is about the same time I started my first reef. It was with two metal halides and a trickle filter filled up with live rock. The tank was up for a few years with no issues ever

 

[GlassMunky]

Started completely with dry rock and greatly regret it. 2 years of the uglys, bryopsis hair algae and the worst....DINOS. The lack of microfauna in the system was a perfect scenario for all of these to flourish. It wasn't until I introduced microfauna that the system began to mature. I added the usual, rotifers copepods phyto etc, but what I think really helped was the activated sand and wonder mud from Indo Pacific Sea Farm. These cultures are full of live micro organisms fresh from Hawaii that can not be bottled. I also added the pink fusion purple helix coraline algae which helped boost the diversity of coraline. Its expensive because they harvest it and then ship it so your getting fresh live coraline, not something thats been sitting on a shelf.
IF I were to try again with dry rock, I would build the rock structures and then cook them in complete darkness for as long as possible (6-12 months or more). I'd start with bacteria in a bottle and gradually dose ammonia until the rocks consume 1 ppm a day. Once the rock is in the display I'd continue with ammonia until fish are added and then begin to add microfauna, mud, sand, pods, rotifers, copepods and I would use the pink and purple coraline again.

How long from when you started adding the good stuff did it take for the tank to start turning around?
I added 10 lbs of GARF GRUNGE as well as the wondermud and live sand from IPSF a couple weeks ago, and just got some more LR from my lfs to add even more, just wondering How long the turn around was for you.... I’m super close to just restarting the tank....

 

[jt17]

How long from when you started adding the good stuff did it take for the tank to start turning around?
I added 10 lbs of GARF GRUNGE as well as the wondermud and live sand from IPSF a couple weeks ago, and just got some more LR from my lfs to add even more, just wondering How long the turn around was for you.... I’m super close to just restarting the tank....

Several months. Closely monitor your stability and keep nitrate above 5 and phosphate above .03

 

[GlassMunky]

Several months. Closely monitor your stability and keep nitrate above 5 and phosphate above .03

Oh they are up there lol
Nitrates hover around 20 and phosphate at 1
I’ve got quite a few fish (14 or 15) with a couple of them on the larger size (rabbitfish and angels) and feed the tank 2-3x a day

 

[melanotaenia]

Some interesting observations for me starting with about 75% live rock from the Gulf and a few pieces of the dry rock that was used as "shelves" in order to get good pieces for placement of frags. A year later, the live rock looks great, purple continues to cover.

On the two pieces of shelf rock that was originally dry, there has been all kinds of nasty algae growth over the past year, and even now there is still some turf algae developing that will surely go with time, but is unsightly. Looking back, if I had gone with 100% live rock, I would likely have avoided these stages and the tank would likely be on autopilot by now.

On the downside, I do have vermetids that likely came in with the live rock. Not a huge deal, and completely controllable, but something that I could see reefers using as a reason to not use live rock so as to avoid any possibility of these or other pests.

 

[GlassMunky]

Several months. Closely monitor your stability and keep nitrate above 5 and phosphate above .03

I’ve been getting monthly ICP tests along with monthly AquaBiomics testing to see the trends over time.

 

[jeffrey750750]

Some interesting observations for me starting with about 75% live rock from the Gulf and a few pieces of the dry rock that was used as "shelves" in order to get good pieces for placement of frags. A year later, the live rock looks great, purple continues to cover.

On the two pieces of shelf rock that was originally dry, there has been all kinds of nasty algae growth over the past year, and even now there is still some turf algae developing that will surely go with time, but is unsightly. Looking back, if I had gone with 100% live rock, I would likely have avoided these stages and the tank would likely be on autopilot by now.

On the downside, I do have vermetids that likely came in with the live rock. Not a huge deal, and completely controllable, but something that I could see reefers using as a reason to not use live rock so as to avoid any possibility of these or other pests.

Its funny you say auto pilot, thats where my tank is right now. Its been up 1 1/2 years, just dosing and water changes. I love having auto pilot, that first year consumed so much of my time

 

[jeffrey750750]

the needles starting to point more to live rock

 

[BlennyTime]

I used 100% live rock from our LFS and never had an issue. I look through their supply every time I’m there. There are natural rocks with cool shapes if you are patient.

 

[Tired]

There's also the option of having only some of your rock be live, and getting lots of nice-shaped dry rock. All the stuff on the live rock will spread to the dry, no problem. As long as you get a decent bit of live, and not just some pebbles, you should be able to get about as much stability in just slightly more time.

 

[jeffrey750750]

Time I have, my plan is to get it going so in 6 months I can get my vlamingi tang in his new home