Back to halides?

[njreefkeeper]

No blue light orange filter magic...just a new tank coloring up sticks with 250 watt radiums on M80 ballasts with reefbrites.

 

[Syntax1235]

@njreefkeeper

What size tank is that?

 

[Yanir34]

No blue light orange filter magic...just a new tank coloring up sticks with 250 watt radiums on M80 ballasts with reefbrites.

looking good !
what is the dimensions of your tank ?
how high did you hang the halides above the tank ?

 

[Yanir34]

No blue light orange filter magic...just a new tank coloring up sticks with 250 watt radiums on M80 ballasts with reefbrites.

And what type of reflectors ?

 

[MartinM]

You can match any spectrum that MH provides with LED. You cant do the opposite. Halides have far narrower spectral lines than LED and the unique look of halides has more to do with the abrupt harsh cutoff of halides in regards to spectral bands. Want to see the spectral graphs for proof?

Halides throw a lot of energy in a very small footprint which along with the harsh spectral lines gives them a unique look. The multiple facets of halide reflectors also has unique optical characteristics. To get close with LED its pretty much Kessil, and even kessil has limits matching the energy density of a 400watt halide.

Halides also dont have software updates and carnival ride emulation modes which is a distinct advantage over LED. No ramp up or down times either so we dont need to worry about the emotional well being of corals or whatever snowflake nonsense is being peddled this month.

I ran 14k and 20k halides for years and loved them. Always wanted to build a modular halide fixture using HQI bulbs with adjustable reflectors for coverage and dimmable ballasts. The problem though is halides get more efficient with size.

As much as I prefer halides a light year over T5 or PC the flexibility of LED wins out. I'm also mature enough and smart enough to realize most faults attributed to lighting arent lighting, and the best looking SPS tanks I've seem are a100% LED.

I think you meant vice versa. MH bulbs have very wide spectrums where as LEDs are very ‘gap-y’. The ‘smoothed curve’ spectrographs you see on product boxes are actually pictographs, smoothed and colored and pretty, but misleading. True energy-weighted spectrographs of LEDs typically show large gaps between bands. This is because diodes only emit specific frequencies or narrow frequency bands, relatively speaking (hence, why you have multiple colored diodes in LED lights). MH lighting, while it can of course have more energy focused on specific wavelengths (and often does, leading to relative spikes), doesn’t (and really, can’t) have the wavelength isolation LEDs have. But it does appear that way with the ‘on the box’ graphs because MH bulbs typically show energy-weighted spectrographs which are far more accurate than simply playing ‘connect the dots’ which is what manufacturers do with the ‘on the box’ graphs they shown. MH won’t have spectral ‘gaps’ (just relative spikes based on emission energy) and LEDs almost certainly will.

This isn’t to say one is better than the other (that depends on use case, our use case being reef aquarium lighting) and not to say that both won’t grow coral (they can/do/will). Just pointing out the difference. Your post is correct if you swap the terms in it, however, which is probably what you meant to do.

I like MH for shallow water species (mainly clams), and I like LED for LPS and zoas.

 

[njreefkeeper]

@njreefkeeper

What size tank is that?

62x32x24

 

[njreefkeeper]

I think you meant vice versa. MH bulbs have very wide spectrums where as LEDs are very ‘gap-y’. The ‘smoothed curve’ spectrographs you see on product boxes are actually pictographs, smoothed and colored and pretty, but misleading. True energy-weighted spectrographs of LEDs typically show large gaps between bands. This is because diodes only emit specific frequencies or narrow frequency bands, relatively speaking (hence, why you have multiple colored diodes in LED lights). MH lighting, while it can of course have more energy focused on specific wavelengths (and often does, leading to relative spikes), doesn’t (and really, can’t) have the wavelength isolation LEDs have. But it does appear that way with the ‘on the box’ graphs because MH bulbs typically show energy-weighted spectrographs which are far more accurate than simply playing ‘connect the dots’ which is what manufacturers do with the ‘on the box’ graphs they shown. MH won’t have spectral ‘gaps’ (just relative spikes based on emission energy) and LEDs almost certainly will.

This isn’t to say one is better than the other (that depends on use case, our use case being reef aquarium lighting) and not to say that both won’t grow coral (they can/do/will). Just pointing out the difference. Your post is correct if you swap the terms in it, however, which is probably what you meant to do.

I like MH for shallow water species (mainly clams), and I like LED for LPS and zoas.

Couldn’t agree more. There is no such thing as a full spectrum diode. The light emitted from a halide is a smooth curve throughout the wavelengths of light that corals take in. Many argue that t5 is the same because fixtures are blending bulbs together but that’s not accurate. For example, a blue plus t5 IS a full spectrum bulb all on its own. A fixture can be loaded with only blue plus bulbs and create a jaw dropping SPS tank. Likewise a fixture can be filled with 100% coral plus bulbs and give a 10k appearance but it’s still a full spectrum bulb. LED’s can’t do that.

I have the Neptune Sky LED lights over another tank and, although I like them…they’re not growing sticks as fast as my radium halide tank with same feeding schedule, lighting duration and parameters.

Personally, I feel that SPS growth and color is directly related to the UV output of the lighting source. Unless you’re matching halide bulb, reflectors and ballasts correctly (showing my age here) you’re not getting the most from the halide. Halide has already been proven to put out more UV than t5, and t5 puts out more than LED. LED emits almost no measurable uv at all once you measure an inch below the surface.

Coincidentally, tanks attached to the same sump sharing the same water (halide, T5, LED) are growing and coloring up in direct correlation to the UV they’re receiving…not the par. And to be clear, I run all my sky lights with every channel at 100% for 5 hours a day before fading into the AB+ schedule. Many corals that look great under my LEDs simply don’t hold color under halide. It’s as if they’ve lost their “tan”. I have to move them to a corner of the tank down low to acclimate to equal par, but much more uv than they were receiving under LED. After 2 months they gain “true” color pigments…not just those that pop under blue light.

I just feel halide is a superior light source for growing SPS.

 

[rtparty]

I’m not convinced UV has anything to do with it when it comes to halides and T5s. Every proper halide setup filters UV quite heavily. If there was a noticeable amount of UV from halides and T5s we’d have a whole host of issues to worry about. Mainly our very own health.

I think a lot of people overlook the true full spectrum and deep red/IR of halides when talking about that “halide difference”

There are multiple LED fixtures putting out light down around 380nm. So it’s not missing from all LEDs

 

[Yanir34]

Couldn’t agree more. There is no such thing as a full spectrum diode. The light emitted from a halide is a smooth curve throughout the wavelengths of light that corals take in. Many argue that t5 is the same because fixtures are blending bulbs together but that’s not accurate. For example, a blue plus t5 IS a full spectrum bulb all on its own. A fixture can be loaded with only blue plus bulbs and create a jaw dropping SPS tank. Likewise a fixture can be filled with 100% coral plus bulbs and give a 10k appearance but it’s still a full spectrum bulb. LED’s can’t do that.

I have the Neptune Sky LED lights over another tank and, although I like them…they’re not growing sticks as fast as my radium halide tank with same feeding schedule, lighting duration and parameters.

Personally, I feel that SPS growth and color is directly related to the UV output of the lighting source. Unless you’re matching halide bulb, reflectors and ballasts correctly (showing my age here) you’re not getting the most from the halide. Halide has already been proven to put out more UV than t5, and t5 puts out more than LED. LED emits almost no measurable uv at all once you measure an inch below the surface.

Coincidentally, tanks attached to the same sump sharing the same water (halide, T5, LED) are growing and coloring up in direct correlation to the UV they’re receiving…not the par. And to be clear, I run all my sky lights with every channel at 100% for 5 hours a day before fading into the AB+ schedule. Many corals that look great under my LEDs simply don’t hold color under halide. It’s as if they’ve lost their “tan”. I have to move them to a corner of the tank down low to acclimate to equal par, but much more uv than they were receiving under LED. After 2 months they gain “true” color pigments…not just those that pop under blue light.

I just feel halide is a superior light source for growing SPS.

That is so true !
I can see this literally in my big tank that powerd by halides and led bars, and smaller tank that powerd by Radion XR30 .
Same frags , grow different.
The frags under the halides is look much more healthy , grow much faster .
Both tanks connected to same sump.

 

[Katherine Corals]

The fastest growth I ever had came for Halides. The nicest coloration I ever had came from T5/LED Hybrids.

 

[njreefkeeper]

I’m not convinced UV has anything to do with it when it comes to halides and T5s. Every proper halide setup filters UV quite heavily. If there was a noticeable amount of UV from halides and T5s we’d have a whole host of issues to worry about. Mainly our very own health.

I think a lot of people overlook the true full spectrum and deep red/IR of halides when talking about that “halide difference”

There are multiple LED fixtures putting out light down around 380nm. So it’s not missing from all LEDs

Actually, Tullio of Reefbrite did UV measurement tests under each light (halide, T5 and LED). Ofcourse there’s different UV (UVA, UVC, etc). His measurements were consistent throughout. There was VERY measurable UV coming from metal halide, almost half that output coming from T5 and the big goose egg (zero) coming from LED (unless his meter was held against the fixture itself). I’m not saying that we need UV to grow SPS. That would be ignorant since many are doing it successfully. However, the deep, rich true color pigments sps corals express seems to be directly correlated to the amount of UV light they’re receiving. I purchase sticks from many vendors. Most have understandably transitioned to LED. If I’m acclimating LED lit corals to a halide tank, they’re going to be on the bottom of the tank on eggcrate for at least a month…most times longer until they get used to it. If I’m putting it under my sky lights, I can pretty much stick it anywhere I want.

I think more needs to be investigated to see what UV’s affects on long term coral health is, and the role it plays in coloration and pigment expression.

 

[Reefahholic]

I love my setup. I have 2 250W radiums and 6 Radion XR15s over my 180g 48x36x24 tank.

Do you have any better pics of this mount. I’m trying to figure out how to mount my 3x XR15’s with two 12x12 or 20x20 reflectors. Your setup looks very clean.

 

[njreefkeeper]

Do you have any better pics of this mount. I’m trying to figure out how to mount my 3x XR15’s with two 12x12 or 20x20 reflectors. Your setup looks very clean.

dang that’s a lot of light

 

[Superlightman]

Couldn’t agree more. There is no such thing as a full spectrum diode. The light emitted from a halide is a smooth curve throughout the wavelengths of light that corals take in. Many argue that t5 is the same because fixtures are blending bulbs together but that’s not accurate. For example, a blue plus t5 IS a full spectrum bulb all on its own. A fixture can be loaded with only blue plus bulbs and create a jaw dropping SPS tank. Likewise a fixture can be filled with 100% coral plus bulbs and give a 10k appearance but it’s still a full spectrum bulb. LED’s can’t do that.

I have the Neptune Sky LED lights over another tank and, although I like them…they’re not growing sticks as fast as my radium halide tank with same feeding schedule, lighting duration and parameters.

Personally, I feel that SPS growth and color is directly related to the UV output of the lighting source. Unless you’re matching halide bulb, reflectors and ballasts correctly (showing my age here) you’re not getting the most from the halide. Halide has already been proven to put out more UV than t5, and t5 puts out more than LED. LED emits almost no measurable uv at all once you measure an inch below the surface.

Coincidentally, tanks attached to the same sump sharing the same water (halide, T5, LED) are growing and coloring up in direct correlation to the UV they’re receiving…not the par. And to be clear, I run all my sky lights with every channel at 100% for 5 hours a day before fading into the AB+ schedule. Many corals that look great under my LEDs simply don’t hold color under halide. It’s as if they’ve lost their “tan”. I have to move them to a corner of the tank down low to acclimate to equal par, but much more uv than they were receiving under LED. After 2 months they gain “true” color pigments…not just those that pop under blue light.

I just feel halide is a superior light source for growing SPS.

Do you have pictures from the sps in the different tanks?