Bare bottom tank vs sand bed

[Daniel Waters]

So on my tank is 112 gallon Red Sea 425 with a deep sand bed I have 2 damsels. The reason for very low livestock is my fish keeped dying so my lfs told me to try some filters. I have a aquamaxx fc-80 skimmer no3 brick and no3 plate in the sump and 2 maxspect gyre

Your livestock kept dying? I'm assuming you are referring to fish deaths and not corals. Fish should not be dying in a cycled tank from high nitrate levels unless they are super high. It sounds like you have bigger or multiple issues going on than just elevated nutrient levels. How many fish and what types have you lost and over what time period? What are your actual nitrate and phosphate levels? How deep is your sand bed? I'm just trying to help ascertain what is really going on in your tank. Nothing wrong with going bare bottom but you may discover it doesn't help your nutrient levels, or you may discover it does and you keep losing fish anyway.

 

[Titleist]

Any opinion on sand in triton vs bb?

 

[EmdeReef]

Agree with @DSC reef. Properly maintained sand is among the most efficient nutrient export methods. Important to keep in mind that it’s not a zero sum game, simply put 1ppm of nitrate taken up by your sandbed doesn’t equal 1ppm stored in the sand. Same with phosphates. The notion of sandbed being a dirt trap or whatever assumes the entire sandbed is anoxic (dead) - unlikely even in what we consider DSB.

While sand will leach phosphates for example provided the water concentration of phosphates is lower, the same applies to rocks and would be a much bigger issue.

I also agree that algae and bacteria growth is independent of sand and has to do with nutrients, light and other conditions.

FWIW for years I’ve never bothered siphoning or cleaning my sand and I heavily overfeed. it stays pretty clean thanks to bristleworms and nassarius snails (presumably). I usually have to dose nitrates.

 

[Nick Barbier]

Hi Guys,
I am trying to weigh the pros and conns about bare bottom vs sand botton. I have a 125g mixed reef tank that has been setup for 4 years. It has a 3" sand bottom. I have a light bioload with only three fish (yellow tang, blue tang and a damsel). The tank used to have a heaving bioload with 13 fish until about six months ago. Water changes of 36 gallons using R/O water mixed with Red Sea salt are done regularly. There is roughly 130 lbs of rock. I dose Oceans Blend 2 part and Red Sea NO3/PO4 reducer daily. No matter what I do, I can not get the nitrate level below 16ppm and the phosphate below .03ppm. My Ca is at 430 and Alk at 8.9., SG is 1.025. The tank temp is 77*F and I am running an Eshopps 30g refugium. My lighting is 4 AI Hydra 26.
I've read post saying that changing to a BB will reduce the nitrate and phosphate levels, and in other post I've read that it will have little or no affect. The findings seem to be inconclusive. At this point, I don't care about aesthetics, only functionality and stability. The bottom line is that I want the nitrate and phosphate as low as possible.
So what is the best way to go about accomplishing this, bare bottom or sand bottom? Is changing to a BB worth it?

 

[wattson]

Get rid of the sand and you can thank yourself for doing it.
I'm on the side of no sand...
Actually when my No3 get below 20 I start doing it higher ..lol
My canary in the tank let's le know when it gets low

 

[Nick Barbier]

I've been told by LFS that NO3 above 5ppm is too high. And yet I've heard that some SPS like high NO3. Any opinions on this?

 

[davocean]

Having a sand bed, or not having a sand bed should neither cause nor resolve your issues.

Shallow, DSB, or BB all can work just fine if maintained properly.

You should build your tank to accommodate the needs of the animals you keep.

 

[wattson]

I've been told by LFS that NO3 above 5ppm is too high. And yet I've heard that some SPS like high NO3. Any opinions on this?

All my tank corals are all zoas/palys,,no other type of corals,,softies like higer No3 compared to SPS,,Ive never owned any SPS so I cant elaborate on thier ideal needs.
I dose No3 to around mid 20's to 30 for my canary palys to open back up..Ive tried all kind of testing to see why they close up and this is the only thing that works for them I guess.

 

[Daniel Waters]

I've been told by LFS that NO3 above 5ppm is too high. And yet I've heard that some SPS like high NO3. Any opinions on this?

I've had my nitrates at 10 ppm for probably 6+ months. No issues with my SPS

 

[shred5]

Bare bottom does nothing for nitrates..
It does however allow for easier removal of waste which can cut back on nutrients entering your water in the first place if you are actually doing something with the detritus..
Bare bottom does nothing if you are doing nothing about removing the extra detritus. To many think i will just go bare bottom and it helps no it does not.
You will have to catch it in something and actually empty the socks or what ever and more often.

A shallow sandbed will not do anything for nitrates but a deep sandbed will because it has a area for Anaerobic bacteria.

Honestly I would look somewhere else because I have kept reefs both ways and never had a issue with nitrates.


More live rock or other media for Anaerobic bacteria to grow can help.
You may be over feeding.
A better skimmer can help or added if you do not have one.
A nutrient exporting method using algae in either a scrubber or fuge.

 

[dwest]

hey guys wanted to get everyone’s opinion on bare bottom tank vs sand bed. The reason I’m asking is because I’m dealing with high nitrate levels and I’ve tried the microbactor 7 and Red Sea nopox and still can’t seem to get it down even with water changes. I’m just wondering if I get rid of my sand bed it would help.

Do you have measurable phosphates?

 

[basement reefer]

I am a recent convert to a bare-bottom tank. I've used sand in the past because I was in the camp of "it's natural" however there were a couple of interesting points I came across in a Reef Builders interview of Jason Fox and a reef currents 2017 video.

-Firstly, you can't have sand in a aquarium with the right amount of flow. Water quality, Flow then light are prioritized in that order.
-Second, there is no sand on coral reefs. He said if they see sand when looking for coral, they keep on swimming until they find some rock.

Case closed for me, I started removing the sand within minutes of that video. lol He is an experienced collector, diver and retailer of some of the nicest coral out there, I figure the advice is sound.
He points a good size pump across the back of the tank that makes the detritus settle in the front where it can be siphoned out.

 

[Nick Barbier]

Jason Fox does make some good points and has some really awesome tanks. He seems to very knowledgable about the reefing hobby.

 

[Sean Fitz]

Just weighing in, I am a sand bed person, I run a 4 inch sand bed and siphon the top 1/2 to 1 inch with regular biweekly 20% water changes. Its a mixed 90g reef tank I have had for about a decade, although I moved it 5 years ago and replaced the sand at that point. Softies, LPS, and SPS, 7 fish (fox face, 2 clowns, lmb, coral beauty, cleaner wrasse, dragonet) and I feed heavy.

I built my rock work specifically to eliminate dead spots, which can become "nitrate factories" when stuff piles up. I run a gyre pump which is well worth the $ and the sand stays put with relatively high flow. I run a biopellet reactor, a skimmer, and occasionaly carbon, and dose 2 part. I run T5s supplemented with some Kessil a80s for shimmer.

Occasionally I run into issues with my nutrients being too low and delay water changes.

Ive been in the general aquarium hobby for 18 years and have had a ton of tanks, fresh, salt, fowlr, reef - with all you just have to fine tune not just your setup but your maintenance regimen, and then stick to it and avoid new gimmicky products, esp additives. So many additives are just worthless snake oil, or hurt more the help.

I find problems usually occur when I drop out of routine or make too many changes at once - long vacations with bad pet sitters, new relationships, other hobbies popping up, extended power failures, adding too much new livestock at once, changing too many methods of export at once, or when something big like a clam dies and goes unnoticed for a day.

 

[Sean Fitz]

That all said - whatever look you prefer can work when you tune it in.

 

[Nokiaec11]

It will also depend on the type of sand..all sand does not contain benificial bacteria, so when waste or food gets in the sand it will not break down over time, and will cause a spike that will not go away until you sift the sand and clean it at the same time...with that being said unless you add bacteria to the sand it will best to remove it; you can add some live sand using wide PVC and a large funnel and mix in with your current sand, but that is if you wish to keep the sand bed...Sand is not benicial unless it is live sand, meaning containing live bacteria...also, with all that said, everything said also goes for rock...if your rock was not cured properly they will leak phospates, pukani being the top culprit.

 

[Ryan420r6]

Melevsreef just posted a YouTube vid on sand maintenance a few days ago and made several good points. Sand or BB both have their pros and cons so you have to figure out what works for you. I like watching my cuc clean my sand for me (My nitrates run 1-2ppm with 0 siphoning). Implementing an appropriate cuc for your tank comes with its own learning curve also. If you dont want to worry about a cuc then you will need to siphon the sand regularly which would probably push a lot of folks to go BB. Also keep in mind that cuc or not new tanks have ugly phases where your sand will most likely look terrible from time to time until your tank matures and you get everything dialed in (lighting/stocking /feeding/flow/nutrient export). The info you gave is inconclusive to point a finger at the sand and say that your problems will be fixed. Good luck!

 

[ScottR]

I like sand because it houses a good pod community. The pods come and go as the CUC and fish eat them. Then new ones hatch and start the cycle all over. I never have issues with nitrates, phosphates, etc. I couldn’t live without sand.

 

[saltyhog]

Presence or absence of sand has nothing to do with having nitrate problems. I have a sand bed and struggle to keep my nutrients up to detectable levels.

I have lots of sand dwelling critters (wrasses, gobies, snails) and won't part with my sand. If you have no desire to keep critters that have to have sand, by all means go bare bottom. Do it because you like the look or don't want any additional maintenance but not to aid in nutrient control.

To the OP, if you have a deep sand bed, don't remove it suddenly. Slowly and one area at a time.

 

[ScottR]

Presence or absence of sand has nothing to do with having nitrate problems. I have a sand bed and struggle to keep my nutrients up to detectable levels.

I have lots of sand dwelling critters (wrasses, gobies, snails) and won't part with my sand. If you have no desire to keep critters that have to have sand, by all means go bare bottom. Do it because you like the look or don't want any additional maintenance but not to aid in nutrient control.

To the OP, if you have a deep sand bed, don't remove it suddenly. Slowly and one area at a time.

+1
Taking out sand would be taking out lots of life that made sand it’s home. I find it to be part of a healthy cycle.