Benefit to skimming besides increased PH and avoiding Nitrate?

[Tuffloud1]

Something I have always had a hard time grasping -

If you have undetectable NO3 and your PH is ideal without a skimmer, what benefit is there to running a skimmer?

I see reefers running skimmers but then dosing NO3, help me understand this.

Is there a measurable benefit to running a skimmer BESIDES trying to avoid breakdown of organics and the eventual NO3 increase as well as the benefit of PH boost?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Something I have always had a hard time grasping -

If you have undetectable NO3 and your PH is ideal without a skimmer, what benefit is there to running a skimmer?

I see reefers running skimmers but then dosing NO3, help me understand this.

Is there a measurable benefit to running a skimmer BESIDES trying to avoid breakdown of organics and the eventual NO3 increase as well as the benefit of PH boost?

pH may rise or fall, depending on the situation, but the aeration can also be important for oxygenation, especially at night.

in my case, I found inadequate aeration when I turned off my skimmer and would use one for that effect alone. In my situation, I used limewater/kalkwasser, and the pH rise too much without the skimmer running.

 

[Tuffloud1]

pH may rise or fall, depending on the situation, but the aeration can also be important for oxygenation, especially at night.

in my case, I found inadequate aeration when I turned off my skimmer and would use one for that effect alone. In my situation, I used limewater/kalkwasser, and the pH rise too much without the skimmer running.

Would you recommend skimming if my NO3 is consistently undetectable and my PH is consistently 8.3 day and 8.2 at night?

Currently dosing 2 part, using IO salt.

Currently not running skimmer.

 

[blstravler]

Would you recommend skimming if my NO3 is consistently undetectable and my PH is consistently 8.3 day and 8.2 at night?

Currently not running skimmer.

Have you tried feeding more to raise NO3?

 

[Tuffloud1]

Have you tried feeding more to raise NO3?

Absolutely, feeding 6 times a day, 0 effect on NO3.

PO4 currently .02

 

[Tuffloud1]

in my case, I found inadequate aeration when I turned off my skimmer and would use one for that effect alone. In my situation, I used limewater/kalkwasser, and the pH rise too much without the skimmer running.

How can I tell if I have inadequate oxygenation even though my PH is 8.2 - 8.3?

Thanks Randy

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Good discussion topic. Following

 

[Tuffloud1]

So fish waste breaks down and eventually becomes nitrate. The corals and organisms use some of the nitrate.

I’ve always wondered if there is “something else” in the fish waste that dissolves into the water column and doesn’t get converted to nitrate and used by organisms.

In other words: Does skimming remove something detrimental to our tanks that the natural nitrogen cycle and organisms cannot?

^ This question assumes that the biological filtration is sufficient and capable of not allowing excessive nitrate build up.

 

[Dan_P]

How can I tell if I have inadequate oxygenation even though my PH is 8.2 - 8.3?

Thanks Randy

Measure the oxygen level, especially after the lights are off.

 

[Dan_P]

Something I have always had a hard time grasping -

If you have undetectable NO3 and your PH is ideal without a skimmer, what benefit is there to running a skimmer?

I see reefers running skimmers but then dosing NO3, help me understand this.

Is there a measurable benefit to running a skimmer BESIDES trying to avoid breakdown of organics and the eventual NO3 increase as well as the benefit of PH boost?

Removing dissolved organic carbon from the water is the purpose of the skimmer. It also removes particulate organic mater, including small organisms. As far as I know, no one has actually proven that a skimmer does these things to a degree that lowers the nitrate level in an aquarium. The amount of material removed might be too small to make a difference. As far as our hobby knowledge goes, we can only be sure that we purchased very expensive aerators.

The pH is only connected with skimming as far as skimming promotes gas exchange. If the skimmer as aerator helps CO2 leave the system, pH could increase a bit using a skimmer.

So, there may be no connection between skimming and nitrate management.

 

[Montiman]

For me the biggest advantage of a skimmer vs other export technology is how quickly a skimmer reacts and how flexible the skimmer is with the system BioLoad.

For example, Im out of town and my anemone decides to jump in a power head. It will take days for a chaeto fuge to process all of the excess nutrients. Same can be said about bacterial filters. The skimmer will start skimming immediately and won't stop until the nutrients are low enough that the skimmer can't form a foam head.

The speed of a protein skimmer and the fact that a properly sized skimmer will have extra filtration capacity in case of emergencies makes it a valuable addition IMO.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

If you have undetectable nitrates I would definitely be dosing stump killer.

 

[rmurken]

If you have undetectable nitrates I would definitely be dosing stump killer.

I think our test kits don’t tell the whole story. My nitrates are generally undetectable, but I really only break out the stump killer for phosphate spikes, on the theory that a phosphate spike is a sign of inadequate nitrate. And the few times I’ve had to do this, PO4 seemed to drop in response to modest additions of NO3. Working theory is that the chaeto needs the NO3 to get back to sucking up PO4.

But who knows. Reality is always weird. For all I know it’s just a coincidence, and in reality a UFO is beaming individual PO4 ions out of my tank late at night.

 

[Tuffloud1]

Measure the oxygen level, especially after the lights are off.

How do you measure O2 levels? Is it by using the ORP probe?

 

[Tuffloud1]

If you have undetectable nitrates I would definitely be dosing stump killer.

Yes, I’m dosing KNO3.

 

[Tuffloud1]

I’m not concerned about the zero nitrate topic, I’m more so looking for an answer to this question.

There are probably few people that could really answer this question because you need to be a chemist to do so!

Does skimming remove something detrimental to our tanks that the natural nitrogen cycle and organisms cannot?

 

[rmurken]

Does skimming remove something detrimental to our tanks that the natural nitrogen cycle and organisms cannot?

There are probably few people that could really answer this question because you need to be a chemist to do so!

Does skimming remove something detrimental to our tanks that the natural nitrogen cycle and organisms cannot?

If you’re a reefer, you’re a chemist. Maybe you actually know chemistry and get paid to do chemistry. Or you’re like me: an armchair chemist who is not afraid to try his hand at answering questions that are clearly out of my depth.

I think you answered your own question in your OP, which is that as far as export goes, skimming primarily removes organics before they mineralize. It also removes organics in the form of microbial or planktonic biomass.

The most tantalizing aspect of your question to me is just how important is a skimmer? In my case, I have a pretty light bioload, and tbh, not sure mine does much.

 

[Tuffloud1]

If you’re a reefer, you’re a chemist. Maybe you actually know chemistry and get paid to do chemistry. Or you’re like me: an armchair chemist who is not afraid to try his hand at answering questions that are clearly out of my depth.

I think you answered your own question in your OP, which is that as far as export goes, skimming primarily removes organics before they mineralize. It also removes organics in the form of microbial or planktonic biomass.

The most tantalizing aspect of your question to me is just how important is a skimmer? In my case, I have a pretty light bioload, and tbh, not sure mine does much.

So another way of wording my question - Does 100 percent of fish waste toxicity get converted and removed from an aquarium through natural processes? Do we need to intervene with a skimmer if natural processes are producing a 0 nitrate environment? This would be excluding water changes, skimming or any form of mechanical filtration. In essence, you have a box of water with a bunch of live rock, fish and filter feeders with water moving around but nothing physically REMOVING anything.

It seems that reefers tend to over complicate their systems with tons of equipment in their sumps, skimmers being one of those things, but do we ever really stop and ask ourselves if we “need” it? Don’t get me wrong, I love equipment, it’s “fun”, but is it doing any good? I like functionality over “cool factor”.

 

[Dan_P]

How do you measure O2 levels? Is it by using the ORP probe?

You can buy an oxygen meter (it needs calibration) or a titration kit from Hanna. The Salifert kit uses a a color chart, so, I avoided it. I am using the Hanna titration kit.

 

[Sweetaz]

I think the answer is going to be different for every tank. But in general, it depends on your fish load. I only have three fish, but a ton of corals in a 100 gallon, and I stopped using my skimmer 5 months ago.