Best salt mixes

[jason2459]

You are not a very good person to have a discussion with. Pretty condensending there. Why not just say the person you want to rely on. Why not link to the articles that show's Li harmful to urchin embryos.

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

You are not a very good person to have a discussion with. Pretty condensending there. Why not just say the person you want to rely on. Why not link to the articles that show's Li harmful to urchin embryos.

Not trying to be, just sharing what I have found. But no personal attacks please, it's not necessary. :p (though I respect your opinion)
Also the purpose in saying 'check google' is to get more people to initiate searching for answers. The more people who search for answers, the more unique data you can collect, thus increasing the collective wisdom. True story.

 

[jason2459]

FWIW, I have used IO for many years and over 7 Triton samples sent in from my tank over the past year my Li levels have averaged around 397 as detected by Triton.

Under the microscope I see plenty of life at all levels from every sample I take from any area of the tank I look there's various types of eukaryotes and prokaryotes, like bacteria of all different sizes and types like single tiny 1um cocci bacteria, larva of many types, many various pods, diatoms, sponges, phototrophs and heterotrophs of many varieties, etc.

 

[jason2459]

Not trying to be, just sharing what I have found. But no personal attacks please, it's not necessary. :p (though I respect your opinion)
Also the purpose in saying 'check google' is to get more people to initiate searching for answers. The more people who search for answers, the more unique data you can collect, thus increasing the collective wisdom. True story.

They just tend to get heated quickly for some reason. I agree knowledge is great but when backing up your opinions it would be nice to get the literature that you are referring to directly then having to search with ambiguous terms which may bring up the wrong results.

Then when the literature is questioned please don't take it personally. That's what getting peer reviewed is all about. And when something does get peer reviewed and eventually published doesn't mean it's 100% accepted by everyone or near it or that it's correct. Published papers get debunked all the time over long periods of time sometimes. And sometimes they get justified again after being thought wrong...

Science...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

That's what I was doing at first but say I let my alkalinity drop through the week and then do my weekly water change it goes back up. I was seeing a swing in my parameters between water changes so I just perform my water change take my readings and then keep them there with slight dosing through the week till my next water change to get less fluctuations.

I guess my question is should I choose a salt mix that will keep my parameters more closer to say alk around 8 instead of 10dkh

You must be doing fairly large changes if you see a big swing.

If the tank is at 8 dKH ands the new water is at 11 dKH, and you do a 10% change, the 8 dKH moves to only 8.3 dKH.

So maybe smaller changes that you are doing would solve your concern. :)

 

[Acameron2]

You must be doing fairly large changes if you see a big swing.

If the tank is at 8 dKH ands the new water is at 11 dKH, and you do a 10% change, the 8 dKH moves to only 8.3 dKH.

So maybe smaller changes that you are doing would solve your concern. :)

I will try the less water change. Thank you Randy.

 

[jason2459]

I will try the less water change. Thank you Randy.

How much are you changing out at one time?

 

[Acameron2]

How much are you changing out at one time?

5 gallons out of 20 gallon tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Here's a tidbit from a comparison on RC and ESV I just stumbled across.
Though the person now says they've not seen any evidence to suggest~ (why is that Mr.! :p)
I think anecdotal counts to a fair amount, though not proof imo, I know many on this site consider it to be. What I was referring to you can find more info on, I believe there's research concerning urchins, zebrafish, another fish I can't recall atm, and then frogs as well. Though as you'll discover (if you care to look) the other fish did not exhibit the same effects as the zebrafish with problems developing.

Though I agree as an average you'll not find lithium levels high enough to cause a lot of the issues, it's still a valid point when comparing salts. (I believe the topic is Best salt mixes?)
Please don't QQ me, I'm only trying to add to our repository of knowledge, and though I am familiar with the AA verdict, there's been much more research into the effects, so no matter what, at the very least, you cannot say it doesn't affect organisms, period. (that's definitely cheapening the wisdom of the hobby and the human race) As to what extent, that's debatable, but don't let others fool you into thinking it's established that it's known. Even 'not seeing data' only proves one thing, there's been no conclusive facts. So it could still be a true or false.

I do not know what effects lithium has in a reef, but it is biologically active. Craig Bingman tested mixes years ago and found most were elevated (like Reef Crystals is in your test), and Coralife was very high (and IIRC, a few people associated that very level with problems)

Aquarium Frontiers Feature

Picking between these two only, and assuming the data is accurate, I'd elect the Reef Crystals because of the elevated lithium and lead in the ESV.

I've yet to see ANY evidence that lithium at the levels in IO is a concern, and Craig's article showing issues with C0ralife salt is certainly no justification to be concerned.

I agree that the high lithium in Coralife was a possible concern that some had. It may not have been the actual problem with that mix, but it was very much higher than IO and every other mix he tested by a factor of more than 30.

So by your reasoning, one might want to avoid salt mixes with an alk higher than NSW at 8 dKH because a different salt mix caused problems when the alk was 250 dKH higher than NSW.

One needs to pay attention to the levels involved when drawing conclusions, even if the conclusion is only that there is some evidence of a proble at much higher levels. That is likely true of many of the components of a salt mix.

 

[jason2459]

5 gallons out of 20 gallon tank.

That is a good amount. I do the same though actually on my 20g mantis tank with no other maintenance. It's only softies in there no stony corals so not as big of an impact or at least it hasn't' hurt them any. I don't remember the last time I checked alk in that tank or any other parameter so I don't know how much it fluctuates.

 

[Acameron2]

That is a good amount. I do the same though actually on my 20g mantis tank with no other maintenance. It's only softies in there no stony corals so not as big of an impact or at least it hasn't' hurt them any. I don't remember the last time I checked alk in that tank or any other parameter so I don't know how much it fluctuates.

I'm going to try Randy's tip on smaller water change.

 

[that Reef Guy]

I usually get around 12dkh with IO. I wouldn't call that insanely high. IORC does have higher Alk and Mg then I like.

How much of a water change do you do at one time? Do you have a lot of stony corals? How much alk do you have to supplement? Where do you maintain your alk in the tank?

If doing small regular water changes I don't see a 12dkh impacting a tank running around 8dkh at least not more then dosing to increase alkalinity would and could help reduce the amount dosed.

But Tropic Marine Pro is a good salt and if it wasn't for price probably one I would use.

When Most people keep their Alkalinity between 8 and 9 I consider 12 Insanely High.

My Alkalinity is 8.5 and Tropic Marin Pro is around 8.5

Why would I want a Salt that Mixes up at 12?

Tropic Marin Pro keeps their Salt Closer to the Oceans Parameters where Coral Come from better than any other Brand.

 

[Acameron2]

When Most people keep their Alkalinity between 8 and 9 I consider 12 Insanely High.

My Alkalinity is 8.5 and Tropic Marin Pro is around 8.5

Why would I want a Salt that Mixes up at 12?

Tropic Marin Pro keeps their Salt Closer to the Oceans Parameters where Coral Come from better than any other Brand.

You may have just persuaded me to try their salt.

 

[jason2459]

When Most people keep their Alkalinity between 8 and 9 I consider 12 Insanely High.

My Alkalinity is 8.5 and Tropic Marin Pro is around 8.5

Why would I want a Salt that Mixes up at 12?

Tropic Marin Pro keeps their Salt Closer to the Oceans Parameters where Coral Come from better than any other Brand.

Well, why do you think 12dkh salt would cause your tank to be 12dkh?

What do you think happens when dosing an alk supplement?

My alk is normally pretty steady at 9-10dkh using IO. It has been elevated in the past due to my own mishaps but I've easily lowered them back down.

If I did want my alk to be lower then that I would just reduce the amount of limewater I dose.

If a particular salt has lower dkh you may need to supplement more. If it has higher you may supplement less.

The saltmix has little impact.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Well, why do you think 12dkh salt would cause your tank to be 12dkh?

What do you think happens when dosing an alk supplement?

My alk is normally pretty steady at 9-10dkh using IO. It has been elevated in the past due to my own mishaps but I've easily lowered them back down.

If I did want my alk to be lower then that I would just reduce the amount of limewater I dose.

If a particular salt has lower dkh you may need to supplement more. If it has higher you may supplement less.

The saltmix has little impact.

Why would anyone want 12dkh with a new ULN system? That would be typical with a new setup.

 

[jason2459]

Why would anyone want 12dkh with a new ULN system? That would be typical with a new setup.

That doesn't really answer the questions.

I still propose the salt would have minimal impact.

Most new setups are not low in nutrients IME. Usually they are seeding nutrients in some fashion to cause a cycle watching the nutrients bloom and then curse the algae, diatoms, and/or cyano that typically follow.

If one wants a ULN system they are typically looking to house a lot of stony corals which take up a lot of alk. The alkalinity supplemented by the salt is then adjusted in the alkalinity supplemented by other means.

And by all means if someone wants a salt with lower alkalinity values thats perfectly good reason to choose one over another.

But a salt with a higher alkalinity value can and has worked just fine in a very wide range of systems including those that push for ULNS and drive alk to 7dkh.

 

[reeferfoxx]

If one want a ULN system they are typically looking to house a lot of stony corals which take up a lot of alk. The alkalinity supplemented by the salt is then adjusted in the alkalinity supplemented by other means.

But a salt with a higher alkalinity value can and has worked just fine in a very wide range of systems including those that push for ULNS and drive alk to 7dkh.

:confused:
So your saying someone with ULNS using RC that has a dkh of 12 will eventually drive there system to 7dkh? I mean justifiably, yes but thats not making it a good thing. ULNS with high dkh equals out to fast bleached growth. Most people have a hard time raising nitrates than not. As you said during that cycle, things are being absorbed but without stony coral.

 

[jason2459]

:confused:
So your saying someone with ULNS using RC that has a dkh of 12 will eventually drive there system to 7dkh? I mean justifiably, yes but thats not making it a good thing. ULNS with high dkh equals out to fast bleached growth. Most people have a hard time raising nitrates than not. As you said during that cycle, thing are being absorbed but without stony coral.

RC usually has higher then 12dkh. Doing small regular water changes will not cause the aquarium water to be at that same level and would only provide a small increase just as if dosing a supplement to boost alkalinity.

I've driven my alkalinity down in my tank to 8 easily using regular IO which has a typical alkalinity value of around 11-12dkh. If I wanted to go lower I could. Also, not everyone wants a ULN system depending on how that's defined.

 

[reeferfoxx]

RC usually has higher then 12dkh. Doing small regular water changes will not cause the aquarium water to be at that same level and would only provide a small increase just as if dosing a supplement to boost alkalinity.

I've driven my alkalinity down in my tank to 8 easily using regular IO which has a typical alkalinity value of around 11-12dkh. If I wanted to go lower I could. Also, not everyone wants a ULN system depending on how that's defined.

Ok, I see what you're saying. I don't see anything wrong with that method either.

 

[jason2459]

Sorry, I'm wrong on the alk values. I had to check my saltmix parameters thread to check my memory. IO is typically 10-11 dkh and RC is typically ~12-15dkh.