Big markup on Red Sea Pro test kit from LFS

[mdpitts]

What would you do - my LFS suggested that with my new corals I need to be testing for calcium, magnesium and alkalinity so I asked her to suggest a kit. She recommended the Red Sea Foundation kit and I bought it for $89. when I got home I searched for info/reviews on it (I‘m a nut for reading reviews) and saw that Amazon sells it for $59 as well as other retailers online. To me, $30 is a bit of a markup. Heres the issue, I feel like it’s overpriced and that makes me feel like I was taken advantage of but I like to shop local when possible. I’ve also read the Salifert tests are good and maybe easier to use. I’m a bona fide moron when it comes to math/science. Seriousl. I’m worried Red Sea might flummox me and I won’t want to use it. I do a 15% water change every Saturday and test salinity with a pen type gadget or my refractor. last test at that same store they said my tank looked great. I buy saltwater and RODI from them each week and use Seachem Reef Plus a couple times a week. I hope y’all aren’t cringing too much. Everyone in my tank looks good. Should I return the test and go for cheaper Salifert or keep it, learn to use it and chalk it up to lesson learned.

 

[GlassMunky]

What would you do - my LFS suggested that with my new corals I need to be testing for calcium, magnesium and alkalinity so I asked her to suggest a kit. She recommended the Red Sea Foundation kit and I bought it for $89. when I got home I searched for info/reviews on it (I‘m a nut for reading reviews) and saw that Amazon sells it for $59 as well as other retailers online. To me, $30 is a bit of a markup. Heres the issue, I feel like it’s overpriced and that makes me feel like I was taken advantage of but I like to shop local when possible. I’ve also read the Salifert tests are good and maybe easier to use. I’m a bona fide moron when it comes to math/science. Seriousl. I’m worried Red Sea might flummox me and I won’t want to use it. I do a 15% water change every Saturday and test salinity with a pen type gadget or my refractor. last test at that same store they said my tank looked great. I buy saltwater and RODI from them each week and use Seachem Reef Plus a couple times a week. I hope y’all aren’t cringing too much. Everyone in my tank looks good. Should I return the test and go for cheaper Salifert or keep it, learn to use it and chalk it up to lesson learned.

if you havn't used it yet, return it and get a refund. 30% markup is alot over others, and money saved is money saved.
Salifert is just as good quality if not better than red sea.

 

[piranhaman00]

Salifert is way better than Red Sea

 

[Miami Reef]

You don’t need a magnesium test kit EVER. Get the salifert calcium and alk if you like it the price better. I use salifert for calcium and alk, and I have a backup Red Sea for alk.

Both are excellent test kits.

 

[mdpitts]

Thank you. I was feeling guilty for thinking that. If it was 10 bucks I could live with that no problem. Searching the threads here on test kits someone wisely said - if you can’t use the test correctly you might be inclined to not use it - that got me thinking…

 

[mdpitts]

You don’t need a magnesium test kit EVER. Get the salifert calcium and alk if you like it the price better. I use salifert for calcium and alk, and I have a backup Red Sea for alk.

Both are excellent test kits.

Cool! I’m so relieved to hear this. I’m gonna do it.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Salifert kits are decent but like RedSea have their pros and cons. Either will likely work for you.

While you really don't need to test for magnesium (See Randy's post in this forum for an explanation as to why it will almost always be balanced if you keep Calciium and Alkalinity balanced) it may be useful as you learn.

Lets talk about the LFS markup though...

It costs a lot of money to run a brick and mortar store, especially an LFS. Rent, Insurance, Labor, Utilities, Advertising, Shrink (theft), Returns, Livestock loss, Stock Expiration, Taxes, Permits, etc.

30% retail markup is about the bare minimum for a brick and mortar retail store to survive, and often that is not enough. What you get for the "premium" price is a relationship with a local business and the ability to get something when you need it, especially if you patronize the business and become a known customer that they will cater to. Is this worth the premium? That is up to the individual.

In the same fashion, politely asking them if they can work with you on price based on what you see online is not disrecptpful as long as you present your question respectfully and abide their answer respectfully. That is, don't expect them to meet the online price, as they likely can't without taking a loss, but be happy if they offer you a discount and don't MF them if they can't.

 

[Miami Reef]

it may be useful as you learn.

Learn what? Magnesium tests are awfully inaccurate and tedious to test. It’s not even accurate for ICP which is something we recently learned in this study thread:

Thread 'HOBBY GRADE TEST KITS CAN OUTPERFORM ICP MEASUREMENTS…REALLY??'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/h...n-outperform-icp-measurements…really.1007101/

Use a balanced alkalinity additive, which should have magnesium incorporated. Make occasional water changes (around 15-20% a month), and you likely won’t ever have magnesium fall out of range.

 

[DanyL]

Salifert kits are decent but like RedSea have their pros and cons. Either will likely work for you.

While you really don't need to test for magnesium (See Randy's post in this forum for an explanation as to why it will almost always be balanced if you keep Calciium and Alkalinity balanced) it may be useful as you learn.

Lets talk about the LFS markup though...

It costs a lot of money to run a brick and mortar store, especially an LFS. Rent, Insurance, Labor, Utilities, Advertising, Shrink (theft), Returns, Livestock loss, Stock Expiration, Taxes, Permits, etc.

30% retail markup is about the bare minimum for a brick and mortar retail store to survive, and often that is not enough. What you get for the "premium" price is a relationship with a local business and the ability to get something when you need it, especially if you patronize the business and become a known customer that they will cater to. Is this worth the premium? That is up to the individual.

In the same fashion, politely asking them if they can work with you on price based on what you see online is not disrecptpful as long as you present your question respectfully and abide their answer respectfully. That is, don't expect them to meet the online price, as they likely can't without taking a loss, but be happy if they offer you a discount and don't MF them if they can't.

Well said.

 

[ingchr1]

My guess is that MSRP on that kit is $75.

RedSea Reef Foundation Pro Multi Test Kit (Ca, Alk, Mg)

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[Uncle99]

All the Red Sea didn’t work for me….some over complicated IMM.

Hanna for Alk, Phosphate.
Salifert rest.

 

[CMMorgan]

@ingchr1 beat me to it. We have a LFS that buys off of BRS and sells it retail with a markup. If you are buying a test kit off of Amazon, it could be expired or near expired... or stolen and resold.
In short, sounds like they got you fir ten bucks. That said... Many of us got suckered by a LFS to buying the Red Sea kit and we've since regretted it. Personally, I like the NYOS kits for calcium and Alk. I like Hannah for nitrates and Ammonia. I'll probably get a Hannah for phosphate also. I stopped testing Mag ages ago.
Good luck in your journey.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Learn what? Magnesium tests are awfully inaccurate and tedious to test. It’s not even accurate for ICP which is something we recently learned in this study thread:

Thread 'HOBBY GRADE TEST KITS CAN OUTPERFORM ICP MEASUREMENTS…REALLY??'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hobby-grade-test-kits-can-outperform-icp-measurements…really.1007101/

Use a balanced alkalinity additive, which should have magnesium incorporated. Make occasional water changes (around 15-20% a month), and you likely won’t ever have magnesium fall out of range.

I am very well aware of the accuracy (or lack of) with ICP and other testing methods and was an active participant in that thread with my money on that horse. I am also well aware (and stated as much, pointing the OP there) of Randy's recent thread regarding Mag testing. I am not sure if you looking for an argument or think I am new to this, but I am not new and there is no argument and I am not disagreeing with you or Randy's conclusion - I am simply saying that learning to use test kits and watch parameters is not a bad thing, even if it is Magnesium. Learning the process is often very helpful for people when it comes to understanding why/how, not just telling them "Do this and don't ask questions".

 

[Miami Reef]

Many people, beginners especially, make threads wondering why their magnesium is over 1500ppm or under 1000ppm. Almost all those times, it is a faulty magnesium kit.

I’m just saying there is nothing to learn with using these kits. I wasn’t arguing at all.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

30% retail markup is about the bare minimum for a brick and mortar retail store

Yes, 30% markup from wholesale, not 30% over other retailer prices.

 

[mdpitts]

Salifert kits are decent but like RedSea have their pros and cons. Either will likely work for you.

While you really don't need to test for magnesium (See Randy's post in this forum for an explanation as to why it will almost always be balanced if you keep Calciium and Alkalinity balanced) it may be useful as you learn.

Lets talk about the LFS markup though...

It costs a lot of money to run a brick and mortar store, especially an LFS. Rent, Insurance, Labor, Utilities, Advertising, Shrink (theft), Returns, Livestock loss, Stock Expiration, Taxes, Permits, etc.

30% retail markup is about the bare minimum for a brick and mortar retail store to survive, and often that is not enough. What you get for the "premium" price is a relationship with a local business and the ability to get something when you need it, especially if you patronize the business and become a known customer that they will cater to. Is this worth the premium? That is up to the individual.

In the same fashion, politely asking them if they can work with you on price based on what you see online is not disrecptpful as long as you present your question respectfully and abide their answer respectfully. That is, don't expect them to meet the online price, as they likely can't without taking a loss, but be happy if they offer you a discount and don't MF them if they can't.

Good point and the main reason I was conflicted and sought advice. They are good folks and put up with a lot of questions from me . Someone else mentioned that the kit sells elsewhere for about $75 and on Amazon could be nearing its expiration date and that sounds plausible.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yes, 30% markup from wholesale, not 30% over other retailer prices.

When you see the LFSs wholesale price list, then we can have that conversation but even then, there is no "margin" that is right or wrong. Some items may have a 2000% margin from wholesale and some a -50% margin from wholesale (a loss leader for example).

The problem with trying to compare to other retailers prices is that other retailers may be selling at small or even negative margin for a myriad of reasons.

Ignoring MAP pricing:

1 - Online vendors, especially those who drop ship have far more pricing leeway and can survive on much smaller margins, especially large volume operations.

2 - Other "retailers" may be able to obtain old (near expiration), seconds, returned or otherwise discounted stock (closeouts, fiscal bundles, etc. and therefore sell at significant discounts, often without disclosing. Combine that with the point above and the pricing can be insanely low.

3 - The LFS may not be in the same volume pricing agreement as the "other retailers" who are selling at a lower price.

4 - Some "retailers" may sell at a tiny or negative margin as a loss leader for popular items. Other competing retailers often follow suit, so as not to lose customers to competitors. This downward margin erosion is part of the reason that many manufacturers force MAP pricing on their authorized retailers in an attempt to not only protect margin, but also prevent canabalism in their own channel.

etc.

I have no idea what the LFSs true margin is and it is beside the point here. The simple fact was that brick and mortar retail markup is often (and has to be) more than that of online markup or the brick and mortar can't stay afloat.

Do some retailers price their items far higher than their competitors and some large margin above wholesale? Absolutely!!! It follows, that if they do and their customers accept it, then it was a good business decision.

Let's be careful with the term "price gouging" (not that you used it, but I am sure somebody will). These are not life-safety devices or traded commodities required for survival, etc and there is no requirement for you to buy them. Pricing to what the market will bear (like it or not) is good business and the not against the law or any ethical standards.

 

[mdpitts]

When you see the LFSs wholesale price list, then we can have that conversation but even then, there is no "margin" that is right or wrong. Some items may have a 2000% margin from wholesale and some a -50% margin from wholesale (a loss leader for example).

The problem with trying to compare to other retailers prices is that other retailers may be selling at small or even negative margin for a myriad of reasons.

Ignoring MAP pricing:

1 - Online vendors, especially those who drop ship have far more pricing leeway and can survive on much smaller margins, especially large volume operations.

2 - Other "retailers" may be able to obtain old (near expiration), seconds, returned or otherwise discounted stock (closeouts, fiscal bundles, etc. and therefore sell at significant discounts, often without disclosing. Combine that with the point above and the pricing can be insanely low.

3 - The LFS may not be in the same volume pricing agreement as the "other retailers" who are selling at a lower price.

4 - Some "retailers" may sell at a tiny or negative margin as a loss leader for popular items. Other competing retailers often follow suit, so as not to lose customers to competitors. This downward margin erosion is part of the reason that many manufacturers force MAP pricing on their authorized retailers in an attempt to not only protect margin, but also prevent canabalism in their own channel.

etc.

I have no idea what the LFSs true margin is and it is beside the point here. The simple fact was that brick and mortar retail markup is often (and has to be) more than that of online markup or the brick and mortar can't stay afloat.

Do some retailers price their items far higher than their competitors and some large margin above wholesale? Absolutely!!! It follows, that if they do and their customers accept it, then it was a good business decision.

Let's be careful with the term "price gouging" (not that you used it, but I am sure somebody will). These are not life-safety devices or traded commodities required for survival, etc and there is no requirement for you to buy them. Pricing to what the market will bear (like it or not) is good business and the not against the law or any ethical standards.

All good points. I have lots of experience working at retail stores back in the day and the general rule at most of the places I worked was a 100 percent markup over wholesale. I don’t begrudge a markup but a significant markup bugs me because I’m struggling a little with money lately. Anyway, great input regarding the extra challenges brick and mortar shops deal with. Makes sense why they would price it a little higher.

 

[BeanAnimal]

All good points. I have lots of experience working at retail stores back in the day and the general rule at most of the places I worked was a 100 percent markup over wholesale. I don’t begrudge a markup but a significant markup bugs me because I’m struggling a little with money lately. Anyway, great input regarding the extra challenges brick and mortar shops deal with. Makes sense why they would price it a little higher.

I shop locally when I can, sometimes knowing that I am paying more than a small premium to help keep a good business afloat. We all find and assign value differently. I value local business and personal customer service often more than I value "a good deal". Sometimes it becomes unaffordable of course.

 

[BeanAnimal]

@GlassMunky
So you owned yourself trying to clown me and in light of getting called on it, your response is to follow me around trolling my posts with laughing emojis?

In some circles people would consider your actions bullying, but I don't agree. I think you are entertaining. There isn't a thing that you could do or say that would upset me, but you did get a response... Nothing like a "hospitality award" winner that is a forum troll too... Good for you, your wit is overpowering and your maturity level is a model we should all aspire to achieve.

LoL - priceless.